Ok thank you for that answer a lot of us have and it's been starting to get a little weird and this thread doesn't help make me feel warm and fuzzy all over like it did in the beginning. I hope games start getting to where they need to be so we can all share our excitement for this game and change the vibe here.

I requested a refund of my deposit yesterday.

Originally Andrew PM'd me here after reading something I posted about SE shipping times. He was great... we went back and fourth and I was happy with his responses so I sent a deposit. Woot!

Around a month, month in a half ago I was excited and had a Heighway neon sign made so I shot him a message showing it off. Then a few weeks later my son asked if we were still getting the SE in the timeframe Andrew stated so I shot him a quick message about that(again, very nicely worded with excitement bubbling over). Then Pinfest happened and I was absolutely thrilled with Alien! So again I shot Andrew a little message about how awesome the game played and also that I've been into the arcade hobby for 20 years so getting a game that may need attention is no big deal. We just want one!!!

Finally after about a week of sending that message I noticed Andrew hadn't signed onto Pinside since May 5th so I emailed him the last message.

Nothing. No reply to any of those messages. He was quick to message me when I was on the fence with the game. And he went back and fourth for a day with me to put my mind at ease about ordering one.

So I emailed him, Jay, and someone else that was CC'd to my original receipt yesterday. Again, very nice email. Regretful and apologetic even. I don't expect a reply so a PayPal claim will be filled next week(and if that fails, I will open a CC claim).

Really, REALLY like Alien and would love to have one here eventually. Just not at this time due to all the silence... that and there is only so much time you have to file a PayPal claim...

This is why people who have paid a year ago need to get their games and people waiting on LE's need the option to just get a SE at this point and wait for the upgrades. The excitement needs to be backed with some trust that your money is safe. The more people that bailout the harder its going to get for Heighway for sure.

Wonder if not questioned if the user would have ever said he powercoated the legs himself and they were not from the factory?

And lol at regular looking black legs being "Alien black"

EDIT: I see the negative votes but no reply? I admit it was a slight jab and an honest question (will probably go unanswered of course).
FYI I have been in on a LE for a year now just want to see them ship in mass. I honestly don't think I'll get my game until the fall at this point.

Every single LE should have been delivered by now 'as a minimum'.

Screenshot_20170529-004349 (resized).png

Pinball is a rough business for sure. I'm keeping minimal hope for my Alien and TBL but it's getting harder everyday I thought this one was going to be a lot smoother.

So... let me summarize. Feel free to correct when necessary.

You received a "Black" Alien 10 days ago.
Advertise it.
Then accomplish a DIY green trim and install LE side panels.
Show the box as if it was just arrived. As if a second game arrived.
Call it a LE although it has no fiber ramps, no plaque and no specific trim.
Basically, what I see is a regular game with LE side panels, right?
Anything else LE specific?

Yeah...he got the LE translite also. Plus they will be sending the plaque and optics.

He requested it be sent to him this way, so what's the big deal? If I was in on an LE and was given this option I would GRAB it!

Never did I state I recieved a 2nd game or another Game was just delievered.

Im Done posting any further on this current subject, as my posting was intending to provide positive vibes, not this.

If you have any other questions I advise you to reach out to Heighway.

Have a great holiday weekend everyone

Thank you for some sanity!!!
Nail on the head exactly

The whole thing is slim shady

Hoping to get a pin and staying positive is one thing BUT there are so many unanswered questions that are outstanding

Some people make the argument that we shouldn't be entitled to know the inner workings of Andrew's business and the finances associated therewith.

That's crazy talk, he has taken in hundreds of thousands of our $$$, without delivering a product that we paid for (yes that was stupid), and he should be 1000% open and honest about the use of our funds as a fiduciary and the status of OUR products

I thought it was said earlier that the fiber optic ramp lights could only be installed at the factory? If this is not the case I see a lot of LE pre orders wanting to do this.

He was being deliberately vague for a reason. Trying to avoid outright lies without telling the truth. He finally got pushed into a corner and clarified that he indeed did powder coat it himself. He also clearly worked on this with Andrew, since:

1) He had to be sent the bits.
2) He talked about "working with Andrew" on this. Why do you have to 'work with' him when you've just paid for a product, and why do several of these early machines seem to rely on cloak and dagger hush-hush agreements, where the new owner must act as an unofficial PR, and none of whom will disclose either the nature of the agreement or how they came to be selected over others?
3) Andrew e-mailed people yesterday saying that something very positive was happening and it would hopefully be announced the same day (i.e. didn't know when powder would be ready).

Neither of them seem to have thought about this very much before doing it, though. People were asking for PR management ,and honesty with it, yesterday. This is what you get.

Anyway, the first DIY LE 1/??? edition compared to what an LE is supposed to be:

• Gloss Black high finish cabinet - No.

• Beacons – Yes.

• Shaker - ?

• 35th sidepanels - No, Standard. Then sent out later presumably as part of a deal to show an 'LE' off to prove they've shipped .. but seems to have forgotten that people had seen the Standard days earlier, and botched the PR. Oops.

• Backglass - No, Standard. Also marketed as such (backglass), but it's a translite and there is no glass, and sent out later as above.

•Numbered LE placque, as per FTh – No. Handwritten note scrawled on back of backbox with marker pen.

• Green trim (or gloss black / blue) - No. Did green himself. About 2 years after showing first digital mock-ups, and 7 months since full Expo revelation, no official LE trim has been shown yet. N.B. It's just a powder coat.

• Fibre Optics – No.

• Goodie Bag – No (just a hunch).

Aren't they supposed to be printing side panels and possibly translites in house now? Even if not, his game was shipped 2 weeks after the LE translite and panels were shown and approved. Why were other people who wanted to downgrade their LE to a Standard, in order to get it shipped, not offered this? Maybe some others were. Some certainly were not.

If they had the parts and ability to produce any even remotely reasonable number of machines, they'd be sending out higher ticket price LEs (the additional parts cost of which is dwarfed by the price delta). Full machines. Not smoke and mirrors like this. Especially as his was supposed to be the first 'final' machine, with working Xeno, and hence hardware done.

He requested it to be sent that way because like everybody else NOBODY wants the musical chairs to end and be the ones in limbo like Dutch Pinball.

And i don't believe there is any rhyme or reason as to why or who gets a pin shipped first. Cash in hand is king, like JJP Woz days.

That's what was said, but its hard to install them when they haven't even been ordered yet.

Can anyone confirm an email about positive things happening? I can't get an answer to simple questions.

You know, I was perfectly prepared for a reasonable, straightforward and honest explanation when I asked a question last night. I awoke to an absolute shit show where you were going out of your way to avoid answering basic questions and concerns, and thereby allow people to be misled. It hadn't even occurred to me that you would have powder coated it yourself btw - and would then try as hard as you could to avoid clarifying that point.

You also appear to be attempting to vote brigade.

How could anyone possibly believe this was your motivation? You knew the effect your initial posts would have (particularly without explanation).

As Whysnow immediately chimed in, "Looks like this confirms First LEs shipped in May." 95% of people viewing or reading probably wouldn't have even realised that it was the same Standard you received a short time before.

So not an LE. Not LE trim (powder was his own job). If first LEs shipped in May, this is not one of them.

You (Cirqus) said in your initial post that you were getting the thread back on track. Ironically, not the track you intended.

I find Cirqus' actions disingenuous to say these least. Rubberducks said it much better than me.

I could be totally wrong, but until Andrew breaks his silence & comes back on here and clears things up, there's going to be uninformed speculation.

I can ask the source if it's ok to post it. But I suspect they won't want to be identified. I'm sure others received it, but if they were individually written rather than templated, that would allow identification.

Come on, you know posting "the first LE" was going to get a ton of attention and questions. You handled it very poorly and avoided answering questions. None of that is positive and just comes off as shady and bragging.

I didn't receive it, nor have i gotten an answer to my recent PM's to Andrew, but I was only one of the first ones to put a deposit down years ago (stupidly)

Seems there is a bunch of selective communication going on right now.

Around July/August of LAST YEAR, Andrew was asking for payments because "your games, including the LE's, were ready for production", meaning ordering parts etc.

Now we find out almost a year later almost NOTHING related to the LE has been "ready for production", except for the LE artwork and a source has claimed that he hasn't even been paid for his services.

Mark post #9285 by Andrew that Falcon punch displayed. Read it again and think about what it says.

"100 LE games are scheduled for January and every month thereafter as a minimum"

Granted, this was the standard line on a rolling 30 day basis BUT knowing what we know and what has actually occurred, what would any reasonable person think about the STATE OF MIND when he kept saying those things?

I freely admit to being fairly new to the world of pinball collecting, but I've been part of other hobbyist, collector, and enthusiast communities for many years and this is the first place I've run into this kind of attitude, where thousands of dollars can be laid on the line without demanding even the least bit of accountability from the recipient.

This isn't Apple or General Motors we're talking about here. "The President" is one of just a couple of guys in the whole operation...unless he wants to hire a PR or social media rep then yeah...he's the mouthpiece. Maybe a lot of pinheads have Oprah levels of disposable income where it doesn't matter whether of not it disappears into the ether, but I'd think people who fully-paid thousands upfront for the machine deserve at bare minimum regular updates from the company.

I seem to remember that they had a problem with Xeno boards and revised a couple things after that post, hence the delay.

But, by all means, everyone get back in your circle and open fire.

Maybe after you guys convince everyone to cancel I'll be able to grab a playfield kit sooner.

You are now the SECOND FTh owner that I know about who has had a non-working game for MONTHS.
WTF? Zero support from Heighway. That is, "support", but not enough to fix the games.
How is this not front-page news and a SEVERE warning sign for anyone considering sending money for an Alien?
I mean, sending cash to Cointaker if they had the pin in stock is one thing, but this is a whole other risky venture.
Good luck fellas.

I thought I read this too.

People need to calm down. Asking for a refund this late when they are starting to ship is stupid. Give me a break. I've been waiting 3 years for his machine. I waited 3 years for WOZ. If you want a machine fast buy Stern and wait 3 years for code. Pick you poison. Lol

Wow your game looks awesome. I don't know how I missed the photos, thanks!

It wasn't just that post. He was saying the same thing right after expo knowing full well it isn't true

And NEVER will be true. Yet we suspend all disbelief here.

When you watch what Stern and JJP go through to get a pin ready to ramp, and they actually have the employees, parts and equipment, how can anyone in their right mind believe production will be anything more than Spooky level?

Think about that, Spooky is kicking ass and they are just now getting to pin 275 on RZ

BUT they have MUCH less overhead and haven't spent years getting pins out

You take people's money, live on said funds for several years and then wind up with no funds left because it all went to fixed overhead. What a F ing surprise that is

Heighway isn't some special case that can defy the laws of business

And despite the Porsche Cayenne he just bought I don't think he's independently wealthy

The more people that ask for refunds the quicker this is going down the Predator route

Please keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times.

I got my refund back from Cointaker about a week ago.
Melissa was Great to deal with as usual! My CC was credited within 48 hours of my refund request.
I'm going to sit back and see how this all plays out. If Cointaker has machines for sale,new in the box at Allentown next year I will probably leave with one. I'm Sick and tired of this preorder BS.

People wouldn't have to ask for refunds if they had their games. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Spooky doesn't drive a Porsche or make wild claims and throw parties. Something for these new companies to look at. Hell Stern is a giant and makes the customers pay for the parties. Wake up and get your shit together and make and send games or deal with the fact people will want out faster than the money came in. What does Aulrich have to say about this project now. Just curious about a lot of things nowadays.

If that happens, there is only one person to blame and I'm not talking about the people asking for full payment or deposit refunds.

So I just went to PayPal to see what the actual claims procedure was. The first part of it is "establishing email communication" so I figured what the heck, I'll do that.

Well shit on a shingle...

PayPal instantly came back with they are "no longer able to communicate with Heighway Pinball" so they took me right to the actual claim form.

This don't look good...

[edit]
Ok, now I went to the claim details page and it looks like PayPal must have some way of communicating since they said they are waiting to hear back from Heighway Pinball. If they don't hear back by June 7th they will move forward(hopefully that means initiate the refund).

Looks like they skipped over the "Dispute" and the "Escalation" steps.

This is an excellent point. I mean seriously, and I'm not trying to be obstructive here, but how many games has Heighway built? Total Full Throttles & Aliens combined? Im guessing it's less than 300. I've always thought the same thing looking at their factory videos. Looks like a garage boutique setup, not a large production line setup like Stern or JJP. I think the 100 games per month estimate was always overly ambitious.

This dumper fire speculation is out of control. Time to come forward Andrew.

Uh-oh

This game has always sounded great and looks great. Just need to get them out and more orders will come instead of this sky is falling. Andrew needs to put a stop to this fire before it turns into a out of control wild fire that will burn him and his dream to the ground.

You seemed to be labouring under the delusion that I specifically tried to clarify the legalities of vis-a-vis solvency yesterday, whilst being worried about your order. I tried to offer you some advice privately.

I haven't e-mailed you at all, either, and after an initial brief message, I simply replied to your responses. You expressed much greater doubt about HW and the situation than you publicly did here, remember. Do as you wish.

I've heard the number 76 for Full Throttle thrown around by several people, but I'm not sure of the source. Under 100 Full Throttles in any event.

Funny enough I have two friends that one because 7 or 8 of them were sold at TPF back in 2016 so there are a lot near me. It's a fun game with unique geometries and a cool layout. The theme isn't my cup of tea, but it's a cool game.

Probably a good move on your part. Appreciate the pics and reconfirmed my desire for the LE, with green armor ( which I have skin in, but irrelevant). Don't ever be ashamed to show off a machine, regardless of how " finished it was" when you got it. Certainly the best visual I've seen regarding this model to date.

Seems there was another standard delivered to a home just before these pics were posted. It's slow going ( probable cash related, but I don't know that for a fact..could be resource, manpower, etc.). I do know I want one, and am happy he shared his with us. The rest will just happen.....feels like a lot of moving pieces in play here.

I'm going to take a nap.....just looked out the window....the sky isn't falling, just a dreary day.

...or waited for games to exist before coughing up deposits. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯