(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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#14601 2 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

People wouldn't have to ask for refunds if they had their games. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There's something Dude-like or even Zenish about your thoughts.

25
#14602 2 years ago

Imagine for a moment that you're Andrew Heighway.
You're well into the development of the Aliens pin, and things are coming along, but slower and maybe more expensive that you thought.
You've been 100% forthcoming with info to your clients all the way along. Pictures of the progress and even the first pin rolling off the line and being shipped off to some lucky owner.
Money's running out, but you have a deal in the works to get more financing in place.
Unfortunately, that's also taking longer than you anticipated, and things are now starting to crumble.

You can do what? Be 100% honest? Basically announce to everyone that you're out of cash, and watch as they all demand refunds, immediately forcing you into bankruptcy, before the deal has time to close?
Or do you just do everything it takes to push through with the financing deal, possibly giving away a chunk of your company to someone who never experienced all the blood, sweat and tears that you've already invested. Pushed into a corner, the only way forward, and the only way to get these pins made, and delivered to customers. Stay alive.

So as I often imagine with so many other issues and problems we see, I expect this isn't simply black or white, but very grey.
We saw Andrew document everything and share all the details up until recently. I expect he's honourable, and simply can't operate the way he knows he should. I expect it's been pretty much Hell, trying to hold everything together, not being able to provide the level of customer service that he has been providing up until recently.

Not sure how many of you out there have owned your own business, but I found my whole mental state fluctuated with its success and failures. It's gotta be tough for him right now.

There is no excuse when a company ignores its customers, and/or refuses to answer their calls and emails, especially if they're asking for refunds, or asking for follow-up info on ETA, after missing deadlines.
But if you're Andrew Heighway, and this is what has happened, it certainly explains why communication has changed, and why it really was the best option to take. It also suggests that with any luck and possibly some good news later this week, Andrew will be back on track, answering emails, providing updates, and rolling out some Aliens pins to all you guys who are still waiting for your pins.

The JPOP and Predator fiasco sucked, and made us all a little gun-shy. I don't think this is anywhere near either of those nightmares.

Since Andrew has come on Pinside and provided a little information, and a very short deadline for himself, it only makes sense to continue being patient for a little while longer.

NOTE: I have zero information regarding Andrew, his company, his financial state, or any deals that may or may not be in the works.
I have not sent him any money, nor do I expect to purchase an Aliens pin.
All of this is purely speculation on my part. Up until very recently, I didn't even know what kind of car he drove. : )

#14603 2 years ago

I have nothing vested, and no knowledge, but am grateful for this post.

This part hits home:

Quoted from Chambahz:

Not sure how many of you out there have owned your own business, but I found my whole mental state fluctuated with its success and failures. It's gotta be tough for him right now.

Other Posts are painful.

#14604 2 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

NOTE: I have zero information regarding Andrew, his company, his financial state, or any deals that may or may not be in the works.
I have not sent him any money, nor do I expect to purchase an Aliens pin.
All of this is purely speculation on my part. Up until very recently, I didn't even know what kind of car he drove. : )

you should of started your story with that! & Saved me 5 mins!

#14605 2 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

You can do what? Be 100% honest? Basically announce to everyone that you're out of cash, and watch as they all demand refunds, immediately forcing you into bankruptcy, before the deal has time to close?

People are already demanding refunds. So F yeah, be honest about it. Why? Because you don't want the next guy coming along who has ZERO clue as to what is going on to fully fund a pin without all of the INFO.

That's the kind of BS that i hated with Jpop.

It's ALL, 100% on Andrew.

Make the pins and he's a hero for delivering something awesome. Bottom line, period end of story.

All he has to say is the following:

"I am working on an investor to help fully fund this project and make our company viable for many years into the future"

The guy has a great pin that actually plays, not some major POS after the fact Jpop box of lights.

The reality is NOBODY is getting a refund without a credit card dispute or paypal.

This hobby can be the greatest of times and the absolute F ing worst of times.

I will get "Back in the Saddle" and go try and find Suki Jones

#14606 2 years ago
Quoted from rvdv:

Would it help to start a Gofundme
For Andrew ? Just thinking.
How much you need Andrew ?
Just put some gifts( swag) in return
Or spare parts for Alien;

Indiegogo
I'd buy a LE Backglass for sure!

#14607 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Sorry Manimal but i totally 1000% disagree. That's ok, no biggie.
If I or any other business owner treated our PAID clients or prospective clients this way I'd be out of business so fast it would make your head spin.
This is pinball though so for some reason, people seem afraid to confront the truth. And it's not just Andrew, its Stern, JJP and everybody else except for possibly Spooky.
See little ole Spooky for how to treat a customer and being honest and upfront and setting EXPECTATIONS properly!
And I respect Andrew for acknowledging the deficiencies and hopefully is able to move forward and do great things.
As a Woz customer from day one, Jpop customer from day one and Alien customer from day one, my PATIENCE meter is still ok. Life is too short and plenty of other pins to play in the meantime.

Ice you just made my entire point. YES, you would be out of business so fast it would make your head spin.....BUT, that would be because your customers would exercise the only rights they have, and that would be to stop buying your product. Even though you treated them that way, you would argue to your last breath they have no business in your business........and you can't say you wouldn't, you have far too many posts on this forum for anyone to believe you! lol

As to the Spooky reference...they are great folks for sure, but what they do has absolutely nothing to do with Heighway Pinball, nor does JJ, Stern or JPOP for that matter. I never suggested anyone avoid the truth for anything, I simply pointed out we have no right to demand and make accusations and assumptions about his business.

-1
#14608 2 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

From a legal perspective, a "buyer" who has not yet received either a game or a refund is a creditor.
In the UK, when a company is solvent, there is no reason for directors to consider the interests of creditors. However, when a company is insolvent, the directors must consider creditors in priority to shareholders (West Mercia Safetywear Ltd [in Liquidation] v Dodd [1988] BCLC 250). It is the period in between solvency and insolvency which causes most difficulties - i.e., the "zone of insolvency", aka the "twilight zone".
Source: Director's Duties in the "Zone of Insolvency", Simon Baskerville and Inga West, Ashurst LLP, 6th edition of The International Comparative Legal Guide to: Corporate Governance 2013; published by Global Legal Group Ltd, London (www.iclg.co.uk).
https://ashurstcde.azureedge.net/-/media/ashurst/documents/news-and-insights/legal-updates/2013/jan/cg13_chapter-1_ashurst.pdf

And did I not say "outside of a court of law"? If a court ruling opens up the business for everyone to see, then so be it. But until then, we cannot judge a company insolvent on a bunch of rumors and things posted on forums. I stand by my statement.

#14609 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

and you can't say you wouldn't, you have far too many posts on this forum for anyone to believe you! lol

I'm not sure wtf you are talking about right now manchild and i don't know if i believe myself on anything other than i love pinball!

Btw, its a 2000% given that regardless of planes, trains and automobiles, Heighway pinball is insolvent

And THAT i will stand by Captain Dan!

The worst offense so far is the neglect to support the pins already sold.

#14610 2 years ago

Ok, I'll say it.. Iceman & Manimal ! & Enough boys! Haha..faaak, go play some pinball!! Or sip scotch or smoke a doobie

#14611 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm not sure wtf you are talking about right now manchild and i don't know if i believe myself on anything other than i love pinball!
Btw, its a 2000% given that regardless of planes, trains and automobiles, Heighway pinball is insolvent
And THAT i will stand by Captain Dan!

Sorry Ice, I kind of stated that a little vague. What I meant by the comment is you are very passionate and vocal about your beliefs, and although I don't know you personally, I can judge a little bit from what you post. I doubt seriously you would take kindly to personal attacks and business demands from those customers you pissed off, no matter how right or wrong you were.

And as to insolvent...it's possible, I will admit the evidence points that way....but there isn't one of us that knows for sure. Maybe a family member was sick, or maybe his dog died, or any number of other possible issues......the end result is you have no actual figures to base that assumption on.

#14612 2 years ago
Quoted from Dee-Bow:

Ok, I'll say it.. Iceman & Manimal ! & Enough boys! Haha..faaak, go play some pinball!! Or sip scotch or smoke a doobie

It's all good....I agree with ICE more than not....we are just passing the time and taking you all along on the ride! lol

#14613 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

It's all good....I agree with ICE more than not....we are just passing the time and taking you all along on the ride! lol

Manimal is one of my favorite dudes on here!

#14614 2 years ago

8 hours later and.....you're still at it!!??!

#14615 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

8 hours later and.....you're still at it!!??!

Don't go to sleep yet Wicker!

It's just an interval after a LONG day.

Our brother Andrew better still love it while we actually CARE.

When nobody gives a shit as to what is coming or not, that is when he really better start worrying.

#14616 2 years ago
Quoted from Dee-Bow:

Ok, I'll say it.. Iceman & Manimal ! & Enough boys! Haha..faaak, go play some pinball!! Or sip scotch or smoke a doobie

Quoted from Dee-Bow:

Ok, I'll say it.. Iceman & Manimal ! & Enough boys! Haha..faaak, go play some pinball!! Or sip scotch or smoke a doobie

How about all three?

#14617 2 years ago

I'm all in on an Alien LE.

This machine looks very very good and looks to be a really challenging player. I can't wait to stick it next to my Full Throttle which by the way is very good as well.

Best wishes to Heighway.

Hey Andrew,
Make sure you give all the complainers,on this thread, their game last.
Just kidding everyone. Lol.

#14618 2 years ago

I'll tell you what Hilton, I'm on ASLE and hitting the Brewskies in between and loving pinball my man.

No Doobies BUT its all good.

Yes, Colonel Klank, I'm ok with Andrew giving me my game last! Sargent Schlutz sees nothing and hears nothing.

#14619 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

It's all good....I agree with ICE more than not....we are just passing the time and taking you all along on the ride! lol

I'm not gonna lie, you're a lil easier to follow than all that lawyer talk! Haha, what a shit show this has turned out to be.. from the rubberduk shmuck, delayed announcements, now cointaker! ..i Just want to own this game one day! Dammit! Cheers to you iceman! No le but I did frost the scotch glass!!

#14620 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'll tell you what Hilton, I'm on ASLE and hitting the Brewskies in between and loving pinball my man.
No Doobies BUT its all good.
Yes, Colonel Klank, I'm ok with Andrew giving me my game last! Sargent Schlutz sees nothing and hears nothing.

Haha! You crazy bastage.
ASLE is surprisingly a fun game. I was playing it as well. But let's stay on topic.

I'm deferring all my future posts to Manimal and signing a POA. Illinois short form of course.
Manimal is a good voice of reason on this thread.

#14621 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

Haha! You crazy bastage.
ASLE is surprisingly a fun game. I was playing it as well. But let's stay on topic.
I'm deferring all my future posts to Manimal and signing a POA. Illinois short form of course.
Manimal is a good voice of reason on this thread.

Well I think he's former Law enforcement so I agree, an excellent voice of reason.

#14622 2 years ago

New owners announcement?

#14623 2 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

How did you get that if you did not pre-order? Can you clarify?

similar to what Houdini is doing, and same thing as what we do with Stern. Small deposit to hold a position, balance ONLY paid once game was actually being built and shipping was imminent.

I dont preorder anything anymore.

I have no issue putting down a deposit and actually think more companies should use the Spooky model of a 1k non-refundable deposit to hold position (esp for any limited game). I think it is smart for buisness.

I also think there should be no option to jump a line or pay more to get in front of others. I am not a fan of that model but understand why it is done.

You have to keep in mind that it appears Heighway favors supporting original customers since the first 2 pre-produciton games went out to operators that also owned and put out Full Throttle. I appreciate this and also think it was both fair and smart. Both operators are known to be able to maintain games and keep them running well which is a smart move for any company looking to get more exposure for a game.

I have offered to do the same thing for Houdini and would be happy to be a beta location for your game once it is ready. To me it would make sense since Madison is not too far from you guys and would make tweaks and troubleshooting easy.

#14624 2 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

New owners announcement?

There was a different announcement that has gone missing

#14625 2 years ago

is there a problem with Heighway? Are they having financial problems?

#14626 2 years ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

is there a problem with Heighway? Are they having financial problems?

That is today's speculation

13
#14627 2 years ago

Just spoke with Melissa at Cointaker, and she talked me off the ledge. She couldn't give details, but said everyone will be happy with the announcement.

#14628 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I dont preorder anything anymore.

Um...

Quoted from Whysnow:

I have no issue putting down a deposit and actually think more companies should use the Spooky model of a 1k non-refundable deposit to hold position (esp for any limited game). I think it is smart for buisness.

Isn't that what pre-ordering is?

That's literally the procedure game stores like GameStop use for pre-orders (deposit or full payment).

#14629 2 years ago
Quoted from lapean111:

Just spoke with Melissa at Cointaker, and she talked me off the ledge. She couldn't give details, but said everyone will be happy with the announcement.

everyone only thing I know of that can fit that bill is free money. I'll take a handful please.

#14630 2 years ago

That's what she said.

#14631 2 years ago

Holy cow people, can we just give this a rest for a little bit?

Stop with the rumor, innuendo, accusations, and the "You didn't hear it from me, BUT......."

If you have any questions about the posts from above, go back and read them. Right now there is NOTHING to report, and Andrew does NOT own an RV! lol There may or may not be an announcement coming soon, and people may or may not be happier than they are right now.

#14632 2 years ago

i'd chuckle if its Stern have bought it and all the cry babies who said they'd never buy another Stern suddenly had no choice

*Note: this was a joke*
*Note Just in case: This was a joke*

Cheers,
Neil.

-2
#14633 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Um...

Isn't that what pre-ordering is?
That's literally the procedure game stores like GameStop use for pre-orders (deposit or full payment).

not really. A small% down is not the same as a pre-order IMHO.

Pre-order is what kickstarter does >> pay up front in full and then pray.
Pre-order is what TBL and SkitB did. They took a majority of money up front.

A small deposit is what everyone else (Spooky, Stern, Heighway, Houdini, etc...) do.
I fully understand there is a happy medium between no money till pickup and pre-order. I think the non-refundable small deposit is smart and fair for both the business and the customer when dealing with high end toys in limited production numbers.

Granted, if you dont want to be early, then a customer can just wait it out also. (i.e. I know many that dont buy sterns until they are actively in stock for pickup/shipping and that is by far the smartest thing to do)

#14634 2 years ago

Saw this posted here yesterday and it was gone this morning. Reposting since it's public and relevant

https://www.facebook.com/TopScoreGamerooms/posts/1356461757733095

#14635 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Saw this posted here yesterday and it was gone this morning. Reposting since it's public and relevant
https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1356461757733095&id=120987074613909

it say page doesn't exist?

#14636 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Saw this posted here yesterday and it was gone this morning. Reposting since it's public and relevant
https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1356461757733095&id=120987074613909

dead link FYI

#14637 2 years ago

Link opens fine for me.....

"NOTICE;
Regarding the Alien pinball machine by Heighway Pinball company. We were originally proud to announce when we came to an agreement as a dealer of this incredible looking pinball machine and other future games from this company. We've met with the owner and talk to him many times. The company truly does have a great passion for putting out great games. But since our initial connection and investment with Heighway Pinball the company has struggled to finish producing games and also providing customer service on their previous game, "Full Throttle". Other issues not disclosed also have arose so we have decided to break ties and we are no longer a product dealer/distributor for Heighway Pinball company products at this time. This does not mean we might not revisit getting back together with them in the future but they first must get production, manual/schematic documentation and customer service in a much better place first. We need that support for ourselves and to help supply our customers. They have a unique product there so communication and documentation service and repair is vital
I wish them the best of luck in their growth and production. We hear there is a new announcement coming for some restructuring of their company and hopefully that will go smoothly as well.
Thank you
Troy North and Top Score Gamerooms LLC"

15
#14638 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I think the non-refundable small deposit is smart and fair for both the business and the customer when dealing with high end toys in limited production numbers.

It's still a pre-order, no matter what you try to define it as. I don't care that you do, just pointing out that it's still a pre-order.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-order

From the wikipedia page: "pre-orders were usually placed by providing the vendor with a small percentage of the game's cost to hold their reservation (such as $5 or $10 on a $50 game) with assurances they would receive their copy on release day after paying the remaining balance"

#14639 2 years ago

My guess they have been working balls out and have 100 built ready to ship - and are going to deliver them paratrooper style across various countries... probably not.. Hope the news is good and allows for more games to be built and shipped to eager buyers. Heighway is making a fantastic product, you can tell alot of care and attention to detail that have gone into all parts of the machines.

gg (resized).jpg

#14640 2 years ago

Maybe Andrew got accepted to appear on Shark Tank ?

28
#14641 2 years ago
Quoted from rvdv:

I hope Andrew succeeds but this "hobby" and "funtime" sure turning dark.

Robert - the drama and schenanigans of all the pinball "companies" over the past few years have DESTROYED the joy of buying new games. You've got the scams of Shit-B and Jpop, the attempted scam of Vonnie-D, the current uncertainty of DP (I'm sitting here with my finger up my butt waiting for my hostage Lebowski), Heighway's continual misleads and drama, Stern's greed/arrogance/perpetual code & QC issues, JJP's prices & Spooky's ...well, Spooky doesn't seem to do anything wrong, they just haven't made a game I like lol. Anyway - F all this S, seriously - the pinball world is run by maniac dreamers...I'm out for good. Hopefully something better will rise from their ashes. As I've stepped back, the ridiculousness of spending $7-$8k and waiting for years has become so clearly bonkers. I'm having so much more fun with my $300 Nintendo Switch and games that cost $10-$60 and are playable instantly with no drama. The "new Pinball game" is stupid as F.

13
#14642 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Anyway - F all this S, seriously - the pinball world is run by maniac dreamers...I'm out for good. Hopefully something better will rise from their ashes. As I've stepped back, the ridiculousness of spending $7-$8k and waiting for years has become so clearly bonkers. I'm having so much more fun with my $300 Nintendo Switch and games that cost $10-$60 and are playable instantly with no drama. The "new Pinball game" is stupid as F.

On cue...

Why not do what people did for decades? Enjoy playing and collecting games that already exist?

#14643 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Robert - the drama and schenanigans of all the pinball "companies" over the past few years have DESTROYED the joy of buying new games. You've got the scams of Shit-B and Jpop, the attempted scam of Vonnie-D, the current uncertainty of DP (I'm sitting here with my finger up my butt waiting for my hostage Lebowski), Heighway's continual misleads and drama, Stern's greed/arrogance/perpetual code & QC issues, JJP's prices & Spooky's ...well, Spooky doesn't seem to do anything wrong, they just haven't made a game I like lol. Anyway - F all this S, seriously - the pinball world is run by maniac dreamers...I'm out for good. Hopefully something better will rise from their ashes. As I've stepped back, the ridiculousness of spending $7-$8k and waiting for years has become so clearly bonkers. I'm having so much more fun with my $300 Nintendo Switch and games that cost $10-$60 and are playable instantly with no drama. The "new Pinball game" is stupid as F.

And think how many hours fun you will get from this when it comes out

#14644 2 years ago

RAREHERO .. how can u play Nintendo with all those beauties in your pin collection? I just heard Red say,"time to go to work!"

#14645 2 years ago

RAREHERO...how can you play your Nintendo with one finger up your butt?

#14646 2 years ago

This thread is hilarious, I'm currently unemployed and even I don't have time for this shit lol.

#14647 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

On cue...
Why not do what people did for decades? Enjoy playing and collecting games that already exist?

Yup. The pinball hobby is massively enjoyable without anything new. New is interesting, especially if it's a theme you love...but I'm over it. If I want to enjoy Lebowski, Ghostbusters, or Alien, I'll just watch the movie. For the price of a new pinball machine, you could buy a great HD 3D Projector, screen, 7.1 receiver, speakers, Blu-Ray player, your favorite movies...and STILL have a TON of money leftover.

Quoted from Shapeshifter:

And think how many hours fun you will get from this when it comes out
» YouTube video

OMG, Mario Odyssey looks incredible. Zelda: Breath of the Wild drew me in completely...I put 150 hours into it, and with the upcoming DLC, I'll be diving back in for more!

Quoted from Dee-Bow:

RAREHERO .. how can u play Nintendo with all those beauties in your pin collection? I just heard Red say,"time to go to work!"

I've had most of my games for a long time....so there's an element of "been there, done that". I still play them here and there, but definitely not as much lately. Been playing Mario Kart & Puyo Puyo Tetris with people online...the ARMS Test Punch was this past weekend, and that game is incredibly fun, that'll be eating more of my time when it comes out in a few weeks. Splatoon 2 comes out this summer...so much goodness on Nintendo...and after the price of pinball becoming "normalized" in my life, video games seem practically free.

Quoted from lamihh:

RAREHERO...how can you play your Nintendo with one finger up your butt?

Well, Mario Kart does have options for motion control, auto-accelerate & driver assist...and the Joy-Con is small....hell, I probably could play the game WITH my butt!

#14648 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Robert - the drama and schenanigans of all the pinball "companies" over the past few years have DESTROYED the joy of buying new games. You've got the scams of Shit-B and Jpop, the attempted scam of Vonnie-D, the current uncertainty of DP (I'm sitting here with my finger up my butt waiting for my hostage Lebowski), Heighway's continual misleads and drama, Stern's greed/arrogance/perpetual code & QC issues, JJP's prices & Spooky's ...well, Spooky doesn't seem to do anything wrong, they just haven't made a game I like lol. Anyway - F all this S, seriously - the pinball world is run by maniac dreamers...I'm out for good. Hopefully something better will rise from their ashes. As I've stepped back, the ridiculousness of spending $7-$8k and waiting for years has become so clearly bonkers. I'm having so much more fun with my $300 Nintendo Switch and games that cost $10-$60 and are playable instantly with no drama. The "new Pinball game" is stupid as F.

Well said , well said !!
Been loving pinball forever and since I'm old it's been a long time.
But this shit is gone of the track.

Having more fun with my car collection, keeping it real !!

#14649 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

hell, I probably could play the game WITH my butt!

pics or it did not happen...

#14650 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Robert - the drama and schenanigans of all the pinball "companies" over the past few years have DESTROYED the joy of buying new games. You've got the scams of Shit-B and Jpop, the attempted scam of Vonnie-D, the current uncertainty of DP (I'm sitting here with my finger up my butt waiting for my hostage Lebowski), Heighway's continual misleads and drama, Stern's greed/arrogance/perpetual code & QC issues, JJP's prices & Spooky's ...well, Spooky doesn't seem to do anything wrong, they just haven't made a game I like lol. Anyway - F all this S, seriously - the pinball world is run by maniac dreamers...I'm out for good. Hopefully something better will rise from their ashes. As I've stepped back, the ridiculousness of spending $7-$8k and waiting for years has become so clearly bonkers. I'm having so much more fun with my $300 Nintendo Switch and games that cost $10-$60 and are playable instantly with no drama. The "new Pinball game" is stupid as F.

Hey Rarehero are you selling your machines? I'm looking for a Ghostbusters premium, I know you don't list it but you have one

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