(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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#1301 3 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

a game that has had ZERO visually revealed!

So we have to do it ourselfs, yeah!
alien_spinners.jpg

#1302 3 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

not sure...I know the second LCD is an upcharge (which I approved), but can't speculate beyond that...I'm sure Andrew will provide clarity...might be better to directly ask him....he's always been quick and forthcoming w responses......

Did you contact Heighway about it? Or did you get an email from them? I've received nothing from Heighway on the matter.

#1303 3 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

Did you contact Heighway about it? Or did you get an email from them? I've received nothing from Heighway on the matter.

Yes, but this was some time back...I'll have to dig through to see if he gave me a price for it....I just conveyed that I wanted mine to have it.....

#1304 3 years ago

Andrew is very easy to communicate with, but suspect he is buried w Full Throttle, and returning from honeymoon........

#1305 3 years ago

I think the BOM and currency conversions and everything else have just led to some adjustments to make sure making the games is a sustainable thing. I dunno, I'm not in the middle of that stuff, Andrew and I have only briefly even talked about it. Considering what they're cramming into the games as far as features and the competitive landscape I feel like the price is reasonable. But obviously everyone has to make their own call on that stuff.

#1306 3 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

UGHHH! I hate to get on a soapbox, but here goes. What has changed about this game? There has been no significant reveal of any changes to a game that was supposed to have been in production 3 months ago. Don't get me wrong. I get it. Motion Picture IP holders are hard to work with. You can stop drilling that into my head now. My beef is that the price is creeping up on a game that has had ZERO visually revealed! So, should I expect a new price increase every time that a feature of this game is verbally described to me?

If you are uncomfortable placing a fully refundable deposit for an LE reservation, then it's simple. Just wait for the full reveal & final pricing info before making your decision. No one is forcing you to jump in now.

#1307 3 years ago

I don't know if this was a typo, but I think that would be a cool idea to number the Limited Editions as LV-###, as a nod to the moon where the first two films took place

#1309 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Limited Variant #426

Hell yeah! I bet Andrew snagged that number for himself

#1310 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I think the BOM and currency conversions and everything else have just led to some adjustments to make sure making the games is a sustainable thing. I dunno, I'm not in the middle of that stuff, Andrew and I have only briefly even talked about it. Considering what they're cramming into the games as far as features and the competitive landscape I feel like the price is reasonable. But obviously everyone has to make their own call on that stuff.

It's hard for anyone to say that the $8k price point is reasonable compared to other pins on the market because we haven't seen enough of Alien to make that call.

Personally, I'd still have a hard time calling any pin at the $8k price point "reasonable." Doesn't mean I won't pay that much for it eventually, but regardless of how good it winds up being, $8k is a lot of coin.

#1311 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm always hesitant to speak on things...

Huge post count for someone hesitant to speak.

#1312 3 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Huge post count for someone hesitant to speak.

That's pretty funny (no disrespect meant towards Aurich.)

#1313 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It's hard for anyone to say that the $8k price point is reasonable compared to other pins on the market because we haven't seen enough of Alien to make that call.
Personally, I'd still have a hard time calling any pin at the $8k price point "reasonable." Doesn't mean I won't pay that much for it eventually, but regardless of how good it winds up being, $8k is a lot of coin.

I was actually talking about the Standards. For any company's LE I think the value proposition is rarely there from a straight numbers perspective, it's more of an emotional thing. Only LE I own is Metallica, and I paid extra for it just because I really wanted the intangibles on that one. Not because it was really "worth it" otherwise.

But the Heighway Standard is priced right with the Stern Premium. But at least with Stern's current Spike offerings you getting a ton more. The obvious differences being a high rez full color LCD screen and complete RGB lighting. Plus widebody I guess. And as Full Throttle has shown that doesn't mean slow and no flow.

#1314 3 years ago

About the price change. That is one of the few perks about pre-ordering early. You know what price you are paying.

Since no one knows why the price has gone up 200$ it is just silly to complain about it and it is unfair to criticize them for doing so.

I am sure there is a good reason and that we will know the reason soon enough. (but I do not feel that they owe us any explanation about it)

Prices go up and down (mostly up) all the time. Especially if the company is distributing the goods themselves. Currency is always a big factor and parts price could also go up. Ergo, could be lots of reasons for it.

Talking about the price going up without showing any pictures or info about the changes being done since the last price point seems peculiar and is a stance I do not follow at all.

#1315 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I was actually talking about the Standards.

Huh?

We were specifically talking about the price increase on the LE. This post precipitated the entire discussion:

Quoted from jazzmaster:

So when did the LE jump in price from $7850 to $8050? Why the price increase? Will we see this upward trend in pricing continue as the game gets closer to production? I was visiting heighway's site to pre-order after Aurich's awesome post above but now I am a bit put off by a price increase with no new significant information about the game revealed. What gives guys?

And then you came in with your response:

Quoted from Aurich:

I think the BOM and currency conversions and everything else have just led to some adjustments to make sure making the games is a sustainable thing. I dunno, I'm not in the middle of that stuff, Andrew and I have only briefly even talked about it. Considering what they're cramming into the games as far as features and the competitive landscape I feel like the price is reasonable. But obviously everyone has to make their own call on that stuff.

If there was no increase in price on the standard, it isn't relevant to the discussion.

#1316 3 years ago
Quoted from karl:

Talking about the price going up without showing any pictures or info about the changes being done since the last price point seems peculiar and is a stance I do not follow at all.

Really?

You are saying it makes no sense at all to ask why the price went up on a pin? Whether additional features were added?

What if the price went up by $2k? Would it be ok with you to talk about the price going up then? Is there some magical number that makes it acceptable to talk about?

#1317 3 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

If you are uncomfortable placing a fully refundable deposit for an LE reservation, then it's simple. Just wait for the full reveal & final pricing info before making your decision. No one is forcing you to jump in now.

I don't believe I said anyone was forcing me to jump in now!

After further review of the order form, it looks like the price that is listed on the order form at the time of purchase is what the game will cost. In other words, those people who have already ordered will get there games for $200 less that anyone who orders today. So, with that in mind, it would seem that I am being forced to pre-order now if I don't want the the price to creep even higher.

I really wish that pinball companies would just stop all of this pre-order before the full reveal crap. Don't start selling the product before you have a final design and price. Nearly every one of them says that they don't like the pre-order model but then they all resort to it anyway. It is nothing more than lip service.

At the very least, it would be nice to get a heads up that there is an impending price increase. Just strikes me as a little underhanded to raise the price and not even mention it beforehand.

#1318 3 years ago

My bad, I missed that we were specifically talking about the LE I guess. Honestly I have no insights nor am I qualified to speak on the pricing, so I'll just stay out of it.

#1319 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

My bad, I missed that we were specifically talking about the LE I guess. Honestly I have no insights nor am I qualified to speak on the pricing, so I'll just stay out of it.

Now that's how you discuss matters with a lawyer. (RobT=Lawyer. Right?)
Having said that, I don't think a $200 increase in price is a cause for debate. Let's just wait & see the pin, maybe we'll all feel that Alien LE is under priced!

10
#1320 3 years ago

The question about the price increase is a valid one.

Generally speaking, our €EUR and $USD prices are subject to fluctuation on a weekly basis depending on a number of factors - mainly currency exchange rates. We do state this clearly on our Store page. Other factors like shipping rates also factor in.

Our €EUR prices have gone up and down a lot over the last 6 months because of large currency fluctuations, but the $USD price hasn't moved until recently.

The reason for the recent price change, which affected both Standard Edition and Limited Edition variants of both Full Throttle and Alien Pinball, comes down to the cost of producing these machines. As well as the features and innovations packed into our machines, we refuse to compromise on quality. This means that we have expensive machines to produce. Costs of parts can go up which means that we must raise our prices as well, unfortunately.

Saying that, our prices 'could' come down in the future as we buy more parts for less, and more processes are moved in-house.

We want to bring both quality and value to pinball, but it may take a while for costs and prices to settle down. We will always do our best to keep our prices as low as possible.

Regarding the screen upgrades, we announced these here, with links to our store. It's true that some of our Full Throttle customers are only receiving their upgrade option emails now - and we apologise for this delay.

Customers can order and pay for their screen upgrade at any time before shipping, by visiting http://heighwaypinball.com/screen/

#1321 3 years ago
Quoted from Zampinator:

Now that's how you discuss matters with a lawyer. (RobT=Lawyer. Right?)
Having said that, I don't think a $200 increase in price is a cause for debate. Let's just wait & see the pin, maybe we'll all feel that Alien LE is under priced!

Then don't jump into the debate! I don't necessarily have an issue with the price increase. Other manufacturers have increased the price of their offerings as they get further along in the development process or as certain milestones are reached. Usually the increase is announced before it happens. This $200 increase just seems arbitrary. As far as I can tell Alien has not reached any milestones from the consumer perspective: Game announced with initial shot layout and pre-orders taken at initial price- lots of hyperbole about the game design thrown around on Internet forums and game expos - arbitrary price increase! See? no milestones.

#1322 3 years ago

Now that Andrew has addressed that, maybe I can talk about the value and features of Heighway pins a little more. Rob and I were having a parallel conversation in the Hobbit thread, and it got pretty off topic. Rob suggested bringing it here, so this quote is from that thread:

Quoted from RobT:

Last I checked, I have full RGB lighting on my Stern Premium TWD?

The answer to that is no, you don't. Stern has never released a game with full RGB lighting. The closest they've come is Star Trek Prem/LE, which had true RGB lighting for the inserts. The Pro had a weaker style of RGB (could only do 6 colors) on a few inserts. None of the flashers and GI were RGB on either game.

Walking Dead has two different colors of GI bulbs, it's white and red right? So they can run both, or one or the other. Red GI, white GI, or white with red accents. Which inserts are RGB? Honestly not sure, only really played the Pro. But I know it's not every single one like Star Trek. On Alien every single lamp in the game will be able to be one of 16 million colors. Obviously in practice it will be less than that, but you get the point. Smooth transitions, any shade we want, fade on and off, etc.

So that's what allows effects like the one I posted earlier, with my explosion idea. Stern pins, as of right now at least, cannot do that.

Star Trek is a great example though, if you've played it with the most recent code, and you get a medal, it does that cool insert light show in the color of the medal. We can take things like that, and bring them up to the next level since we can integrate the GI, flashers, and LCD screen into the effect.

So when I say that Heighway is offering more value at the Stern Premium price point that's what I mean, they have more advanced tech. I'm not sure what Hobbit has. I think it's white GI and full RGB inserts, more like Star Trek Prem? Anyone know for sure? Or are they full RGB too?

#1323 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Really?
You are saying it makes no sense at all to ask why the price went up on a pin? Whether additional features were added?
What if the price went up by $2k? Would it be ok with you to talk about the price going up then? Is there some magical number that makes it acceptable to talk about?

Fair point. Of course it is ok to ask why and a reason is always preferable. What I meant is that it almost sounded like they had no right to change the price without giving a reason first.

PS! What is and is not ok to spend is up to each buyer to decide. I just aired my view on it.

Anyway, a reason has already been posted by Heighway so I better shut up about it now

#1324 3 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

The question about the price increase is a valid one.
Generally speaking, our €EUR and $USD prices are subject to fluctuation on a weekly basis depending on a number of factors - mainly currency exchange rates. We do state this clearly on our Store page. Other factors like shipping rates also factor in.
Our €EUR prices have gone up and down a lot over the last 6 months because of large currency fluctuations, but the $USD price hasn't moved until recently.
The reason for the recent price change, which affected both Standard Edition and Limited Edition variants of both Full Throttle and Alien Pinball, comes down to the cost of producing these machines. As well as the features and innovations packed into our machines, we refuse to compromise on quality. This means that we have expensive machines to produce. Costs of parts can go up which means that we must raise our prices as well, unfortunately.
Saying that, our prices 'could' come down in the future as we buy more parts for less, and more processes are moved in-house.
We want to bring both quality and value to pinball, but it may take a while for costs and prices to settle down. We will always do our best to keep our prices as low as possible.
Regarding the screen upgrades, we announced these here, with links to our store. It's true that some of our Full Throttle customers are only receiving their upgrade option emails now - and we apologise for this delay.
Customers can order and pay for their screen upgrade at any time before shipping, by visiting http://heighwaypinball.com/screen/

Is there a reason why you chose not to announce the price increase before implementing it? I understand the fluctuation in currency exchange but, from my perspective, the bottom line is that the game just went up $200 without notice. Is the price on the sales order form the final price of the machine or will orders already taken be subject to the $200 increase (and presumably any further price increases)?

-2
#1325 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

We kill all the GI and the inserts and the LCD. Game goes dark.

This is cool in theory and looks nice in a dark room, but really dramatic lighting effects are completely awful to play through, particularly if it pulses or flashers are involved. Going light-blind and not being able to see the ball(s) well, particularly after a successful run, is extremely frustrating. Stern has gone in the wrong direction with that lately, for sure. All of the GI goes out on ST when you're awarded a medal- the ball is almost always live at that point and it's a pain and a half to play through it. Same thing with Well walker hits on WD and a few of the modes on MET. Try playing Walking dead in a dark room or bar and see what it feels like when you hit the well walker and all of the lights go out for a few seconds.

Basically, it's hard enough to track where the ball is going under even lighting conditions. If you do go and do something really dramatic like that, at least do it while the balls are out of play or there's a ball saver going until the effect has settled.

Might just be my pet peeve.

Sure, not as much of an issue if you're in a bright environment, but then the light show doesn't look as great anyways.

#1326 3 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

Then don't jump into the debate! I don't necessarily have an issue with the price increase. Other manufacturers have increased the price of their offerings as they get further along in the development process or as certain milestones are reached. Usually the increase is announced before it happens. This $200 increase just seems arbitrary. As far as I can tell Alien has not reached any milestones from the consumer perspective: Game announced with initial shot layout and pre-orders taken at initial price- lots of hyperbole about the game design thrown around on Internet forums and game expos - arbitrary price increase! See? no milestones.

Wasn't talking to you. Need a hug? Free hugs & candy!

#1327 3 years ago
Quoted from Zampinator:

Wasn't talking to you. Need a hug? Free hugs & candy!

My bad. I thought this was a forum thread. Guess I didn't realize I was in a PM discussion between you and Aurich.

#1328 3 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

My bad. I thought this was a forum thread. Guess I didn't realize I was in a PM discussion between you and Aurich.

That's right! A Forum thread, for All to discuss & debate.

#1329 3 years ago

By the way I paid the extra $200, I got in last week on my Alien LE.

#1330 3 years ago
Quoted from Law:

This is cool in theory and looks nice in a dark room, but really dramatic lighting effects are completely awful to play through, particularly if it pulses or flashers are involved. Going light-blind and not being able to see the ball(s) well, particularly after a successful run, is extremely frustrating. Stern has gone in the wrong direction with that lately, for sure.

Point taken, but I think that it's part of the gameplay too. Meaning that too many showy effects that detract from the gameplay can suck, but doing things where you're purposefully messing with the player are fair game. Like Fade to Black on Metallica. I love that the lights keep getting darker. It's part of the mode. Lyman really milked a lot of value out of just red, white, and blue GI lights. If he had the Heighway system of fully RGB GI I imagine he would have taken things even further.

Anyways, in my pretend explosion example above, that's clearly something you'd do while holding the ball. Make a saucer shot, then kill the lights, run the animation, and launch the multiball. Just like Star Trek does for Klingon Multiball. You can't expect the player to play through stuff like that, it's to build up momentum for the upcoming multiball or mode.

I don't want to post more examples, because we already have plans for the actual game that it's too early to talk about. But I hear your point for sure.

#1331 3 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

My bad. I thought this was a forum thread. Guess I didn't realize I was in a PM discussion between you and Aurich.

Hey, it's all good, you have legit questions. Andrew answered the first part, so there's a dialogue straight with the owner of the company here. Within hours too. That's great.

Apparently WOZ prices just went up $500 out of the blue? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-500-price-increase

Stern raises prices between games. Alien is just caught with probably being announced a little early, but we already talked about why that happened, so no point in beating it to death.

I appreciate everyone who pre-orders, it's a real show of support, and I love you for it. But personally I think anyone who wants to wait it out and see what happens is no lesser in any way. Definitely isn't drama in my book to be cautious, or have questions.

Our job is to make a kick ass game, and whenever you buy it I'll appreciate it. And if you don't that's all good too, can't sell one to everyone. Though if that happened I wouldn't be mad.

#1332 3 years ago

I love modern lighting effects on these new pins like Star Trek. My interest really peaked when I heard that Aliens would have color changing lighted ramps, similar to Tron LE. There are so many effects than can be created with full RGB lighting that can fade smoothly & create any color in the GI, inserts & flashers. It's one of Aliens main selling points IMO.

I know there are purists who prefer incandescent lighting & find insert LEDs blinding, but we're in the 21st century now & RGB lighting is becoming the standard. Bring on the high tech bright lights & cool effects!

#1333 3 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I know there are purists who prefer incandescent lighting & find insert LEDs blinding, but we're in the 21st century now & RGB lighting is becoming the standard. Bring on the high tech bright lights & cool effects!

I think having systems built from scratch to handle LEDs, with smooth fading, no flickering, ghosting etc helps. A lot of the hate for LEDs comes from retrofitting them in games where they just don't work right.

I know that I love Herg's LED OCD board. My Tron looks so much nicer now with it.

#1334 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

The answer to that is no, you don't. Stern has never released a game with full RGB lighting. The closest they've come is Star Trek Prem/LE, which had true RGB lighting for the inserts. The Pro had a weaker style of RGB (could only do 6 colors) on a few inserts. None of the flashers and GI were RGB on either game.
Walking Dead has two different colors of GI bulbs, it's white and red right? So they can run both, or one or the other. Red GI, white GI, or white with red accents. Which inserts are RGB? Honestly not sure, only really played the Pro. But I know it's not every single one like Star Trek. On Alien every single lamp in the game will be able to be one of 16 million colors. Obviously in practice it will be less than that, but you get the point. Smooth transitions, any shade we want, fade on and off, etc.
So that's what allows effects like the one I posted earlier, with my explosion idea. Stern pins, as of right now at least, cannot do that.
Star Trek is a great example though, if you've played it with the most recent code, and you get a medal, it does that cool insert light show in the color of the medal. We can take things like that, and bring them up to the next level since we can integrate the GI, flashers, and LCD screen into the effect.
So when I say that Heighway is offering more value at the Stern Premium price point that's what I mean, they have more advanced tech. I'm not sure what Hobbit has. I think it's white GI and full RGB inserts, more like Star Trek Prem? Anyone know for sure? Or are they full RGB too?

That's all nice stuff, but what we were discussing is your statement that Heighway is really going to put pressure on Stern with their price point and features. Even given the above...I still don't see it. It's not a game changer. It isn't a big enough improvement over what Stern does with their RGB lighting to put "pressure" on them to change what they do currently.

Let's face it, the biggest feature/difference that people want to see on a Stern is an LCD screen. Whether it is on the smaller scale like what Heighway is doing, or on a large scale like JJP, LCD is what people talk about more than anything. The big thing everyone wants to know about the rumored GoT pin is whether it will have an LCD screen.

I don't see people clamoring for "Full RGB" lighting in every single insert and GI. Nice to have? Absolutely! Just not something that will make or break a sale for Heighway vs Stern.

#1335 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

That's all nice stuff, but what we were discussing is your statement that Heighway is really going to put pressure on Stern with their price point and features. Even given the above...I still don't see it. It's not a game changer. It isn't a big enough improvement over what Stern does with their RGB lighting to put "pressure" on them to change what they do currently.

Eh, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that then. For me it's a big deal. The more interactive lighting is the main reason I bought my Metallica LE (used with the "real" code) over a Pro. It's definitely the reason I bought my Star Trek Premium over a Pro.

I didn't get a Tron Pro until Eli's ramp kit existed. I needed it to make the game feel complete.

Obviously theme and gameplay come first. But if you're contemplating Alien vs Jurassic World or whatever, and Stern's game is same old LEDs and a DMD and Alien has bad ass lighting effects and an LCD screen I think we have the edge.

Game of Thrones is going to change that though is my guess, so we'll just have to see where the cards fall.

#1336 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Eh, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that then. For me it's a big deal. The more interactive lighting is the main reason I bought my Metallica LE (used with the "real" code) over a Pro. It's definitely the reason I bought my Star Trek Premium over a Pro.

Why are you comparing the difference in Stern's lighting between their LE/Premium and their pro, with the lighting between Heighway and Stern LE/Premium?

That makes zero sense to me. You are comparing a pin that has *zero* ability to change colors (Stern Pro) with ones that do (Stern LE/Premium) and equating that to the difference between what Heighway is doing to Stern LE/Premium lighting? Sorry, don't see it.

I've seen the videos of Full Throttle and the color changing inserts. None of those seem any more impressive than what Stern is doing on their LE/Premium models.

#1337 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Why are you comparing the difference in Stern's lighting between their LE/Premium and their pro, with the lighting between Heighway and Stern LE/Premium?

I'm saying that I paid more for the better lighting models. Star Trek Premium was worth extra to me for full RGB lighting. That's the main reason I got it over the Pro. The gameplay was really almost identical otherwise. So to me more advanced lighting is worth extra money, that's my point. To me it's more value.

I have literally zero to do with Full Throttle. I haven't even played it! Saw it at Expo '14 and that's it. I don't know how they use the RGB lights. All I know is that Alien is going to be filled with atmosphere, and the lighting is definitely going to be a part of that, and I think it will be a compelling package. And I think relative to the Stern Premium, which is the direct price comparison, it will represent a good value. Only you can judge what matters of course. And if the game isn't fun no lights will help that, we have to get everything else right too.

Edit: I started a new thread here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-does-twd-premle-use-its-rgb-inserts because I'm curious to learn more about TWD lighting, and don't want to drag this off topic. Sorry for the Stern derail, was just trying to explain a value point. Removed my paragraph about Star Trek.

#1338 3 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I don't know if this was a typo, but I think that would be a cool idea to number the Limited Editions as LV-###, as a nod to the moon where the first two films took place

I tried to get 426 but it was taken. 223 is the birthplace of the alien. At least according to prometheus

--Jeff

#1339 3 years ago

Oh now I see Aurich beat me to the punch!!

I'm jealous

#1340 3 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

Oh now I see Aurich beat me to the punch!!
I'm jealous

lol no, it wasn't me. I haven't requested a number or anything. I honestly don't care, I couldn't even tell you what # my METLE is, only LE game I own. Andrew can send me whatever.

#1341 3 years ago

I went for LE #157 to honour the souls who perished on Hadley's Hope.

#1342 3 years ago
Quoted from thewool:

I went for LE #157 to honour the souls who perished on Hadley's Hope.

I feel like I read this before somewhere

-9
#1343 3 years ago

How did a game like twilight zone cost $4,000 to make and now this cost over twice that? I just don't get it.

13
#1344 3 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

How did a game like Twilight Zone cost $4,000 to make and now this cost over twice that? I just don't get it.

That was 1993. A new Mustang GT was $15,000.

#1345 3 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

How did a game like Twilight Zone cost $4,000 to make and now this cost over twice that? I just don't get it.

I would think volume, a company who was establisted for almost 50 years, and ongoing vendor relations. Also, 4K in 1993 translates to about 6.6K in today's dollars. Add to that the startup costs for Heighway to get going, to get a facility, so set up vendor relations, etc.... You can't just write all that off. Williams / Bally had other things to profit from, so if they took a loss on a pinball machine, it wasn't the end of the world.

Plus it has also been established that people will pay these prices for games. I think Heighway is doing good keeping the pricing where it is. That said, I still can't afford one, but you asked why this was 2X a Twilight Zone, and it's simple if you sit down and think about it.

Chris

-5
#1346 3 years ago

Its simple if you accept you are paying way to much.

Look at mmr.... Was 8k at announcement. They just picked that price because all other nib were also that price.

After that... JJP came in, stern came in, other parties came in..... All under that 8k price which of the time of annoucing they had no idea who was gonne be involved.

They just robbed their costumers, who felt for it.

If only stern would do it, as the only party, that pin might be 5k or less!

That is how far you got fucked in the ass!

Stern just build a whole new factory in a so called very hard industry. Who has paid for that do you think? Last few years they are taking advantage of a small, yet very rich pinballfanbase.

It is disgusting this moneygrapping and dressing down their games.

#1347 3 years ago
Quoted from TOK:

That was 1993. A new Mustang GT was $15,000.

Right! & a gallon of milk was $.99

#1348 3 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Stern just build a whole new factory in a so called very hard industry. Who has paid for that do you think? Last few years they are taking advantage of a small, yet very rich pinballfanbase.
It is disgusting this moneygrapping and dressing down their games.

I have no doubt that companies are charging higher than they could to make more profit. It is called "business". As far as taking advantage of anyone, this is a niche luxury product. No one is being taken advantage of as no one needs a pinball machine, new or otherwise. If all you want to do is play pinball you can find locations (somtimes), or buy cheaper older machines.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like the prices, but playing the victim when it comes to pinball is just silly.

Back on topic, I would already have an LE reserved if the CDN dollar hadn't tanked. Maybe I will pick one up next decade when the dollar has levelled out...

#1349 3 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

It is called "business". As far as taking advantage of anyone, this is a niche luxury product. No one is being taken advantage of as no one needs a pinball machine, new or otherwise. If all you want to do is play pinball you can find locations (somtimes), or buy cheaper older machines.
Vote with your wallet if you don't like the prices, but playing the victim when it comes to pinball is just silly.

Called first world problems. It's kind of like forgetting your smart phone when you go to take a crap. Ohh the humanity!! Ten minutes with no entertainment just likely ruined my day.

#1350 3 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

How did a game like Twilight Zone cost $4,000 to make and now this cost over twice that? I just don't get it.

Think about how labor intensive the assembly of a pinball machine is. Then think about how drastically the minimum wage (and wages in general) have changed in the last 20 years. Then think about all the other raw materials that have undergone price increases over the last 20 years. Add it all up and that's how you get to being 2X as expensive.

As for the perception that MMR and the other pins coming from other suppliers just pulled a random sales price out of their butt - I believe that's a bunch of hogwash. Most of these companies are too smart to just pick a price point like that without comparing it back to what their BOM is, overhead, and other costs that they need to recoup through the sales of the machine. Pins are expensive.

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