It's not about having a "color explosion"...Ghostbusters & Batman have cohesive styles in terms of character design, composition, and color. The P3 games do not have this. Sorry, I'm trying to be constructive and not attack...but GB and B66 look professionally designed. P3 games look amateurish. They remind me of 99 Cent Store coloring books filled in with water colors. Forget Stern's recent games...just look at how some B/W translites look in terms of how they're composed and painted. Here are some cartoony ones for reference. Please tell me you see the difference in design and rendering? I'm sorry - the art direction for P3 so far will not earn you sales. Pinball buyers view their games as art...being attractive to look at is a big part of why people bring games into their homes.

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I came on board to help them after I commented on the Lexy art. CL had a very specific target audience (not pinheads) and working with volunteer resources. I think, given the restrictions everyone was working under, the final product on CL is much improved.

The CL translight looks a lot better in person when it's properly lit, but that's another topic.

When I gave my opinion on the Lexy artwork and then was approached to help the art effort on the next games, I put my money where my mouth was and stepped up to help, because my motivation was to improve pinball in general. I think I had a positive effect on the art package. If you think you can do a better job, I'm sure they'd be thrilled to get your help as well.

Ohp, I was waiting for the "if you can do it better" ...hey- I might be able to, I might not...I'm not here to tell you I'm better. It's not personal. I have a full-time job directing art and animation, I have no interest or time to get into pinball art....but I can look at something and have an opinion and give useful feedback. It's not just me...c'mon, you know others share this opinion, as you have not seen any applause from the pinball community about the artwork on these games. You saw how people reacted to GB's art. That says it all. I think out of respect for Gerry and the platform, people haven't been too chatty about it...and I know Gerry probably wants to smack me every time I bring it up. However, my criticism is out of my love of the P3 platform...I've been a fan of it since I played it at the Pacific Pinball Expo. I think it's a brilliant design and has massive potential for beautiful and fun games...but it's that brilliant design that presents its biggest challenge - the art and animation have to be excellent for the whole package to come together.

Agreed, and you're not alone in thinking that, a lot of people brought it up, it was probably the only really negative feedback from Expo frankly, even with things not working right all the time on the protos. And you won't find internal disagreement, so (clears throat for Stern voice) stay tuned.

With respect, the interest in a popular theme by an established and industry-leading company is almost always going to blow away initial interest in a paradigm-changing startup and an original theme. There are of course exceptions, but introducing big change into an industry so strongly rooted in tradition is its own challenge, and we're overcoming it, slowly but surely. I won't argue that LL-EE artwork has seen its share of criticism, but I do find the comparison to 90's video games interesting, since that's exactly what Dennis Nordman's vision for the game was. Whether or not that was the right choice is up for debate. I really like it.

I won't argue with that either.

Thanks for saying that. While in a perfect world we'd hit home runs on the platform and on every art packages, it's of paramount importance at this stage to make sure the platform is built properly. The artwork, especially when it's as easy to replace as it is on the P3, can be improved over time (or not, depending on business tradeoffs). If anybody is interested in developing alternative artwork for any P3 game, please contact me. We might even sponsor the effort, but at the very least we'd consider licensing assets and helping you sell the resulting artwork.

Trying to bring this back on topic so I can step out of this thread semi-graciously... the Heighway platform clearly has swappable artwork too. People have such varying opinions on art that having the ability to swap it is an enormously important feature. I envision there being multiple art packages for some of the more popular games.

... and I played Alien at Expo (in the side room with the glass off) and enjoyed it. I strangely found myself looking at the upper screen instead of the playfield one, and I honestly can't explain that since I'm so used to keeping my eyes on the playfield of the P3. The big screen looks great, IMO.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

You have an opportunity to actually do something about it, and perhaps expand your perspective on the subject so you can have a more nuanced opinion. I know I do.

By posting your opinion you clearly show an interest in pinball art, but if I had a dollar for every time a client said "punch it up!" I'd be a millionaire - that sort of advice is meaningless. Better to actively guide an art team with constructive guidance and directly influence the outcome. As for having no time, I worked on that project part time while having a full time job and a newborn baby, so that's not really much of an excuse either.

Thinking of changing that spinning Queen airlock toy huh? Well I'm sure you've got some extra Valentinos lying around. One small change.....problem solved

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Seriously though, I think a smaller space jockey chair might look good there. When the start mode scoop is ready, it could start spinning? Just a thought

So, in order to have an opinion on pinball art, I need to go out and convince a pinball company to give me a 2nd job I don't need or want?

Okeedokeee

Sorry, regardless of whether I want to or am capable of doing your job or not...I'm a potential customer. These are my opinions as a potential customer. Why do I need a more nuanced opinion other than "This looks unappealing" ? Again, I'm not the only one with this opinion...sales will tell the truth.

I'm purely just talking about art, though. Game of Thrones was a popular theme but the reaction to the art was overwhelmingly negative. I'm a GOT fan and a Steve Ritchie fan, but the art alone made the game a hard pass for me.

No, you're welcome to the opinion. We actually agree on a few points I think. But when offered the chance to put your opinion to practice, you decline. To me that lessens the value of that opinion if you're not willing to back it up. You may disagree, that's fine. It's a lot easier to put something down than to do something about it.

So anyone who has the opinion that the art could be improved has lesser value to you if they're unwilling to seek out pinball art employment?

Seriously, wtf do you want me to do about it? Tell Gerry to fire you and hire me? No - sorry, it's your job to do your job.

There is a difference in knowing that something needs help, and being able to spend the time doing it. Why should a potential customer have to step in and expend their own resources just to bring a product up to the quality of something they would buy?

Everyone has their own stuff going on. Don't overlook valuable feedback just because someone can't spend the time to fix it themselves.

Aurich is the only person I have ever put on ignore and since that time my blood pressure has gone from 155/102 to 118/78.

Thanks Ignore Button!!

Awesome!

Anybody thinking this isn't the place for discussions on P3's art?
Somebody say something alien related. The rest of you STFU. No , i will not be nice.

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Best thing for him IMO.

Agreed. I've been wanting to say something.

Looking forward to some more gameplay video from Heighway once their games arrive back! The shackles are off now so no reason why we can't start seeing more stuff.

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We already have the visual representation of the space jockey pretty well established for the game. Popping it in place of the queen airlock wouldn't actually solve much since the biggest criticism was that people found the Queen's scale next to the xenomorph rather underwhelming, and the same scale issue would happen if we were to attempt this.

I'd rather not hear that major playfield pieces are getting changed to be honest. There comes a point at which you have to say "It's done." and get over the things you wish you could have done better. I mean, how can such a thing be changing, and yet Heighway be "in production"?

I'd be willing to bet that anyone with money down or intentionally waiting for the game to become available for purchase would agree with Expo hands-on consensus that this component required reworking and would be happy to wait for a superior finished product, if indeed this does create a delay — which it may not.

How much do you want to bet? I have money down and played it at Expo.

Please don't bump posts that are 17 days old from people that are banned from the thread.

Because 'production' simply means they've started making 'stuff'. Ordering the components, building sub-assemblies, etc.. this is all 'production'. not necessarily 'assembling playfields'

Are you all of a sudden a moderator now?

But clearly not all the sub assemblies, if they're altering the design a major one. It's tough to truly be in production while still working on the design.

And please understand I am a big fan of Andrew and the team, and no one that doesn't work for or have ownership in the company is rooting more for them than I am.

Anyways I'll let it go because whatever is happening is already in motion. All I can do now is hope the game isn't delayed much more, or the game play is hugely improved because of it, or both. But the question of whether it's really fair to ask for further payment at this time is, I think, a fair one.

As a reminder, here's a great post from a couple weeks ago with some of the things to be worked on, including a mention of the airlock toy...

Did anyone hear that music during Tunnel Escape, thats simply amazing, for me like Seige mode in TWD or Horde, those moments are super rare in pinball, I think this pin will do some serious blowing of minds in a home environment with darkness and good volume, how couldn't it, very excited.

Playing it at expo w headphones at expo, EVEN w a 60" LED blaring like shit( with sports) right over the top of it was still a defining moment. The reveal had amazing vibe, imho.....no blankets, no huge marketing buildup, no " leave the room and come back"...just a badass machine stuffed in a bar w mob environment.....almost like some kind of secret release that was a true game changer. Really, really glad I was there to witness pb history....I've got the T shirt to prove it....

Just can't describe how immersive the game is. Hope everyone gets to play one someday....

Might be "pinball poor" now, but am blown away with the chance to grab a nostalgia grail ( BM66LE) , and SciFi grail ( ALIENLE)....no way I could be more excited to add these....

Two out of three...!

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Just waiting for release to order both a Full Throttle and Alien conversion. Pretty excited and watching Alien now.

Tommy Floyd
www.NITROPINBALL.com
Toll Free: 1-855-366-4876

Then you may appreciate this

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Feel bad for bad mouthing Cointaker when I finally got in touch with Melissa and learned they were/are having email server issues. Should be fixed soon and Melissa was helpful as always, just some dumb tech problems. If you're not ordering direct and in the US Cointaker has been great so far, give them your business/money!

Another strong recommendation for CoinTaker, Chris and Melissa. My FTh LE was delivered last week and I am very happy with the game and Cointaker's performance.

I have to put it out there that nitro helped every step of the way when I had a few small issues . Buy with confidence from tommy , while in Canada !

I mean, you're not wrong, but let me clarify a bit, just to settle people's nerves.

The games at Expo were prototypes, and one of them was rushed to be finished in time for the show. They had little issues. Like at the party the scoop failed (we figured out why and it's not a problem now) and there was a napkin stuffed in it to keep the ball from getting stuck!

And yet, even with the issues, everyone was super positive. They recognized that we were putting these out in public for the first time, and were very understanding of hiccups. They saw the vision, they saw it flip, and they got it. Feedback was great!

I bring this up because even with all the understanding and positive vibes, no one was digging the airlock. It was the one thing I heard complaints about. Heard a lot of "Joker coffee can" references. And to be straight up blunt I didn't like it either. Why is it round? Sure, helps it spin, but it makes no sense for the airlock to be curved.

Then once it spins around the Queen sculpt that Matt did is great. But the scale just feels weird next to the Xeno head. Heard that a lot too. Not Matt's fault, he couldn't make it bigger, but all of the pieces keep putting out the same message: this isn't working, this isn't right.

We'd be morons to not listen to feedback like that. And so one of the things I did after Expo was write a long email (you guys know how long I can get) breaking down how I saw the issues and pitching an alternative idea.

The team is on board with my suggestion, but until we test it we don't want to announce it. But when I saw the complaint about the airlock I felt like I wanted to address it, and say "yes, you're right, we hear you, we're going to make it better".

If my idea works out I think it will make way more sense, not just for the game, but also why it's a reasonable change to make. So just give us some time to test things out before we make any promises, but know that nobody is trying to introduce new delays, just trying to make sure we get things right.

^^^ I really respect that when you turn down an idea, you bring up an alternative solution. I SO welcome that where I work. It's easy to bitch; it takes effort to come up with an alternative or solution. Bravo!

4 emails so far and tried calling 3 times today, no one picking up!!!!

I hope its a P 5000 powerloader that spins around.. It fits in theme and fits in size / scale

--Jeff

2 words: Cat Head

Try sending him a message via PM, it worked for me.

Eh, you remember there's a time difference right?

Also, are you really ordering via CoinTaker when in the UK? AFAIK there are UK distributors.

Come on cat...

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For the queen

I thought you guys were on to something with the second LCD, make a plastic frame that looks like the outer part of the airlock and most of the time have the inner doors closed on the screen but when in queen battle mode it could be an animated battle between the loader/ripley and the queen (except it doesnt sound like you can show images of ripley..)

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Yes, this is a machine to get right. I really don't think anyone is expecting it before Feb/March of next year. No need to rush it out. Measure twice, cut once....