(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 20 hours ago by Durzel
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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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#13451 2 years ago
Quoted from racer_x:

Kind of like Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, and Prometheus?

Those weren't amazing movies, but they also aren't...

download (resized).jpg

#13452 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Seems like you are going off the rails a bit, no offense.
Anything is possible I suppose, but as a Heighway customer I'm confident things will get moving. They are a new company, not Stern. It would be a major collapse for Alien to actually NOT happen at this point. Is that your contention?
Everything in life takes a bit of trust.
You'll either get your refund back or you won't. People will get their games or they won't. The world keeps on turning for now. I'm loving my Full Throttle and I trust I'll be able to get an Alien game kit at some point.
Bottom line, after all this static being broadcast here, the most likely answer is their production is starting slow. That's it. I would calm down and appreciate your health and that the sun still rises.

Probably!

But the idea of myself or others not getting their refund back bother me a lot, not sure I can let that "just go".

I think it's a great game and theme I really do. I do want them to actually ship the game. I do want them to succeed but not at the expense of others.

Every business I've ever been a part of and every company I've interacted with that I've had good experiences with was honest about what was going on and didn't ignore customers.

-3
#13453 2 years ago

Just curious. Does anyone know who the investors are? We know about JJP, American Pinball, etc. Who is keeping staff and employees paid all this time? Who is paying for lease equipment, factory rent, overhead, etc. Parts?

They have to be over $600k in, right?

#13454 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Just curious. Does anyone know who the investors are? We know about JJP, American Pinball, etc. Who is keeping staff and employees paid all this time? Who is paying for lease equipment, factory rent, overhead, etc. Parts?
They have to be over $600k in, right?

Public financials from December 2016 showed roughly $480k that was due to be repaid by March 2017 if memory serves.

#13455 2 years ago

I would guess that most the staff is comprised of contract or temporary workers, right? You have your core that are full-time, but the rest come in and they staff up during actual production.

#13456 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Public financials from December 2016 showed roughly $480k that was due to be repaid by March 2017 if memory serves.

That was 480 pounds, right?

#13457 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

That was 480 pounds, right?

Yes sorry, not USD.

#13458 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Yes sorry, not USD.

Seems like you didn't do you homework and just jumped in head first a couple weeks ago...it took me about 45 days to get my refund from my initial email to Heighway...your gonna be waiting

-5
#13459 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Who is keeping staff and employees paid all this time? Who is paying for lease equipment, factory rent, overhead, etc. Parts?

And what, WHAT do they serve in the Heighway Cafeteria!?!? Probably all Lobster and T-bones.

#13460 2 years ago
Quoted from kidchrisso:

Seems like you didn't do you homework and just jumped in head first a couple weeks ago...it took me about 45 days to get my refund from my initial email to Heighway...your gonna be waiting

I did not know about the financials, whether it's true or there's another side to it, it is what it is. Otherwise I had been reading/following for awhile and I believed the hype and message being communicated. That's on me.

Regardless, the issue is that several people are waiting for refunds, and only by my posting on here have any of us gotten any traction. So in that regard i'm happy to help those requesting refunds.

19
#13461 2 years ago

I am in with Cointaker, and am willing to wait. Pinside is way to quick to bring out the torches.

16
#13462 2 years ago
Quoted from lapean111:

I am in with Cointaker, and am willing to wait. Pinside is way to quick to bring out the torches.

That's easy to say when your money is in with someone that you know will give you a timely refund...

#13463 2 years ago

Distributors were an option for everyone in the usa at least. If people really are so tired of being trusting and getting burned, then they should go through a trusted distributor next time.

I still trust that Heighway will get these done, but am happy to have the extra security if not.

#13464 2 years ago
Quoted from PinBackpacker:

That's easy to say when your money is in with someone that you know will give you a timely refund...

I know it is not ideal, but waiting 60 or 90 days is a whole lot better than getting nothing at all. Just ask the folks in the JPOP thread. Again, I am not saying you don't have a complaint....the ideal situation is that you would get your money back tomorrow. I have no idea how it became commonplace to just throw money at someone who says they are going to build us a machine, but with all that has happened lately, my sincere hope is that the practice of pre-paying is finished in the pinball world. These games cost far too much for working folks to risk.

#13465 2 years ago

Its uk law that we "don’t have an automatic right to get money back if you just change your mind about something you've bought and there’s nothing wrong with it.
It’s the same no matter how expensive the item was - it’s really down to the seller whether they offer you anything."

However in order for a refund to happen you actually have to have recieved the item hence the 14 day cooling off period which starts when you have gained possesion of the item, one you have told the seller you want a refund then you have to return the item in 14 days after mentioning. Yet as soon as the deposit was sent you essently signed a legally binded contract and the seller has the right to decline a refund or not.

#13466 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Wondering again, why people are bailing out when production is just starting? Why did you wait this long and then suddenly, when games start to trickle out decide I need my money back ASAP?

This seems weird to me too. They've now produced about 2 dozen games which are making it to shows and private collectors, as well as being put out on location. They are working out a few problems before ramping up to full production. It seems like while behind schedule, things are happening and people are about to get their games in the next few months.

#13467 2 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

This seems weird to me too. They've now produced about 2 dozen games which are making it to shows and private collectors, as well as being put out on location. They are working out a few problems before ramping up to full production. It seems like while behind schedule, things are happening and people are about to get their games in the next few months.

Not sure why this is so weird. Don't you think it's possible that someone's financial situation has changed in 2 1/2 years time? Or maybe some people have seen the videos of gameplay and have decided it's not a game they want after all? Or maybe people have heard rumors of Heighway Pinball's financial future and are nervous to move forward with them? Or...or...or....lots of possibilities why someone may request a refund. It doesn't matter what the reason is. I think the more pertinent question would be why Highway Pinball is not refunding people in a timely fashion, and in some cases completely ignoring refund requests?

17
#13468 2 years ago

Heighway needs to make machines to get the money that is tied up with Cointaker. For that they need parts. Because of the bad reputation Pinball companies have gotten because of the companies that went under or were bad at fulfilling the bills, parts must be paid for in advance. So that costs money. Refunds also cost money. What would you choose to pay if you were serious in building up a company that can produce and deliver pinball machines ? Ask yourself that.

My opinion: if people here are yelling that the financial situation at Heighway is bad, it probably will be a self fulfilling prophecy. More buyers will back out and the flow of money will stop. More people will be yelling their refund does not get paid back and even more people will want to back out.

As nice it would be to think that these startup companies will not touch our preorder money, it is just BS. Again: ask yourself what you would do. They need the money to keep the lights burning. Attracting money in other ways just is way to expensive or maybe even impossible. Furthermore I like to think think that Heighway is actually the most eager to get production running and deliver these things. Only way to keep in business as the monthly costs have to be paid every month.

I am paid in full for an LE since 2015 and there is no doubt in my mind that Andrew wants to deliver my machine. Way to much drama here and I suggest if you do not have the stomach for waiting a long time or do not have this money as disposable income, please do not preorder. By asking for a refund you are killing the startup as they count on that money to make the things WE want. You cannot say: oh I am a big supporter of XXXX and then ask for a refund. You are then the opposite of a supporter.

To be clear: this is just my opinion and thoughts, I am just one of you all, a customer that is eagerly awaiting his toy.

#13469 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballgeek:

Its uk law that we "don’t have an automatic right to get money back if you just change your mind about something you've bought and there’s nothing wrong with it.
It’s the same no matter how expensive the item was - it’s really down to the seller whether they offer you anything."
However in order for a refund to happen you actually have to have recieved the item hence the 14 day cooling off period which starts when you have gained possesion of the item, one you have told the seller you want a refund then you have to return the item in 14 days after mentioning. Yet as soon as the deposit was sent you essently signed a legally binded contract and the seller has the right to decline a refund or not.

Whilst that is true, there is this section on the Heighway Pinball terms & conditions:

Before receipt of goods, if you have not received your item then your money will be refunded, minus transaction fees, within 21 days of receiving the written cancellation instruction.

That says to me that they should be getting their refund within 21 days, not 60. Note that this only applies to EU residents, though.

http://www.heighwaypinball.com/terms-and-conditions/

As mentioned before, this is only 5 refunds we are talking about out of an order book of hundreds. If they can't afford to refund such a paltry amount (in comparison), it makes me wonder.

#13470 2 years ago

Jesus Christ. Andrew comes on here today with an update for customers. States SE games are shipping, while not as fast as they'd like, but they are catching up on their backlog. They've had unexpected issues with design, but important changes have been implemented, for the benefit & future reliability of their product. And that LE production is on the horizon, and they are doing their best to meet their obligations to customers as fast as they can.

So how do some in this thread respond to this seemingly genuine update? With mud slinging, conspiracy theories, and unfounded speculation. With all this bullshit, it's amazing Andrew posts anything in this thread at all. I know I wouldn't, like most of the other manufactures out there.

To the small minority who are unhappy with the current practices of Heighway, I suggest you let this be a lesson to you. As it's been stated a million times before.......Don't place deposits & don't pre-order if you can't handle it. Go pound some sand. Seriously. This is the exact same shit we were hearing when JJP had delays & production problems with TH. It took me around 60 days to get my Hobbit $8K refund. Did I freak out when I went weeks without hearing anything? No I was patient & the refund eventually came.

I honestly believe the silent majority of Heighway customers are slightly disappointed with the current state of production, but also are content because we love the product & ultimately have faith in this company. Are they cash strapped? Maybe. Is the sky falling? Not from where I'm standing.

#13471 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

Jesus Christ. Andrew comes on here today with an update for customers. States SE games are shipping, while not as fast as they'd like, but they are catching up on their backlog. They've had unexpected issues with design, but important changes have been implemented, for the benefit & future reliability of their product. And that LE production is on the horizon, and they are doing their best to meet their obligations to customers as fast as they can.

So how do some in this thread respond to this seemingly genuine update? With mud slinging, conspiracy theories, and unfounded speculation.

Dude, are you f'n blind? You listed all the positive things he said, but kinda forgot the elephant in the room.. you know, the part about refunds delayed for 60 days? THAT is the source of speculation, theories and yes, mudslinging. Oh, and the lack of actually shipped games. What Heighway is doing now is not normal, and a pretty good sign his company is in financial trouble. I certainly do not want him to fail... I want to buy an Alien. But to ignore obvious signs of financial difficulty would be irresponsible. And then you get fanbois like yourself who get all pissy when people point out the obvious....

Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

As it's been stated a million times before.......Don't place deposits & don't pre-order if you can't handle it.

I think they're handling it OK. Sounds like *you* can't handle criticism of your favorite pinball company?

#13472 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Sounds like *you* can't handle criticism of your favorite pinball company?

Now we're in to playground time...gotta love the interweb!

What's next? naa na na naaa na? Keyboard commandos...

#13473 2 years ago

I remember the same back and forth just like this with WOZ.
It's nice we have this forum to fanboi or complain. I've gotten the attention of PPS on here after getting no response through email. Pinside whoop.

#13474 2 years ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Heighway needs to make machines to get the money that is tied up with Cointaker. For that they need parts. Because of the bad reputation Pinball companies have gotten because of the companies that went under or were bad at fulfilling the bills, parts must be paid for in advance. So that costs money. Refunds also cost money. What would you choose to pay if you were serious in building up a company that can produce and deliver pinball machines ? Ask yourself that.
My opinion: if people here are yelling that the financial situation at Heighway is bad, it probably will be a self fulfilling prophecy. More buyers will back out and the flow of money will stop. More people will be yelling their refund does not get paid back and even more people will want to back out.
As nice it would be to think that these startup companies will not touch our preorder money, it is just BS. Again: ask yourself what you would do. They need the money to keep the lights burning. Attracting money in other ways just is way to expensive or maybe even impossible. Furthermore I like to think think that Heighway is actually the most eager to get production running and deliver these things. Only way to keep in business as the monthly costs have to be paid every month.
I am paid in full for an LE since 2015 and there is no doubt in my mind that Andrew wants to deliver my machine. Way to much drama here and I suggest if you do not have the stomach for waiting a long time or do not have this money as disposable income, please do not preorder. By asking for a refund you are killing the startup as they count on that money to make the things WE want. You cannot say: oh I am a big supporter of XXXX and then ask for a refund. You are then the opposite of a supporter.
To be clear: this is just my opinion and thoughts, I am just one of you all, a customer that is eagerly awaiting his toy.

Self fulfilling prophecy is right. Especially with some acting like they know orders with suppliers, company financials, etc. it's pretty clear for financial stability they are using preorder money. If things are as dire as some think then the thing to do is let it ride, because sabotaging yourself and having a mass influx of people demanding refunds will do nothing to get payments back. You're in now, for better or for worse.

-2
#13475 2 years ago

Alright, no more photoshops

#13476 2 years ago

I don't have favorite companies. I am not some mountaintop shouting fanboy. If you knew me, you would know this.

A fan of certain themes? You bet. A fan of specific designers & programmers? Absolutely. I enjoy pinball period.

Not sure what to tell you. Some just love to act like they know everything, or just flat out love to stir the pot. It's been seen countless times in thousands of threads before. Once again, here comes the chicken little bullshit, because production isn't happening fast enough, or the refunds are taking too long. (shrugs)

Agree to disagree. My glass is always half-full.

#13477 2 years ago

Theres a few unnamed Devils stirring the Pot too....

13
#13478 2 years ago

You want a conspiracy theroy? I wonder how many put in money with no intention of ever buying and the express purpose of pulling out to make the company fail.
Ive been in since it was announced and have no intentions of pulling out.
Chil and wait ,pull out , i give a shit just STFU.
-Jeff

#13480 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballgeek:

Its uk law that we "don’t have an automatic right to get money back if you just change your mind about something you've bought and there’s nothing wrong with it.
It’s the same no matter how expensive the item was - it’s really down to the seller whether they offer you anything."
However in order for a refund to happen you actually have to have recieved the item hence the 14 day cooling off period which starts when you have gained possesion of the item, one you have told the seller you want a refund then you have to return the item in 14 days after mentioning. Yet as soon as the deposit was sent you essently signed a legally binded contract and the seller has the right to decline a refund or not.

only if the item is actually delivered, then the cooling period starts. Up to the point of delivery you can get your money back under any circumstances without question.

#13481 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

....So how do some in this thread respond to this seemingly genuine update? With mud slinging, conspiracy theories, and unfounded speculation. With all this bullshit, it's amazing Andrew posts anything in this thread at all. I know I wouldn't, like most of the other manufactures out there.....

Although posting while soliciting the pre-orders is par for the course. These problems are a product of Heighway's failures to deliver as said. It's not like you get to take a bunch of peoples money and then say, "fuck you meanies for being mad at me for bullshitting you."

Everyone wants success here. These boutique threads are a lesson for anyone interested in learning how customer service and project management are done. By doing the opposite of what you see here. Notice that no specific details are given on the holdup... I know, I know.. pinball is hard.

All this FUD would disappear if only there were pictures of the trucks being loaded. That's all anyone has been asking for.... to see actual shipments.. And I think it's a reasonable request.

#13482 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Just curious. Does anyone know who the investors are? We know about JJP, American Pinball, etc. Who is keeping staff and employees paid all this time? Who is paying for lease equipment, factory rent, overhead, etc. Parts?
They have to be over $600k in, right?

Is that you Kaneda borrowing Ted's login? I wonder what an IP address comparison would show...?

#13483 2 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

All this FUD would disappear if only there were pictures of the trucks being loaded. That's all anyone has been asking for.... to see actual shipments.. And I think it's a reasonable request.

Seeing trucks being loaded would not stop anything. Heighway has shown pics of some games going out, and that stopped nothing. It made things worse. He has also publicly stated today that they are not up to mass production yet, so no matter what happens, there will be no pics of full trailers for a while. Those that are going to complain are going to do so no matter what....... It's Pinside!

#13484 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Seeing trucks being loaded would not stop anything. Heighway has shown pics of some games going out, and that stopped nothing. It made things worse. He has also publicly stated today that they are not up to mass production yet, so no matter what happens, there will be no pics of full trailers for a while. Those that are going to complain are going to do so no matter what....... It's Pinside!

They should make a concerted effort to ship some games (right away) to some Pinsider's. That way Pinsiders get to actually see and hear about games showing up. That would buy them a little more time...hell it would probably even bring in more cash.

#13485 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

They should make a concerted effort to ship some games (right away) to some Pinsider's. That way Pinsiders get to actually see and hear about games showing up. That would buy them a little more time...hell it would probably even bring in more cash.

Except those games would not be finished, or have some latest part, and the Pinsiders would be all up on the boards screaming how they got taken and how they want their games fixed right now or a full refund, etc. This is a no-win for Heighway, and he is concentrating on getting changes made and a production line going, which is exactly what he should be doing. Those still in the wait for a game need to have a little more patience. We have seen more of the game over the last couple of months than has been shown for almost 2 years, so as long as they can stay solvent, they have to be close.

#13486 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Except those games would not be finished, or have some latest part, and the Pinsiders would be all up on the boards screaming how they got taken and how they want their games fixed right now or a full refund, etc.

Nope - if any Pinsider got the game I took home from TPF, he'd be on here singing it's praises. ...I'll bet on that.

#13487 2 years ago

We have all seen the joy of releasing a game with issues in GB.

Andrew has acknowledged a board issue being remanufactured.

No one wants a game with flaws, customers or manufacturers.

Why not be patient just a little further?

(I do agree that if you ask for a refund, even if you were informed 30 days, etc, its communication and needed)

#13488 2 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

Nope - if any Pinsider got the game I took home from TPF, he'd be on here singing it's praises. ...I'll bet on that.

Oh I agree that it is going to be a good game, but does your Alien head work? Aren't you waiting on a replacement board? Can you imagine the impatience of a bunch of Pinsiders waiting on that or any other part?

#13489 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

We have all seen the joy of releasing a game with issues in GB.
Andrew has acknowledged a board issue being remanufactured.
No one wants a game with flaws, customers or manufacturers.
Why not be patient just a little further?
(I do agree that if you ask for a refund, even if you were informed 30 days, etc, its communication and needed)

HA! Sucker. You've been fooled in to thinking you can make sense and be reasonable on the internet. I'm flagging your post!!!

#13490 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Can you imagine the impatience of a bunch of Pinsiders waiting on that or any other part?

I certainly empathize with the impatience of those who have paid in part or in full for this game. It truly is a dream theme for me, and I'm sure for many others as well.

Quoted from Manimal:

Oh I agree that it is going to be a good game, but does your Alien head work? Aren't you waiting on a replacement board?

Mr. Xeno is in a coma at the moment. I am waiting on the new xeno board. Andrew and I talked about this in person, face to face at TPF. I expect to get this board, and honestly, I am in no hurry. It doesn't impact game play in any way. When Ambush multi-ball starts, the magnet in front of the xeno still grabs the ball. All lights go out, and Bill Paxton screams "what do mean they cut the power, they're animals"...or other variations..and gameplay continues. ...it's awesome. Sure, it will be SO COOL when the xeno eats the ball with strobes all going off...but that's only cosmetic, and such a small part of the overall game.

IMG_1996 (resized).JPG

IMG_1997 (resized).JPG

-9
#13491 2 years ago

I've been watching this thread a while and all I can say is I feel for those who got sucked into the hype. Best to stay calm & cross your fingers you get your game or refund. Good luck fellas

#13492 2 years ago

Show me a fully functioning production Alien SE.

#13493 2 years ago

It seems that if some games other than the 3 from the show and whysnows have shipped that there would be pics or reviews. I understand that not all pinballers are on pinside but surely if someone had one and wasnt on this site SOMEONE he knows would have posted a pic or at least state " hey my buddy got his Alien" ... but nothing..from anybody???

#13494 2 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

It seems that if some games other than the 3 from the show and whysnows have shipped that there would be pics or reviews. I understand that not all pinballers are on pinside but surely if someone had one and wasnt on this site SOMEONE he knows would have posted a pic or at least state " hey my buddy got his Alien" ... but nothing..from anybody???

I too find it odd that no one else has chimed in stating they've received their Alien.

Still really looking forward to the game, but I won't be putting any money down for one till they're on the line and shipping out consistently. Still seems like a gamble at this stage coming from a new company.

#13495 2 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

Ive been in since it was announced and have no intentions of pulling out.
Chil and wait ,pull out , i give a shit just STFU.
-Jeff

Ditto....weird how a handful paid in full to get in front, then bailed, all the while knowing Andrew was trying to put out the best end product ( which always trumps delays, i.e. WOZ) and issues arose. Issues = cash, and while I'd like to believe the 1/3,1/3,1/3 model ( a good one), its more realistic that initial, landmark pins like this barely break even, due to the unforeseen costs incurred ( and impossible to put a real metric on).

These games will get out, and/ or refunds will be given, but the pace for both will be influenced by cash flow...is what it is.

Not defending Andrew ( don't believe he needs to be), but his willingness to continue posting speaks volumes of him wanting to make everyone whole ( regardless if you're sticking it out for a great game, or bailing).

Those that think posting on here are truly making a difference on a personal matter are well.....wrong.

Just buckle in and wait for your chosen course on this one....I'm not moving....the machine is an absolute grail for me...

#13496 2 years ago
Quoted from Taygeta:

I too find it odd that no one else has chimed in stating they've received their Alien.

My guess is these are hitting local customers on his side of the pond, and yes, there are substantial people that buy these things that don't post here ( can't say I blame them, actually)....

#13497 2 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

It seems that if some games other than the 3 from the show and whysnows have shipped that there would be pics or reviews. I understand that not all pinballers are on pinside but surely if someone had one and wasnt on this site SOMEONE he knows would have posted a pic or at least state " hey my buddy got his Alien" ... but nothing..from anybody???

Read Andrew's posts. He has said where games have gone. I don't recall him saying any others have gone out to U.S. yet. The games you mentioned went out then they got feedback and have changed a couple things and are starting to assemble.

There's no mystery.

#13498 2 years ago

How do I get outa this chicken-shit outfit?

18221834_10154537845643443_7848461621143516523_n (resized).jpg

#13499 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

He has said where games have gone

Yes...he *said* where they went, just seems odd that not ONE of these mystery games has been seen..

#13500 2 years ago

This game looks amazing, total dream theme for me. If I had the cash I would purchase one when they are readily available and no other way. You tell me when you have one available and then you can take my cash.

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