(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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  • 24,458 posts
  • 984 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by MK6PIN
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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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Topic index (key posts)

51 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 24458 posts in this topic. You are on page 183 of 490.
#9101 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yes, this is a machine to get right. I really don't think anyone is expecting it before Feb/March of next year. No need to rush it out. Measure twice, cut once....

Agreed. As much as it pains me to say this, I'd be more than happy to wait longer to make sure everything is "just right."

#9102 2 years ago
Quoted from matt_adams:

4 emails so far and tried calling 3 times today, no one picking up!!!!

Our phone had an issue this morning but is working fine now.

I sent you a text Matt - did you receive it?

#9103 2 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

^^^ I really respect that when you turn down an idea, you bring up an alternative solution. I SO welcome that where I work. It's easy to bitch; it takes effort to come up with an alternative or solution. Bravo!

separates the men from the boys in all areas of life...

#9104 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Eh, you remember there's a time difference right?
Also, are you really ordering via CoinTaker when in the UK? AFAIK there are UK distributors.

I'm in the UK!

#9105 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

Our phone had an issue this morning but is working fine now.
I sent you a text Matt - did you receive it?

Andy has text me now so hopefully sorted.

12
#9106 2 years ago

If they get the code right, fix the air lock, you know David Thiel has hit a grand slam, this pin could be the biggest hit of 2017.

Yep, looking awesome!

-12
#9107 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

So, in order to have an opinion on pinball art, I need to go out and convince a pinball company to give me a 2nd job I don't need or want?
Okeedokeee
Sorry, regardless of whether I want to or am capable of doing your job or not...I'm a potential customer. These are my opinions as a potential customer. Why do I need a more nuanced opinion other than "This looks unappealing" ? Again, I'm not the only one with this opinion...sales will tell the truth.

I'm purely just talking about art, though. Game of Thrones was a popular theme but the reaction to the art was overwhelmingly negative. I'm a GOT fan and a Steve Ritchie fan, but the art alone made the game a hard pass for me.

Shows what you know, GoT seems to be liked and regarded as a pretty darn good game.

If I didn't know better, and maybe I don't, you seem to be a Kaneda lackey. Gotta chime in every time with your nuanced and obviously, in your mind, correct "opinion". We get it, you don't like Aliens, you don't like FT, you don't like the art and you dont like Heighway.

Move on already, sheesh.

#9108 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Shows what you know, GoT seems to be liked and regarded as a pretty darn good game.
If I didn't know better, and maybe I don't, you seem to be a Kaneda lackey. Gotta chime in every time with your nuanced and obviously, in your mind, correct "opinion". We get it, you don't like Aliens, you don't like FT, you don't like the art and you dont like Heighway.
Move on already, sheesh.

Clearly you've never read a thing I've written. I've barely a written a thing about Aliens and I'm constantly chiming in with how much I like Heighway's kit approach, lit cabinets, etc. Kaneda has railed against me constantly on his podcast. But yeah, you got me all figured out....

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#9109 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I mean, you're not wrong, but let me clarify a bit, just to settle people's nerves.
The games at Expo were prototypes, and one of them was rushed to be finished in time for the show. They had little issues. Like at the party the scoop failed (we figured out why and it's not a problem now) and there was a napkin stuffed in it to keep the ball from getting stuck!
And yet, even with the issues, everyone was super positive. They recognized that we were putting these out in public for the first time, and were very understanding of hiccups. They saw the vision, they saw it flip, and they got it. Feedback was great!
I bring this up because even with all the understanding and positive vibes, no one was digging the airlock. It was the one thing I heard complaints about. Heard a lot of "Joker coffee can" references. And to be straight up blunt I didn't like it either. Why is it round? Sure, helps it spin, but it makes no sense for the airlock to be curved.
Then once it spins around the Queen sculpt that Matt did is great. But the scale just feels weird next to the Xeno head. Heard that a lot too. Not Matt's fault, he couldn't make it bigger, but all of the pieces keep putting out the same message: this isn't working, this isn't right.
We'd be morons to not listen to feedback like that. And so one of the things I did after Expo was write a long email (you guys know how long I can get) breaking down how I saw the issues and pitching an alternative idea.
The team is on board with my suggestion, but until we test it we don't want to announce it. But when I saw the complaint about the airlock I felt like I wanted to address it, and say "yes, you're right, we hear you, we're going to make it better".
If my idea works out I think it will make way more sense, not just for the game, but also why it's a reasonable change to make. So just give us some time to test things out before we make any promises, but know that nobody is trying to introduce new delays, just trying to make sure we get things right.

How is the queen shot generally used? Is it like a mode start shot, a bash target (like the castle in Medieval Madness), or something else?

#9110 2 years ago

Post you replied to addressed CoinTaker, hence the confusion.

#9111 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Shows what you know, GoT seems to be liked and regarded as a pretty darn good game.
If I didn't know better, and maybe I don't, you seem to be a Kaneda lackey. Gotta chime in every time with your nuanced and obviously, in your mind, correct "opinion". We get it, you don't like Aliens, you don't like FT, you don't like the art and you dont like Heighway.
Move on already, sheesh.

GOT blows.

12
#9112 2 years ago

LOL...that's subjective, but I was specifically talking about the art - which I think almost everyone will admit BLOWS.

#9113 2 years ago

Lots of great comments lately. Really enjoying the insight pinsiders are bringing to the table.

-10
#9114 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

LOL...that's subjective, but I was specifically talking about the art - which I think almost everyone will admit BLOWS.

Gameplay and rules blow even more than the artwork.

#9115 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Gameplay and rules blow even more than the artwork.

Just to clarify for those just joining the thread, this comment is not directed at Alien. It refers to Game Of Thrones.

#9116 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Gameplay and rules blow even more than the artwork.

Shame you didn't like it Rob. I know you had a premium, but my GOT pro is a pretty sweet game. Deep ruleset, multiple strategies, fast as hell.

Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks.

rd

20
#9117 2 years ago

It's pretty clear there are some intent on trying to do harm to this launch and Heighway pinball. It's the way it is behind the scenes with some of the sleazy tactics taken by other pin makers.

It won't matter though, at the end of the day, the product will speak for itself, good or bad. Looking great so far!

If Andrew lives up to the promise of pins shipping this year, then what a great exciting start it will be.

Some people need to be careful crossing over the line into slander, libel and tortious interference territory, just saying.

If you are excited about the pin, whether you support it now or later is a different issue. Jump in now or wait until its out and see how it actually plays, as usual, the latter is smarter most of the time but not for everybody, so we'll see what happens!

#9118 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Some people need to be careful crossing over the line into slander, libel and tortious interference territory, just saying

I'm surprised there haven't been some lawyers letters served already, to be quite honest.

rd

#9119 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Shame you didn't like it Rob. I know you had a premium, but my GOT pro is a pretty sweet game. Deep ruleset, multiple strategies, fast as hell.
Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks.
rd

Exactly RD. I am sure that I would like the pro better since it doesn't have the lame mini PF. I know that Eskaybee loves his GOT pro.

#9120 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Exactly RD. I am sure that I would like the pro better since it doesn't have the lame mini PF. I know that Eskaybee loves his GOT pro.

I haven't played the premium/LE much, so I haven't learnt the rules associated with the upper playfield.

But I was guided by top 20 player Franck Bona when he said (adopt a very French accent when saying this out loud ..)

"The collector, he will choose the premium as it is very beeeeeautiful game! (Sic!) But the player will always choose the pro moddddddel because it has better flooooooow!"

rd

#9121 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If Andrew lives up to the promise of pins shipping this year, then what a great exciting start it will be.

Is this the latest promise?

Because I'm having a hard time believing that Alien pins will be shipping to owners in less than 60 days from today.

#9122 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Gameplay and rules blow even more than the artwork.

LOL...I don't mind playing the Pro on location, but I'd never own one due to the art and monochrome video-rips. I don't even remotely understand the rules, but I can't say I don't like them...I'd have to understand them more to judge them! Although, not understanding the rules, I got to Hand of the King and Winter is Coming ...is that good? I dunno. It plays like a smooth Steve Ritchie game, and on location that's good enough for me!

#9123 2 years ago

Let's start to freak out again

#9124 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Let's start to freak out again

freakout.gif

#9125 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Exactly RD. I am sure that I would like the pro better since it doesn't have the lame mini PF. I know that Eskaybee loves his GOT pro.

I had a GoT Pro and loved it, really a blast to play and it's fast, has tremendous flow and a great combo system. Art was lousy, but I like the translite and cabinet fine, just the playfield was very sparse for such a cool license.

I then traded GoT for a TWD Pro, just because someone was looking to do that exact trade and I figured I've seen all GoT had to offer, even though I still found it very fun.

TWD was then traded a little while later for X-Men LE. I really enjoyed modding TWD and playing it, but it was a very tough game with some cheap drains. I find XMLE to be a complete package for me - art, speed, flow, combos, modes and theme - and super fun to play and get lost in the X-Men world of battling villains, etc.

I'm hoping Alien gets everything right like XMLE does in my eyes, and then some.

#9126 2 years ago

Alieeeeeennn
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#9127 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Is this the latest promise?
Because I'm having a hard time believing that Alien pins will be shipping to owners in less than 60 days from today.

Seeing is believing my brother but I'm hopeful

Yep, I like GOT pro much better. I hate that upper PF, feels like it was just jammed in there for no real purpose

#9128 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I'm hoping Alien gets everything right like XMLE does in my eyes, and then some.

#9129 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I'm hoping Alien gets everything right like XMLE does in my eyes, and then some.

Oh no. You posted a positive X-men comment. Rarehero's brain just exploded, he may take a break from GB bashing to take up X-men bashing again

#9130 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

Oh no. You posted a positive X-men comment. Rarehero's brain just exploded, he may take a break from GB bashing to take up X-men bashing again

That's why there's a vast selection of pins to choose from. I have no idea of any past history of XMLE, or prior possible code deficiencies, nor any preconceived notion of why I shouldn't enjoy the game. It's a great theme for me and I have so much fun playing it. Plus, with the ColorDMD it looks amazing. Other opinions only matter to me if it ever comes time to sell or trade it, until then, bash away.

#9131 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

Oh no. You posted a positive X-men comment. Rarehero's brain just exploded, he may take a break from GB bashing to take up X-men bashing again

How about bashing people for having opinions about pinball machines? That seems to be the thing around here these days...wait, let me put on my pinball brainwashing helmet....

everything-is-awesome (resized).png

Quoted from PoMC:

That's why there's a vast selection of pins to choose from. I have no idea of any past history of XMLE, or prior possible code deficiencies, nor any preconceived notion of why I shouldn't enjoy the game.

It doesn't have a good reputation, so it's not the type of game most of us hope Alien to emulate.

#9132 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I find XMLE to be a complete package for me - art, speed, flow, combos, modes and theme - and super fun to play and get lost in the X-Men world of battling villains, etc.
I'm hoping Alien gets everything right like XMLE does in my eyes, and then some.

You're my new hero.

Surprising how often I hear this now ... Time Bandit has sold a lot of his games (bye bye hobbit! Bye bye GB!) and prefers XMLE.

I like GOT pro and TWD pro too, all theee of them are great games, all for different reasons.

rd

15
#9133 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

How is the queen shot generally used? Is it like a mode start shot, a bash target (like the castle in Medieval Madness), or something else?

Trying to steer this thread back to an actual discussion of Alien...

The Airlock/Queen shot is a scoop. Its most common purpose is to start and end modes. Start is obvious. All modes have some objective that must be fulfilled, and once fulfilled, you shoot the Airlock shot again to officially "win" the mode. Winning a mode awards a portion of the total points earned in the mode as multipliable bonus, awards a weapon, and boosts the value of the wizard modes. Many (not all) modes remain playable once the win is qualified, so there is strategic choice available at that point to try to run up the score before cashing out the win... if you time out or drain out without shooting that final Airlock shot, you don't get awarded the bonus goodies for the win.

The Airlock/Queen shot is also a progress shot in some modes (certainly all of the ones involving the Queen, like Queen's Nest and Loader Battle) and a jackpot shot in at least one multiball.

#9134 2 years ago

What I would like Alien to replicate from X-Men, and from a lot of other great machines, is great gameplay. THE thing that keeps your machine in your house is how much entertainment you get from playing it. They come for the bling, they stay for the game.
Things are LOOKING good on Alien right now. I am hoping the gameplay (I'm looking at you, BALANCED SCORING) comes through. Right now, looks like the team is aware of that, so let's go!

#9135 2 years ago

Thanks for chiming in and dropping anchor, this thread was starting to drift. Sounds like Alien will have the kind of code a home buyer will really appreciate.

Quoted from Ferret:

I've written and maintained our internal rule sheet for the game (that I use as a task list / checklist, and David Thiel and Kelly Mazurowski use as their guide for what A/V assets they need to provide), and it's about 20 pages long, filled with, hopefully, interesting subtleties.

Will there be a players guide in some fashion made available once games are shipping?

So many of these expensive complex games with deep rules and nuanced programing seem to come with nothing more than an index card on the apron.

#9136 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

Oh no. You posted a positive X-men comment. Rarehero's brain just exploded, he may take a break from GB bashing to take up X-men bashing again

Does this mean that Rarehero has more of a reputation for bashing X-men than I do?

#9137 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Does this mean that Rarehero has more of a reputation for bashing X-men than I do?

pass-the-baton-960x250 (resized).jpg

#9138 2 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Things are LOOKING good on Alien right now. I am hoping the gameplay (I'm looking at you, BALANCED SCORING) comes through. Right now, looks like the team is aware of that, so let's go!

What exactly is balanced scoring?

To me balanced scoring has the inference that there should not be a shot that can be worth a ton of points. For example, IM has the Do or Die shot that can be worth 50 million points (on older code). Is that balanced? It takes a fair amount of skill to set up that shot. To me, the DoD shot is one of the best things about the pin. I think it was determined that 50 million was a bit too high, so they reduced the DoD shot to 35 million in a later update (I still prefer the 50 million and have kept the old code because of it).

What about the huge song jackpots that you can build up on AC/DC? Is that balanced scoring?

What about stacking the 3 multiballs on BSD, making each jackpot worth 30 million points? Is that balanced scoring?

If not, then I don't want balanced scoring. One of my criticisms of Hobbit is that the scoring is a bit lacking in what I call "dynamic scoring" where once you get to a certain mode or achieve a certain goal, you get the opportunity to score some pretty huge points. These should not be easy to get to obviously, but without this type of reward to go for, and pin can lack in the adrenaline rush that I look for in a pin.

I hope that Alien will give us that dynamic scoring potential.

#9139 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

What exactly is balanced scoring?
To me balanced scoring has the inference that there should not be a shot that can be worth a ton of points. For example, IM has the Do or Die shot that can be worth 50 million points (on older code). Is that balanced? It takes a fair amount of skill to set up that shot. To me, the DoD shot is one of the best things about the pin. I think it was determined that 50 million was a bit too high, so they reduced the DoD shot to 35 million in a later update (I still prefer the 50 million and have kept the old code because of it).
What about the huge song jackpots that you can build up on AC/DC? Is that balanced scoring?
What about stacking the 3 multiballs on BSD, making each jackpot worth 30 million points? Is that balanced scoring?
If not, then I don't want balanced scoring. One of my criticisms of Hobbit is that the scoring is a bit lacking in what I call "dynamic scoring" where once you get to a certain mode or achieve a certain goal, you get the opportunity to score some pretty huge points. These should not be easy to get to obviously, but without this type of reward to go for, and pin can lack in the adrenaline rush that I look for in a pin.
I hope that Alien will give us that dynamic scoring potential.

This is something that a tournament mode should address

#9140 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

What exactly is balanced scoring?

That's a good request for clarification. I wrote the word "balanced" on the fly and was actually not completely happy with it. In greater detail, I really meant balanced in that you get what you work for, or that you get paid commensurately for risks you take. If you feel you are doing good work, then expect to be paid for it. I sometimes feel a game pays off for no real reason and the thing starts to feel like a slot machine. Big points that I get by accident are not really that satisfying. Yes, you can get something by accident, and then use that accident to investigate further and try and replicate the payoff..that's sort of standard pinball learning, but on a good machine you will rarely blow it up by accident.

#9141 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

These should not be easy to get to obviously, but without this type of reward to go for, and pin can lack in the adrenaline rush that I look for in a pin.
I hope that Alien will give us that dynamic scoring potential.

yes, well put.

#9142 2 years ago

Luckily , this game is being programmed by 2 excellent tournament players, so i am confident that they are aware of what makes a game unbalanced.

#9143 2 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

That's a good request for clarification. I wrote the word "balanced" on the fly and was actually not completely happy with it. In greater detail, I really meant balanced in that you get what you work for, or that you get paid commensurately for risks you take. If you feel you are doing good work, then expect to be paid for it. I sometimes feel a game pays off for no real reason and the thing starts to feel like a slot machine. Big points that I get by accident are not really that satisfying. Yes, you can get something by accident, and then use that accident to investigate further and try and replicate the payoff..that's sort of standard pinball learning, but on a good machine you will rarely blow it up by accident.

Excellent post!

This is a great definition for balanced scoring. Thanks!

#9144 2 years ago

Ok, we're drifting here. It's about time for a Ripley picture to bring us back.

#9145 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How about bashing people for having opinions about pinball machines? That seems to be the thing around here these days...wait, let me put on my pinball brainwashing helmet....

It was a joke, hence the smiley face.

24
#9146 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Is this the latest promise?
Because I'm having a hard time believing that Alien pins will be shipping to owners in less than 60 days from today.

I know the spotlight is on us.

At this point - we must deliver. Everyone on our team knows that.

We are pushing very hard at this point.

We have missed some deadlines in the past, and hit some deadlines in the past.

Shipping as many Alien games this year, as possible, is our number one objective.

We aim to give you regular updates over the coming days and weeks. This will include parts arriving, cabinets being assembled, playfields being assembled, etc...

Our prototypes arrived back this afternoon - finally. We will shoot some gameplay videos as soon as possible and then post them accordingly.

-1
#9147 2 years ago

Back on target.....Back on target.

#9148 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

I know the spotlight is on us.
At this point - we must deliver. Everyone on our team knows that.
We are pushing very hard at this point.
We have missed some deadlines in the past, and hit some deadlines in the past.
Shipping as many Alien games this year, as possible, is our number one objective.
We aim to give you regular updates over the coming days and weeks. This will include parts arriving, cabinets being assembled, playfields being assembled, etc...
Our prototypes arrived back this afternoon - finally. We will shoot some gameplay videos as soon as possible and then post them accordingly.

13
#9149 2 years ago
Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

I know the spotlight is on us.
At this point - we must deliver. Everyone on our team knows that.
We are pushing very hard at this point.
We have missed some deadlines in the past, and hit some deadlines in the past.
Shipping as many Alien games this year, as possible, is our number one objective.
We aim to give you regular updates over the coming days and weeks. This will include parts arriving, cabinets being assembled, playfields being assembled, etc...
Our prototypes arrived back this afternoon - finally. We will shoot some gameplay videos as soon as possible and then post them accordingly.

Pulling for you Andrew man...I'd love to see Stern finally get some real competition.

16
#9150 2 years ago
Quoted from Yipykya:

Will there be a players guide in some fashion made available once games are shipping?
So many of these expensive complex games with deep rules and nuanced programing seem to come with nothing more than an index card on the apron.

I don't know the answer; that's up to Andrew. My personal preference would be to offer a basic guide to gameplay (perhaps on YouTube, as was done for Full Throttle), but NOT publish our entire rulebook. For me, a big part of the joy of a new game, whether on location or as a home owner, is the discovery process: finding the tricks to boosting scores, finding the right combination of features to stack, learning that how you do on this thing influences that thing over there. Publishing the full rules would short-circuit most of that discovery experience.

The balanced scoring question is a good one, and a topic that's come up over and over again amongst the design team. IMHO TimeBandit's definition is really on point:

Quoted from TimeBandit:

In greater detail, I really meant balanced in that you get what you work for, or that you get paid commensurately for risks you take. If you feel you are doing good work, then expect to be paid for it.

Alien's scoring is generally designed around chain reactions. As an example: destroying eggs increases the value of modes that involve eggs (Derelict Ship and Queen's Nest). Doing well in modes increases the value of the associated mini-wizard mode, as well as the final wizard mode. Doing well in modes also gives weapons that you can use to boost your scoring in other modes or multiballs.

However, I've tried to scale things so the scoring progressions are more Fibonacci-ish rather than exponential. That means that Alien won't have many situations of "OMG that one shot that was worth more than my last 5 game scores combined" ... but it also shouldn't have many situations of putting players "in jail" where you screw up one thing and your scoring potential goes completely down the drain. Hopefully everyone finds the balance to be fair and fun. And of course, if any of the scoring is out of whack (and let's be realistic, SOMETHING will probably be out of whack in the initial version... probably multiple somethings... I'm quite interested to learn what exploit someone like KME comes up with!) I'm committed to making it right.

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