(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 7 hours ago by Durzel
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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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#16051 1 year ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

It would be nice to have another source for the price of the kit other than one Austrian website

Yeah but then we wouldn't know what the 35 Jahre Nachdem Edition costs, not sure what that means but I want one.

#16052 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

All pricing on Alien in Austria. Pricing on the SE is more or less in line with a Stern Pro over here, 'just' a few 100 EUR more. Pricing includes VAT

Quoted from Rensh:

I double checked and found out that the PDF is different as their Webshop. SE pricing is according to the Webshop:

See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-official-game-thread/page/321#post-3922168 prices already mentioned and compared there

#16053 1 year ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

It would be nice to have another source for the price of the kit other than one Austrian website.

Check here for a list of all distributors and see if they have listed their prices:
http://www.heighwaypinball.com/#distributors

#16054 1 year ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

It would be nice to have another source for the price of the kit other than one Austrian website.

You realize that there's only a single distributor for any country, including the US right? I'm sure that's part of HP's plan to exercise some degree of control over pricing the consumer pays. Which might not be a horrible thing because here in the US you really need to price a new Stern between all the distos less you over pay by $500-$1500.

#16055 1 year ago
Quoted from sed6:

You realize that there's only a single distributor for any country, including the US right?

I'm aware of that. And only one of the countries has any kit pricing listed...

Quoted from PinballRulez:

Check here for a list of all distributors

That's where I noticed that only Austria is in on the Kit pricing
I checked all of them and best I can tell, with the help of google translate...that's it. Hardly seems definitive...I hope at least.

#16056 1 year ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

That's where I noticed that only Austria is in on the Kit pricing
I checked all of them and best I can tell, with the help of google translate...that's it. Hardly seems definitive...I hope at least.

Sorry, missed that it only concerned the kit. Didn't look for that yet. I think the best option left is to drop a mail to CT as it seems they are always straight forward in giving information.

#16057 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

Sorry, missed that it only concerned the kit. Didn't look for that yet. I think the best option left is to drop a mail to CT as it seems they are always straight forward in giving information.

Will do. I emailed Heighway already but maybe CT has the info.

#16058 1 year ago

Let's talk about gameplay. Any audits of average ball time that can be shared etc?

19
#16059 1 year ago

Looks like Heighway posted on Facebook today and production is ramping up!!!

alien heads (resized).jpg

playfields (resized).jpg

aliens (resized).jpg

#16060 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Looks like Heighway posted on Facebook today and production is ramping up!!!

Good to see that parts are coming in.

Still not convinced though that they are in the 'produce 100 Aliens a month stage'. Only a few mostly bare playfields on one station.......

#16061 1 year ago

Ohhh, those heads are just screaming for a custom paint job....

#16062 1 year ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

I'm aware of that. And only one of the countries has any kit pricing listed...

That's where I noticed that only Austria is in on the Kit pricing
I checked all of them and best I can tell, with the help of google translate...that's it. Hardly seems definitive...I hope at least.

There's a price in the UK for an Alien kit, try not to laugh too much. They won't be selling any here.

Untitled (resized).jpg

#16063 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Ohhh, those heads are just screaming for a custom paint job....

In pinball does altering the factory goods increase or decrease the value? Is this treated the same as a mod where something is added, but not altering the actual pin?

#16064 1 year ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

There's a price in the UK for an Alien kit, try not to laugh too much. They won't be selling any here.

Don't get your point. Kits are £2.5k ($3k USD) less than a full machine, and that seems fair. A populated / wired playfield offered at 65% of cost. Exact figure affected by shipping cost, which may be $0 if purchased at same time as full size game ships.

While maybe his is higher than desired, imagine if you were space confined and you buy a full size Alien and 2 future kits over next five years. You can store two kits under the cabinet and swap a game out in 10 minutes. Because you bought 2 kits, you've saved $£5k ($6USD) and avoided pissing off the wife.

It is a good system, but only if Heighway Pinball continues to build and introduce new titles. Otherwise, it is an unrecognized advantage / benefit.

#16065 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

In pinball does altering the factory goods increase our decrease the value? Is this treated the same as a mod where something is added, but not altering the actual pin?

Considered as a mod, alot of people have painted the sparky in their metallica, though im not sure how many have sold with them

Art is subjective and could add or decrease value based on your buyers taste

#16066 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Ohhh, those heads are just screaming for a custom paint job...

Ted what u do with ur private time is ur business and thats fine but................Oh you meant the Xeno heads.

#16067 1 year ago

I was going to be in for both FT and Alien at the old prices. Now, I'm not so interested. Will have to let it play out a while longer and see if they can get a third game in for the collection, and if it is still swappable.

#16068 1 year ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

There's a price in the UK for an Alien kit

Thanks. Didn't see that...their website is cluttered as hell. It does say "£4,165.83 ex. VAT" which would be $5340 USD I assume? They might get takers at the non-VAT price if that's where US pricing lands. At $6500 USD nobody at all will buy one.

I'd take a kit for around $5k USD.

Also, it's not JUST the cabinet that you already have as a kit buyer...it's the entire operating system...all the guts of the game and display(s) minus the playfield which has 3(?) plugs to connect. So, there needs to be a fairly significant discount.

Emailed Cointaker on their price.

If the price is in fact jacked up for the kits they might as well scrap the cabinet design and swap system and become a "traditional" company.

#16069 1 year ago
Quoted from angus:

I was going to be in for both FT and Alien at the old prices. Now, I'm not so interested. Will have to let it play out a while longer and see if they can get a third game in for the collection, and if it is still swappable.

any USD or CAD pricing for kits available?

#16070 1 year ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

I'd take a kit for around $5k USD

That would be the equivalent of 4250 euros. That is a good price for a kit But 5995 euro for a kit as listed now.......no thanks.

#16071 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Let's talk about gameplay. Any audits of average ball time that can be shared etc?

#16072 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

Still not convinced though that they are in the 'produce 100 Aliens a month stage'. Only a few mostly bare playfields on one station.......

Feels like Groundhog Day...

#16073 1 year ago
Quoted from JeffF:

Feels like Groundhog Day...
» YouTube video

#16074 1 year ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

If the price is in fact jacked up for the kits they might as well scrap the cabinet design and swap system and become a "traditional" company.

The whole point of kits is to save expense and space. Expense is a joke now so they should ditch kits. While at it, please return to BW standard cabinet design. The current shallow backbox looks like a toy, and the drilled out cabinet sides are structurally weak. We also know what happens to PF glass.

#16075 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

drilled out cabinet sides are structurally weak.

They are built very well. The cabinet is more sound than a traditional cabinet, especially at the corners. That said, they can do whatever they want if they jack the kit price.

#16076 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

. The current shallow backbox looks like a toy, and the drilled out cabinet sides are structurally weak.

They use a double shell for the cabinet. Strong as a tank! I have a FT and this is by far the strongest and best quality cabinet I have ever owned.

#16077 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Looks like Heighway posted on Facebook today and production is ramping up!!!

Kick ass!

#16078 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

The whole point of kits is to save expense and space. Expense is a joke now so they should ditch kits. While at it, please return to BW standard cabinet design. The current shallow backbox looks like a toy, and the drilled out cabinet sides are structurally weak. We also know what happens to PF glass.

I'm sure they will weigh your personal opinion heavily and follow your advice and totally change their design right as they are finally going into production.

#16079 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Don't get your point. Kits are £2.5k ($3k USD) less than a full machine, and that seems fair. A populated / wired playfield offered at 65% of cost.

It might add up for some people, others not so much. As an operator, I wouldn't want to be paying 65% of a full machine price for something that's not going to be generating any money for me. I get that it'll cut down on downtime, but I'd rather have 2 machines making money, rather than 1 machine that cost 65% more but had its downtime cut by a few hours.

In any case, it's a decision that isn't going to cost HP themselves that much money, the only difference is that they have to design and build the storage/shipping container for the kits.

#16080 1 year ago
Quoted from Procrastinator:

Does VAT come into play for any of the U.K. Customers? I know when I do business in the EU it's always a constant concern as 20% can totally turn a deal upside down. If the old prices were £4800 incl. 20%. VAT, then no wonder they ran out of money.

I don't understand VAT... what VALUE is being added?

#16081 1 year ago
Quoted from bob_e:

I don't understand VAT... what VALUE is being added?

It is a tax added to the value of a product not value added to the tax

You could look at it like this (this is an example): trade businesses buy and sell products. For instance they buy for $100 and they sell for $120. So they add 20 dollar value to the product. Does not matter if they really add value or just put on profit. Over that 20 dollar VAT is charged and has to be payed by the buyer of the product. So essentially VAT is the tax over the added value (or price) of that product, hence Value Added Tax.

#16082 1 year ago

There were other benefits to kits: ease of transport, storage, space, but the pricing was a big component as well.

I have to concede though, that the business Andrew dreamed up years ago is no more. Whatever his plans were, or were based on, went out the window with years of cash burn and no product going out the door, and finally when he left the building.

It is what it is. I hope Alien will stand on its own as a great pinball that can sell at the new price point. I suspect if it was shown for the first time today, it would blow people away, but the market is burned out on hearing about Alien for years now, so that severely compromises the marketing impact they can make.

I'd be curious what the new owner internally have as goals for the company. If someone from there is reading this, I'd suggest this could be addressed in the medium of their choice, just sort of create a video or something outlining the road ahead, and how they see it. It might help with consumer confidence of their products.

#16083 1 year ago

What is the current difference between the LE and Standard pin?

#16084 1 year ago

While everyone is considering pricing and trim and options , you might might want to take a step back and ask :

Can Heighway pinball in it's current form provide fully functioning production machines on a consistent basis ?
Also , can they fix machine with flaws in a timely manner, diagnosing and sending parts when needed?

The Alien Std. at Pocketeers was a Hot Mess of multiple event resets and refusing to take coins. Owners are not happy at this point. 3 days of rebooting the game and waiting for your game to suddenly end had many people frustrated with the game.

One of the resets was tied to starting Ambush, so possibly magnet / head related. The tech had disabled the head , possibly due to discussions with the Heighway team. The owner also reported that he specifically asked them not to send the game unless previous reliability issues had been worked out. Other resets seemed to be tied to tilting.

Great design , great rules , but over and over we see this being rushed out without full testing of components. There are no extra parts lying around or history of problems to even figure out half of the issues that pop up. The owner lost a lot of potential earnings over the three days of the Buffalo Pinball Open and sent a lot of people away with a bad first impression. Not sure why they didn't put a sign on it stating it was hit or miss for a reset.

If you watch the stream that "Bro, do you even pinball" did the game was fully functional with a few odd problems and the head was working even when it should not have been. Wondering if the odd behavior (head grabbing ball during modes and Mother being triggered from a head shot) was linked to the eventual failure of hardware.

I was of the opinion before this to get a game fast instead of waiting and have changed my mind completely.

Of course i would like to have more data. Not sure where other production Alien games have landed , but it would be nice to see hear if there are any issues popping up consistently. The bad part is people are making final determinations of this game based on a flawed example.

On this particular example the playfield was very dark to the point where you could not see the upper flippers very well. Shots were awesome except the upper ramp was hard to hit, due to either upper flipper alignment or power. Pop buimpers are seemingly improved but lack the snappy power of a new stern. Same for slings, they are a bit clunky. Not sure of they gapped switches on this.

So maybe this is a case of one bad apple being put on display for many to gain a rotten attitude about it. I still come away with a feeling of a great game that needs the polish and reliability to become an all-time hit.

If people are out there with a recent game , please report here and i am hoping to see more cases of "I have no issues" instead of my unfortunate experience with the game at Pocketeers. By the time i got there , you would not risk playing multiple players , because you could reset away your money on one ball.

All that being said , i got multiple games (avoiding the head) and enjoyed myself the time that it lasted. It's all been said about being immersive to the theme and having great multiple flipper shots and using all of the playfield to progress through the story. Still we are at the point where the main features (head and magnet) seem to be the problem.

I will try and keep up on the progress of the Pocketeers machine (so we know what the issue was) ; unless someone official wants to pop on and let us know what happened and if this is an isolated incident.

Good luck Heighway.

#16085 1 year ago

Current difference is the art work plus all extras are included with the LE

-1
#16086 1 year ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

Current difference is the art work plus all extras are included with the LE

And what are the extras?

16
#16087 1 year ago

This whole thread is in a Groundhog Day loop.

BEGIN

10 YAY Alien Pinball
20 Everything is fine
30 Look! Parts!
40 What's it cost?
50 That's too much / no it's not
60 Nobody Will by A Kit
70 Kits are dumb / No they are not!
80 Uh Oh When are these actually shipping?
90 Look! Parts!
100 Beacons are too (adjective)! Rabble rabble
110 Panic
120 Everything is Fine
130 Panic

GOTO 10:

#16088 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

It is a tax added to the value of a product not value added to the tax
You could look at it like this (this is an example): trade businesses buy and sell products. For instance they buy for $100 and they sell for $120. So they add 20 dollar value to the product. Does not matter if they really add value or just put on profit. Over that 20 dollar VAT is charged and has to be payed by the buyer of the product. So essentially VAT is the tax over the added value (or price) of that product, hence Value Added Tax.

So no REAL value added, just cost is added.

#16089 1 year ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

While everyone is considering pricing and trim and options , you might might want to take a step back and ask :
Can Heighway pinball in it's current form provide fully functioning production machines on a consistent basis ?
Also , can they fix machine with flaws in a timely manner, diagnosing and sending parts when needed?
The Alien Std. at Pocketeers was a Hot Mess of multiple event resets and refusing to take coins. Owners are not happy at this point. 3 days of rebooting the game and waiting for your game to suddenly end had many people frustrated with the game.
One of the resets was tied to starting Ambush, so possibly magnet / head related. The tech had disabled the head , possibly due to discussions with the Heighway team. The owner also reported that he specifically asked them not to send the game unless previous reliability issues had been worked out. Other resets seemed to be tied to tilting.
Great design , great rules , but over and over we see this being rushed out without full testing of components. There are no extra parts lying around or history of problems to even figure out half of the issues that pop up. The owner lost a lot of potential earnings over the three days of the Buffalo Pinball Open and sent a lot of people away with a bad first impression. Not sure why they didn't put a sign on it stating it was hit or miss for a reset.
If you watch the stream that "Bro, do you even pinball" did the game was fully functional with a few odd problems and the head was working even when it should not have been. Wondering if the odd behavior (head grabbing ball during modes and Mother being triggered from a head shot) was linked to the eventual failure of hardware.
I was of the opinion before this to get a game fast instead of waiting and have changed my mind completely.
Of course i would like to have more data. Not sure where other production Alien games have landed , but it would be nice to see hear if there are any issues popping up consistently. The bad part is people are making final determinations of this game based on a flawed example.
On this particular example the playfield was very dark to the point where you could not see the upper flippers very well. Shots were awesome except the upper ramp was hard to hit, due to either upper flipper alignment or power. Pop buimpers are seemingly improved but lack the snappy power of a new stern. Same for slings, they are a bit clunky. Not sure of they gapped switches on this.
So maybe this is a case of one bad apple being put on display for many to gain a rotten attitude about it. I still come away with a feeling of a great game that needs the polish and reliability to become an all-time hit.
If people are out there with a recent game , please report here and i am hoping to see more cases of "I have no issues" instead of my unfortunate experience with the game at Pocketeers. By the time i got there , you would not risk playing multiple players , because you could reset away your money on one ball.
All that being said , i got multiple games (avoiding the head) and enjoyed myself the time that it lasted. It's all been said about being immersive to the theme and having great multiple flipper shots and using all of the playfield to progress through the story. Still we are at the point where the main features (head and magnet) seem to be the problem.
I will try and keep up on the progress of the Pocketeers machine (so we know what the issue was) ; unless someone official wants to pop on and let us know what happened and if this is an isolated incident.
Good luck Heighway.

My game has the updated Zeno Mech and has no issues whatsoever.
The new software update they are releasing soon seems to add quite a bit of final touches to the game as well.
Never have had any sort of reset issue on my game either.

Pretty nice under the hood construction in my opinion

IMG_4405 (resized).JPG

IMG_4406 (resized).JPG

#16090 1 year ago

Did they ever get all the artists paid?

#16091 1 year ago

This huge price increase is going to kill sales.
This game should have never been built in England.

#16092 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

I suspect if it was shown for the first time today, it would blow people away, but the market is burned out on hearing about Alien for years now, so that severely compromises the marketing impact they can make.

Agree. VERY TRUE. and not just alien. both P3/lexi lightspeed and homepin/thunderbirds have taken something like 4 years from introduction to production. clearly a couple more instances of unanticipated/underestimated difficulties in producing pinballs. a lot of the initial anticipation for these titles is going to be lost when development languishes for so long. P3's failure to present a second game to the traditional pin community during that time didn't help maintain interest either. the majority of new companies appear to be having to reinvent the pinball machine from square one - starting with developing new hardware, then cabinets/modularity, then tooling their own parts/mechs and so on. that's going to take a lot more time than already having those things in place and just designing playfield layouts and writing code.

had they held off presenting anything until their projects were completed, they would have been new and fresh with potentially greater impact. finally reaching production today, while commendable, is 4 year old news because the cat was let out of the bag so long ago.

#16093 1 year ago

They should abandon the whole "kits" idea.

#16094 1 year ago

This one compiles

5 CLS
10 PRINT "YAY Alien Pinball"
20 PRINT "Everything is fine"
30 PRINT "Look! Parts!"
40 PRINT "What's it cost?"
50 PRINT "That's too much / no it's not"
60 PRINT "Nobody Will by A Kit"
70 PRINT "Kits are dumb / No they are not!"
80 PRINT "Uh Oh When are these actually shipping?"
90 PRINT "Look! Parts!"
100 PRINT "Beacons are too YADDA YADDA! Rabble rabble"
110 PRINT "Panic"
120 PRINT "Everything is Fine"
130 PRINT "Panic"
135 PAUSE 1000
140 GOTO 10

11
#16095 1 year ago
Quoted from Join_The_Cirqus:

Pretty nice under the hood construction in my opinion

You say the above then follow it up with a photo of a giant mess of random wires and the main PC being held in place with plumbing hanger strap and it got three upvotes?

Am I taking crazy pills?

#16096 1 year ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

While everyone is considering pricing and trim and options , you might might want to take a step back and ask :
Can Heighway pinball in it's current form provide fully functioning production machines on a consistent basis ?
Also , can they fix machine with flaws in a timely manner, diagnosing and sending parts when needed?
The Alien Std. at Pocketeers was a Hot Mess of multiple event resets and refusing to take coins. Owners are not happy at this point. 3 days of rebooting the game and waiting for your game to suddenly end had many people frustrated with the game.

These are very well thought out points and observations. Read them again and don't take them lightly. FWIW, I was a HUGE supporter of this pin. Then came the false timelines, then the lies, then so on & so on. I bailed and got my refund. (Thank you Cointaker!) What I think will kill it for many other potential Alien customers is the price increase, necessary as it may be. It is now in a different league.
Simply stated, I think this pin was rushed to production-if you can call this 'production' and if you consider 3+ years 'rushed'-but I feel that is the main crux of this pin. Sad, too. because what an awesome theme! But fraught with S O M U C H drama that I'm simply disgusted with it and will probably not look back. I am NOT bashing the pin, just the illegitimacy of it's backstory.

#16097 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Looks like Heighway posted on Facebook today and production is ramping up!!!

From looking at these pics, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that it looks like the same manufacturing line setup, like when Andrew was running things. Really? I still don't see how they can crank out a high volume of pins (100/month) on a line like that. Looks boutique to me. But with the price increases, they probably won't have to build a ton anyway.

It's been what...like 3 months since the new ownership announcement? I still see a ton of uncertainty with this company. Any new buyers jumping in right now (and at these higher prices) are out of their minds IMO. Won't get fooled by playfield parts pics again either. The fact they haven't clearly stated the finalized features of an LE, or shown photos, is just crazy to me. Their product message is still unclear.

Funny that the best thing this pin has going for it is layout design & great code/sounds. Everything else is an uncertainty. Shame. Hope they pull it off long term, but I'm doubtful.

#16098 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

both P3/lexi lightspeed and homepin/thunderbirds have taken something like 4 years from introduction to production.
<snip>
had they held off presenting anything until their projects were completed

At least in the P3's case, had we held off presenting anything until the project was completed, we wouldn't ever have shown it. Being a bootstrapped company and choosing not to fund operations from pre-orders, Multimorphic exists today largely because of the developers who came on board as a result of our showing it in public. So, a bit of a catch-22.

I agree with the overall point though. Now that we're shipping machines and making good on all of our promises, we can stop making new promises and simply design and then sell fun games.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#16099 1 year ago

Agree with gerry but this isnt heighways start up pin. At the very least the production line should be sortedbfrom cuba libre and full throttle. These pictures remind me of the photos wane gillard published of all those troll heads. According to them they should now be building 25 games a week and they couldn't get a snap of that in progress ?

#16100 1 year ago

Remember when JJP was getting the factory ready for WOZ? A lot goes into setting up a production line for pinball machines.

fw_jersey_jacks_pinball_fortune_0185 (resized).jpg
fw_jersey_jacks_pinball_fortune_0365 (resized).jpg
fw_jersey_jacks_pinball_fortune_0644 (resized).jpg

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