(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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  • 24,687 posts
  • 986 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Durzel
  • Topic is favorited by 261 Pinsiders

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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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#13151 2 years ago

The LEart is beautiful. Really impressed and think it will correspond well with Aurich's work.

#13152 2 years ago
Quoted from TimberOne:

Who is producing a star wars?

Hasbro?

amazon.com link »

#13153 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Sorry but that makes zero sense, what r u trying to say?

Look at the timestamp of that video, and when he said it was approved, remember this is UK timezone.
So my point is that saying few workers in a video that is filmed maybe at a strange hour is not a solid reason to make any conclusion on.
If it still does not makes sense, please let me know.

44
#13154 2 years ago

There have been some suggestions that we have only shipped 2 or 3 Alien games. This is simply not true.

I understand the knives are out for us on Pinside again right now.

We have shipped out a good quantity of games and continue to do so every week. We have a good number of customers with Alien games in 6 different countries right now.

For example, 3 more games left only 5 minutes ago - please see the photo below.

As for the Cointaker shipment - there have been no delays at our end. Please direct any enquiries about the shipment to Cointaker. Their consignment is due to leave very soon in any case.

More parts are coming in daily and production is already ramping up ... and will continue to ramp up until we reach our target of at least 100 games a month

SHipment 280417 (resized).jpg

#13155 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

It was pretty obvious that Heighway has integrity and is an upfront business, despite what some of you like to infer.
They did not double sell a LE. The simple and obvious answer when you are not trying to start some drama is exactly what it ended up being...

I'm not inferring anything about Heighway. Never have. It's just you always jump in and answer for Heighway when you don't know for sure what the deal is. Like jumping in and saying you're sure Heighway will take care of FT customers and give them a CPU or whatever. Just chill, enjoy your Alien pin and let Heighway answer the questions asked of them. That's all I'm saying.

#13156 2 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

Yep, Andrew already contacted me. Sorry, I guess I was confused. I still have Alien LE #3 reserved. Glad to have that clarified early this morning. Hopefully, LE's will start shipping soon. I want mine for League play at my house in July.
Peace!

Jay also contacted me back as well letting me know he had already contacted you. Seems pretty responsive if you ask me.

18
#13157 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Look at the timestamp of that video, and when he said it was approved, remember this is UK timezone.
So my point is that saying few workers in a video that is filmed maybe at a strange hour is not a solid reason to make any conclusion on.
If it still does not makes sense, please let me know.

The video was recorded at the very end of the day on Alien Day. 30 minutes past our normal factory closing time.

We took the risk of recording the video before approval because LA is 8 hours behind us.

The approval came in around 11pm local time - at which point we posted the video. Only just on Alien Day in the UK, but still early on Alien Day for the States

#13158 2 years ago

Regardless of what businesses I have been in, Patience is the key to a better Reward.

Happy Friday! Hang in there!

(Awesome Andrew!)

#13159 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I'm not inferring anything about Heighway. Never have. It's just you always jump in and answer for Heighway when you don't know for sure what the deal is. Like jumping in and saying you're sure Heighway will take care of FT customers and give them a CPU or whatever. Just chill, enjoy your Alien pin and let Heighway answer the questions asked of them. That's all I'm saying.

Ugggghhh

Put your knife away.

I was answering for myself and nobody else. I was sure Jim had le #3. Jim ordered early on. Someone made a simple mistake in referring to a number and some people pull out the wet stone and start sharpening...

#13160 2 years ago

Andrew- Thanks for the update. I ship c-containers from time to time. From pick-up to delivery globally can take anywhere from 30-45 days to clear customs. Im sure the cointakers will be here soon.
You can throw it on a plane from 700-1000 extra, will still take a week to clear.
Biggest flaw or problem ive seen was selling the 3 machines out of TPF.
Those 3 should have gone on tour rather than get sold. This would have been really good advertising for the pin. Many shows on west coast next 3-4 months, and no Aliens will be present......well, there is a remake making these shows.

18
#13161 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

I understand the knives are out for us on Pinside again right now.

Many people on here want to complain, but please know many of us do value your openness and desire to do right by the Pinball community.

It's disappointing conduct on here results in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. But don't be discouraged, a lot of us do appreciate Heighway's efforts. Alien looks impressive. Best of luck!

#13162 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

There have been some suggestions that we have only shipped 2 or 3 Alien games. This is simply not true.
I understand the knives are out for us on Pinside again right now.
We have shipped out a good quantity of games and continue to do so every week. We have a good number of customers with Alien games in 6 different countries right now.
For example, 3 more games left only 5 minutes ago - please see the photo below.
As for the Cointaker shipment - there have been no delays at our end. Please direct any enquiries about the shipment to Cointaker. Their consignment is due to leave very soon in any case.
More parts are coming in daily and production is already ramping up ... and will continue to ramp up until we reach our target of at least 100 games a month

Great to hear. Hope to see more videos popping up soon from owners.

14
#13163 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

There have been some suggestions that we have only shipped 2 or 3 Alien games. This is simply not true.
I understand the knives are out for us on Pinside again right now.
We have shipped out a good quantity of games and continue to do so every week. We have a good number of customers with Alien games in 6 different countries right now.
For example, 3 more games left only 5 minutes ago - please see the photo below.
As for the Cointaker shipment - there have been no delays at our end. Please direct any enquiries about the shipment to Cointaker. Their consignment is due to leave very soon in any case.
More parts are coming in daily and production is already ramping up ... and will continue to ramp up until we reach our target of at least 100 games a month

Looking great andrew!!

For the second month in, our Alien has been killing it on route!
Almost double the earnings of the next closest pin in a nine game lineup with solid titles.

#13164 2 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Andrew- Thanks for the update. I ship c-containers from time to time. From pick-up to delivery globally can take anywhere from 30-45 days to clear customs. Im sure the cointakers will be here soon.
You can throw it on a plane from 700-1000 extra, will still take a week to clear.
Biggest flaw or problem ive seen was selling the 3 machines out of TPF.
Those 3 should have gone on tour rather than get sold. This would have been really good advertising for the pin. Many shows ob eest coast next 3-4 months, and no Aliens will be present......well, there is a remake making these shows.

To be fair the game I took from TPF was on location within 2 days, stayed there for two weeks, was brought home for 4 days, then went to a three day show, it has now been back in my home since Monday, and will be going out on location within the next week. I've also put roughly 6-8 hours of gameplay online at this point of the machine.

Heighway had nothing to do with the sale of the TPF games, those were purchased by Cointaker, and sold by Cointaker, and they only sold two, one left the show with them. I'm not sure what they did with the game after the show, but I imagined at the time it may be used at other shows.

#13165 2 years ago

I don't have a dog in this fight, nor am I familiar with the business practices of this particular company. I understand the mentality of the consumer. I own and operate a business that relies on e-commerce sales 100%. Dealing with customers and suppliers everyday is part of the business and customer trust should be the 100% main priority. Without that, speculation and rumors would spread like wildfire.

That's not to say that these companies aren't thinking at that level, but actions have to follow up the thought process. We don't let the customers go anymore than 24 hours without communication on a pre-launch product, especially if they're paid in full already. No news to report or further developments is an easy message to convey. I can't imagine not keeping open lines of communication daily when dealing with a product that's thousands of dollars.

#13166 2 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Andrew- Thanks for the update. I ship c-containers from time to time. From pick-up to delivery globally can take anywhere from 30-45 days to clear customs. Im sure the cointakers will be here soon.
You can throw it on a plane from 700-1000 extra, will still take a week to clear.
Biggest flaw or problem ive seen was selling the 3 machines out of TPF.
Those 3 should have gone on tour rather than get sold. This would have been really good advertising for the pin. Many shows on west coast next 3-4 months, and no Aliens will be present......well, there is a remake making these shows.

Cointaker's games will ship by airfreight

#13167 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

Cointaker's games will ship by airfreight

Now thats customer service. Thanks Andrew!

#13168 2 years ago
Quoted from Potatoloco:

I can't imagine not keeping open lines of communication daily

That's reasonable. So we need a DAILY update in this thread from Heighway now. That happens in every industry then eh? I must be missing a lot of calls or "forum" posts from companies I guess.



#13169 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

There have been some suggestions that we have only shipped 2 or 3 Alien games. This is simply not true.
I understand the knives are out for us on Pinside again right now.
We have shipped out a good quantity of games and continue to do so every week. We have a good number of customers with Alien games in 6 different countries right now.
For example, 3 more games left only 5 minutes ago - please see the photo below.
As for the Cointaker shipment - there have been no delays at our end. Please direct any enquiries about the shipment to Cointaker. Their consignment is due to leave very soon in any case.
More parts are coming in daily and production is already ramping up ... and will continue to ramp up until we reach our target of at least 100 games a month

Andrew, I don't think anyone was necessarily bringing the knives out for the company as a whole. You have a proven record of delivering games, and I think everyone believes these will be made (unlike many others), but people in general are impatient....especially when they have a good chunk of cash invested. Add that to the wealth of mis-information and innuendo that is out there, and it doesn't take much for things to turn dark.

Without mentioning names, I think the pot may have been stirred by our famous and so-called "reformed" podcaster who stopped short of making accusations that games would not be delivered, but led folks down that path with his "special edition" podcast. His defenders are going to say he just stated facts, but we all know why he laid out what he did, and that was to stir the pot so he could sit back and watch this thread.

But with that said, the way to take the wind out of that sail is simply to give a little information and dispel the rumors. I understand there are always going to be those that pick at anything you post, but the vast majority are just happy knowing games are rolling off the line, and I don't think that was publicly stated before...at least not formally. I for one am very happy and excited to see your post. My big concern with the industry as a whole is the "pay in full" deposits, and that has nothing to do necessarily with Heighway Pinball itself, but rather how the business has morphed.

-14
#13170 2 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Now thats customer service. Thanks Andrew!

Now that's butt-kissing

#13171 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Hasbro?
amazon.com link »

Sweet! I can have it be tomorrow! Looks like easy set up also.

#13172 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

The video was recorded at the very end of the day on Alien Day. 30 minutes past our normal factory closing time.
We took the risk of recording the video before approval because LA is 8 hours behind us.
The approval came in around 11pm local time - at which point we posted the video. Only just on Alien Day in the UK, but still early on Alien Day for the States

I keep wondering where are all the workers in such a large complex in the videos. There have been a couple cool videos seeing things in production, different assembly lines, that is always reassuring to see (and interesting)

#13173 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

Cointaker's games will ship by airfreight

How about Nitro Amusements games coming to Canada

#13174 2 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

I am very confused. I reserved LE #3 on Day One and paid for it. It matches my Full Throttle LE #3. Here is my email from Andrew from 10-21-14.
Hi Jim,
"It was also great to meet you at Expo.
Please accept my apology for the delay in replying to you, as I have had a mountain of emails to get through since Expo finished.
We have reserved number 003 for you.
When you get a chance, can you please download an Order Form from the site, fill it in, and send it back to me?
Thanks again for your order.
Kind regards,
Andrew"
UGH, trying to figure this out will be a waste of time for me today.
Jim

I'll clear that up. Paid in full SE #3 with CT. Not LE.

Sorry for the confusion.

#13175 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

It's pretty cranky on the interweb for a Friday!!!!
What's gotten in to you Debbie Downers!?!?

I have my $8175 back. I'm happier than a pig in shit.

20
#13176 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Without mentioning names, I think the pot may have been stirred by our famous and so-called "reformed" podcaster who stopped short of making accusations that games would not be delivered, but led folks down that path with his "special edition" podcast. His defenders are going to say he just stated facts, but we all know why he laid out what he did, and that was to stir the pot so he could sit back and watch this thread.

If games were shipping in large numbers 2 years ago, 1 year ago, 4 months ago, etc. as they were repeatedly promised, no podcast in the world could gain any traction against Heighway. It would be a non-issue. Andrew keeps promising shipping deadlines and missing them over and over and over again. Calling somebody out for doing that is just fine. It really is. Especially when they have taken full payment for said product. Every day that goes by means the games cost more to make because of overhead. We can't just keep patting everybody on the back. He should be held accountable for what he said.

What I don't understand is why there aren't HUNDREDS of Alien games done, sitting in the factory waiting for the "new Xeno boards." They promised to ramp production up to a hundred a MONTH before Christmas. He said he hired a new workforce over 5 months ago. Andrew has said he has all of the parts. What are all of the factory employees doing for 5 months? If I had hired a full workforce to build games for me, they would be building games. Endlessly. Otherwise you are just pissing all of your money away.

And he can't ship games because of the Xeno board, yet there are 3 more games on a truck. What about their Xeno boards? So it's OK for THESE games to ship with the supposedly bad boards, but everybody else has to wait?

Or how about promising that a hundred LE's would ship in January but they only got LE artwork approved this week? And now the recent hand-drawn art thing makes me scratch my head too. It was one of the few questions I asked in this thread well over a year ago:

Quoted from woodworker:

The license SPECIFICALLY doesn't allow for hand drawn art?

I thought we were all told by Aurich that this wasn't in the cards. Now there is a hand-drawn backglass for the LE?

I just fear that when Stern's Star Wars launches on the rumored May 4th, everybody will yank their money from Alien and this whole thing will collapse. Best of luck to the rest of you that are waiting. I truly hope you get your games. I am just going to buy this Mr. Potato Head Xenomorph instead:

http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3434427/well-finally-happened-xenomorph-mr-potato-head-coming-soon/

-1
#13177 2 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

I have my $8175 back. I'm happier than a pig in shit.

I wish I could say the same.

#13178 2 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

If games were shipping in large numbers 2 years ago, 1 year ago, 4 months ago, etc. as they were repeatedly promised, no podcast in the world could gain any traction against Heighway. It would be a non-issue. Andrew keeps promising shipping deadlines and missing them over and over and over again. Calling somebody out for doing that is just fine. It really is. Especially when they have taken full payment for said product. Every day that goes by means the games cost more to make because of overhead. We can't just keep patting everybody on the back. He should be held accountable for what he said.
What I don't understand is why there aren't HUNDREDS of Alien games done, sitting in the factory waiting for the "new Xeno boards." They promised to ramp production up to a hundred a MONTH before Christmas. He said he hired a new workforce over 5 months ago. Andrew has said he has all of the parts. What are all of the factory employees doing for 5 months? If I had hired a full workforce to build games for me, they would be building games. Endlessly. Otherwise you are just pissing all of your money away.
And he can't ship games because of the Xeno board, yet there are 3 more games on a truck. What about their Xeno boards? So it's OK for THESE games to ship with the supposedly bad boards, but everybody else has to wait?
Or how about promising that a hundred LE's would ship in January but they only got LE artwork approved this week? And now the recent hand-drawn art thing makes me scratch my head too. It was one of the few questions I asked in this thread well over a year ago:

I thought we were all told by Aurich that this wasn't in the cards. Now there is a hand-drawn backglass for the LE?
I just fear that when Stern's Star Wars launches on the rumored May 4th, everybody will yank their money from Alien and this whole thing will collapse. Best of luck to the rest of you that are waiting. I truly hope you get your games. I am just going to buy this Mr. Potato Head Xenomorph instead:
http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3434427/well-finally-happened-xenomorph-mr-potato-head-coming-soon/

Making pinballs is hard. Highway have already shown that they can produce and ship games. That his ETA's are off by a factor of ten does not help but if they put out a good product people will buy it......even if it's super duper late.

#13179 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

I wish I could say the same.

Dude...you requested it 7 hours ago, so you've got to be kidding right? I don't think a "day or two" to issue a refund is unreasonable...relax.

#13180 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Dude...you requested it 7 hours ago, so you've got to be kidding right? I don't think a "day or two" to issue a refund is unreasonable...relax.

I merely stated an opinion. Nothing more, why is it wrong for me to wish I had my refund? I didn't state anything other than a desire to have my money back, I will feel better once i do. Sorry i offended your delicate flower.

Yup I requested a refund at 6am CST. I did receive a response from Morgan at 8:30AM, but not confirm my refund. I replied simply asking for the refund again. There is no doubt that they have gotten my request, so now i'm just waiting for them to process it. Simple as that.

I'm not trying to start anything. I think it would be nice for people that are uncomfortable with the process to able to receive a refund in a timely manner. I will happily post back once I do, and i hope it's early next week to show that Heighway cares and responds quickly.

It's 2017, refunds don't take weeks/months to process.

The 2 best things they can do for the community are to ship machines, as i'm sure everyone would love to get one that has preordered, and to handle any order issues (I.E. Cancellations/Refunds) promptly.

#13181 2 years ago

Relax is right.

Some of the comments, sabre rattling, mud slinging & unnecessary drama in this thread just makes want me laugh.

Some of you need to step away from the keyboard, clear your head, and go outside for a....

run (resized).png

Thanks for the update Andrew. Always nice to see pics of games shipping

#13182 2 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

if people are getting their refunds right away, i don't see an issue with heighway.

Do we know this to be the case?

#13183 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

Some of you need to step away from the keyboard, clear your head,

For real. These "first world" problems are hilarious. Games are shipping slowly, hopefully that'll speed up sooner rather than later. They JUST finished the game...literally. The rough and tumble world of pinball isn't for everyone...maybe those feint of heart shouldn't pay in full on something until they are in stock.

#13184 2 years ago
Quoted from PinBackpacker:

Do we know this to be the case?

Quoted from NPO:

I have my $8175 back. I'm happier than a pig in shit.

Good lord! This was like 7 posts up.

#13185 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Good lord! This was like 7 posts up.

Yes, one person, who didn't order direct, instead ordered through Cointaker.

Show a post of someone who ordered direct getting their refund promptly, then we'll talk.

#13186 2 years ago

I'm still reasonably confident that we are getting our games, and as long as refunds are being processed then I'm not going to panic. If they are a responsible company, all refunds should be able to be processed, they shouldn't be operating off of game "deposits". Purchased paid for games one the line ready to be shipped, yes, but not deposits. I will agree that there is a big risk to them with the SW release. This is where I would possibly jump ship if the game is looking awesome and has a closer timeframe for shipping. In that case I would still plan to get Alien, just later on down the road.

#13187 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Show a post of someone who ordered direct getting their refund promptly, then we'll talk.

Direct refunds have typically been slow, even in the past. They are in the UK and busy developing and building games, so there is less time to deal with it. That's specifically why I went through Cointaker.

#13188 2 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

They are in the UK and busy developing and building games, so there is less time to deal with it.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that as a valid reason. There was no delay in taking my order and processing my payment. I'm aware of the time difference, and like i stated previously, they replied to my email asking for a refund, so they got my request just fine.

I'm trying to stick to the facts, not opinions.

#13189 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that as a valid reason. There was no delay in taking my order and processing my payment. I'm aware of the time difference, and like i stated previously, they replied to my email asking for a refund, so they got my request just fine.
I'm trying to stick to the facts, not opinions.

I know what your saying, and my point simply was that processing orders is Cointakers primary business function. So naturally they will be quicker about it than a pinball manufacturer in the UK.

No biggie man, I'm sure you'll get your refund, it just may take longer than you like. It sounds like you're pretty much divorced from this whole thing anyway, so once you get it, you can move on with life.

#13190 2 years ago

Regardless, I'm done. I'm sure i'll get support from some members and chastised by others. That's the internet for you.

Once I get confirmation from Heighway on my refund, I'll post so others know, as well as when it actually goes through.

I wish the company the best of luck and I sincerely hope people get their machines, I think it's a cool title, I really do. I think the LE artwork looks amazing. Just because I wasn't comfortable with the timeline and other things, doesn't mean others won't be or aren't.

That is all.

#13191 2 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I know what your saying, and my point simply was that processing orders is Cointakers primary business function. So naturally they will be quicker about it than a pinball manufacturer in the UK.
No biggie man, I'm sure you'll get your refund, it just may take longer than you like. It sounds like you're pretty much divorced from this whole thing anyway, so once you get it, you can move on with life.

Thanks. Yes I just hit a point where I was no longer "in it". I don't need any further promises or timelines, just would like my money back so i can continue to invest in the hobby we all love.

#13192 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Regardless, I'm done. I'm sure i'll get support from some members and chastised by others. That's the internet for you.
Once I get confirmation from Heighway on my refund, I'll post so others know, as well as when it actually goes through.
I wish the company the best of luck and I sincerely hope people get their machines, I think it's a cool title, I really do. I think the LE artwork looks amazing. Just because I wasn't comfortable with the timeline and other things, doesn't mean others won't be or aren't.
That is all.

I'm paid in full on an LE, I don't actually know what the terms are for refunds, however, if it was my company and production had started (it has no matter what anyone claims regarding SE/LE production) then there's no way I would be giving out refunds to customers if I didn't have to. Having said that, the game is delayed, but games are shipping (albeit slowly) so I would suggest a little patience, flooding the thread with negativity is really pointless and not helpful to the rest of us who have paid anything towards the game. Just hassle Heighway direct if you're that bothered about your refund.

#13193 2 years ago
Quoted from mufcmufc:

I'm paid in full on an LE, I don't actually know what the terms are for refunds, however, if it was my company and production had started (it has no matter what anyone claims regarding SE/LE production) then there's no way I would be giving out refunds to customers if I didn't have to. Having said that, the game is delayed, but games are shipping (albeit slowly) so I would suggest a little patience, flooding the thread with negativity is really pointless and not helpful to the rest of us who have paid anything towards the game. Just hassle Heighway direct if you're that bothered about your refund.

I disagree. If people are having a very difficult time getting refunds from Heighway I'd want to know before putting down a deposit.

#13194 2 years ago
Quoted from PinBackpacker:

I disagree. If people are having a very difficult time getting refunds from Heighway I'd want to know before putting down a deposit.

You have a point, but you made me look

http://www.heighwaypinball.com/terms-and-conditions/

So no panic for 21 days, why should they not keep to their terms? I know I would, especially considering this:

"What is my deposit being used for?

The game has already been developed. Your hard-earned money is being used for parts relating to the game that you are buying."

#13195 2 years ago
Quoted from mufcmufc:

You have a point, but you made me look
http://www.heighwaypinball.com/terms-and-conditions/
So no panic for 21 days, why should they not keep to their terms? I know I would, especially considering this:
"What is my deposit being used for?
The game has already been developed. Your hard-earned money is being used for parts relating to the game that you are buying."

Not sure how long you've been following this thread but there were several instances of people asking for refunds, getting little or no response, and those refunds taking a long time.

#13196 2 years ago

All is well again for me, can`t wait to play this game. Great video.

28
#13197 2 years ago

Just a quiet hello from the silent majority. I'm fine thanks. Plenty to do while I'm waiting. If you are reading this thread and getting upset with the intervibe, then of course grab a refund and help move me up the line. There is certainly nothing wrong with anyone jumping out, but for the sake of balance, and balance only, just remember the vast majority of preorders are not making any noise at all.

#13198 2 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Just a quiet hello from the silent majority. I'm fine thanks. Plenty to do while I'm waiting. If you are reading this thread and getting upset with the intervibe, then of course grab a refund and help move me up the line. There is certainly nothing wrong with anyone jumping out, but for the sake of balance, and balance only, just remember the vast majority of preorders are not making any noise at all.

Yes, Yes, and Thank you!

10
#13199 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

It was pretty obvious that Heighway has integrity and is an upfront business, despite what some of you like to infer.

2 years ago you were saying the same thing about skit-b. You were completely and utterly wrong about them... you'd think this would give you pause speaking for others again...

#13200 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

2 years ago you were saying the same thing about skit-b. You were completely and utterly wrong about them... you'd think this would give you pause speaking for others again...

It's a little different don't you think? He's received TWO games from Highway and service from Highway already. So not exactly "apples to apples".

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