I don't care.

Because it's still early days, both the companies you cited are new and have achieved an enormous amount in the last few years. They started from nothing and are now on the verge of manufacturing these swappable systems. When they are up and running and producing in quantity buyers will get behind them.

6. And only now would be getting its proper code update, maybe.

Why start a discussion with a Phantom? Almost more stupid than the things he is talking about

dont waste your time, timebandit.

User is Kaneda once again (if not him then an obvious dup account with some issues and an axe to grind). The guy has some serious issues. Best practice is to just ignore him and click the report to mod team button. He is not even remotely part of the hobby. His hobby appears being an internet troll as he spends hours of his days trolling arcade, pinball, and even collectible figurine websites. He has little knowledge of anything pinball, has only owned 2 games ever (which he pays top dollar for since he has no idea how to actually work on them), and most notable aspect of the pinball hobby is him getting booted from Pinside multiple times to the point of starting a podcast so now you can listen to all the glorious improper pronunciation, misunderstood pinball vocabulary, and ignorance first hand if you like.
The sad part of it all is that Chris is actually a decent guy in real life and he just wants a couple friends, but has still not learned how to make friends. Toss on the fact that any interaction can be assumed to become part of his further online hate fueled rage or obsession with podcasting about people rather than pinball, and I have learned to just ignore him rather than even give him a chance to become a friend again. I tried to give him a chance at an event last year, which it then became obvious was just storyboard for his podcast. I have since stopped listening and throw his dup accounts on ignore. Trolls just crave attention. Unfortunately with Chris he seems to have some deep seated issues. Normal trolls tend to disappear after so much effort is needed to maintain multiple fake accounts. Chris seems to just feed off the negative interaction and like to go scorched earth on anyone that even attempts to be a friend. Life is too short to deal with this amount of negative energy. Best to just ignore.

On topic, I was originally planning to buy an Aliens kit to swap into the FullT cab like you timebandit. Now I am thinking full Aliens game. FullT is still a top earner on route so no reason to swap it out at this stage.

For any operators out there. If you want to talk percentages, feel free to reach out. You all know what games we have out and we have put FullT at 2 of our 3 locations and it has done well at both. IMHE, FullT has been a good purchase for route and you should try it out if you are on the fence.

For the cab haters...

I think the Heighway cab is regal and a damn sight attractive. Can't wait to have this in my game room with the Alien LE art lit on the outside of the cab along with the lit blades on the inside. The word stunning comes to mind.

Drops mic...

a64dfe8cf9852866818b8bbc26dcbd4b7d4b231d (resized).jpg

Ooooops! Careful, your true colors are showing. Perhaps you should go back to class and retake Trolling 101, your getting sloppy.

This is bound to be of interest to a few of you.

http://comicbook.com/2016/10/29/star-trek-the-next-generation-and-aliens-crossover-announced/

No, I don't follow either and most people who play my pins aren't concerned at all regarding theme, they didn't lay out any money and will never collect pinball thusly don't care at all.

Yeah but Stern didn't do an Alien machine so another stupid point, and while I like Stern there wouldn't have been full RGB lighting, the Alien Head ball grabber, widebody, 27" LCD

Man I wish that was a movie instead of a book.

I'm not into motorcycles AT ALL. But FT is fun as hell. And in the midst of a game, who can't get into the general concept of winning a race? That main guy is so smug it made me want to beat his ass every time I played so I didn't have to listen to him laugh at me in disgust. I know this is sacrilege in this forum, but I'm more excited about getting FT than Alien based on the playing I did at expo. Alien was cool and I'm sure it will get better as it becomes production ready, but FT is fun in a "one more time" sort of way. Hopefully Alien will get to that point as well as it matures.

Unless a motorcycle ran over your grandmother or you've had some other traumatic moto experience, people need to get over the theme as if it's something you need to be passionate about in life and just play FT. It's such a vanilla theme it's easy to get past. It's not like WoZ that's totally in your face. It's a ton of fun and unlike any widebody I've ever played.

I don't see any huge issues with the cabinet but if I could recommend one visual improvement to make it work and give more unity: make the top angle of the artwork parallel to the slope of the pin instead of being parallel to the floor.

Trust me. It will make a huge difference (unless there are some technical restrictions preventing this).

Completely agree with everything you said, except Alien is a grail theme for me, so still trumps Full Throttle, preference wise.

I do find it amusing that a " non licensed" theme has been discussed in other threads like it's a major leap of faith, risky undertaking, etc. This is how Heighway STARTED their lineup....incredibly smart, imho. It seems others stated that unlicensed themes will get stronger over time as people get to play them. But yet here, some choose to bash the amount of units sold to date. I think Andrew and team are much wiser than given credit for.

Make a machine that plays great, nobody can bash the relevance to license ( well, except pinsiders), and prove you can actually produce and sell a title. I really couldn't believe how much I enjoyed playing the machine and how smooth and fast some of the shots were. The GAMEPLAY was very addicting, that's ultimately what it's all about.

My ALIENLE will stay as such, but I am now anxious s to hear about licensed title # 3, as I suspect there will be a Full Throttle playfield ordered with it.

2 other points that have been beat to death but need to be put to rest ( after seeing the machines):

Cabinet Art- Most gamerooms are dark. Artwork vanishes, but the lit side panels on these games looked badass!!! I spotted both Alien and Full Throttle through hundreds of people @ twin peaks reveal, and the visual for both was stunning, offset well by the " plain black wood sides" . Imagine if they ever developed interactive lit panels!!! Give it a rest.

Interchangeable playfield - Watch the video. 5 minutes on a bad day? Store the other one underneath w a shelf system? No, this hasn't been fucking done before ( like this) , and yes, it's very appealing for people with limited space or wanting to SAVE MONEY ON NEW TITLES!!! Isn't this the biggest complaint on here? Again, let it go.

( feels good to be away from work and rant a bit).....Mark

this is a dead horse troll topic. I don't fish but FT is fun. I don't go to magic shows but TOM is fun. I don't go rafting but WH2O is fun. I don't go to carnivals but FH is great. I can't Surf but Surf Champ is great. On and on and on.

It is a straw man argument.

Kaneda lemming...busted. Just can't put your rhetoric away...

It's not a fact. The only kit system so far was Pinball 2000...there was a SW Ep.1 Kit for RFM, but both games came out around the same time ...so operators just bought both units to put on location. Had Williams not shut their doors right after P2K was released, and more P2K titles been completed - you might have seen some kit use. Then again, it might have failed...with operators. And if so, well - that was the era of the operator. Today we're in the era of the collector. Not to mention an era where many collectors are upset with high prices. So - the kit concept might work quite well. However, if it doesn't...these companies aren't depending on the kit for success. It's just a cool option for the customer.

Nah, theme matters for nib prices. I bought a FT for $1400. FH for $1250. WH2O for $1200. I would
not have bought them for $6k. Also, regardless of theme - all of those classics have far superior art and toys. The art on Full Throttle is terrible and the torso of Bikemanguy is weird. An original theme has to look amazing and have a "holy shit" mechanical/interactive feature to get traction. So far P3, JJP, and Heighway have failed to see the importance of art direction on original themes. Strangely Jpop gets it, but can't figure out anything else lol

I think the art is cool and the game is fun so I bought a Full Throttle(with future titles in mind)...I guess that makes your entire argument false? Of course not but it does point out that it's 100% opinion stated as fact which is, of course, the internet! No offense, but let's all stop being know it all assholes please.

Issue is that a fully decked out LE, with two extra pf kits and a couple of optional extras will run to $20k ... it's not really a value option for most people put off by the new, insane pricing of NIB pinball. I think a lot of people were hoping that final pricing wouldn't be so high and that pf kits would come down in price a little.

Also, for operators, who this is mainly meant to appeal to, most are probably going to be able to buy 4 Stern Pros plus some left over change for the same figure. Or they could get a DI Standard and a Stern Pro for the same money as an Alien LE and FT kit .. or less than, if the FT kit comes with fibre optics. I think I know which option will offer a better return.

Certainly I know a few people who were really keen on the value prospect, but now that final pricing has been set, they're much less keen. It feels like a bit of a missed opportunity given how outraged people were about BM '66 and DI pricing.

I'm glad you like it but the fact that they've sold like 7 of them shows that my opinion is based on fact. The game has no traction, it's not selling well. Why is that? Combo art/theme/price.

I've got a lot of motorcycles, just got in from a nice ride this morning. I don't particularly care for the FT theme at all. But if it's a fun playing table I'll eventually add the playfield kit to what I eventually hope is a tall stack of them I'll store in a spare bedroom closet.

A different perspective...
I'm not a pin zealot but I might collect the PF kits like others collect pins. What's going to be nice is being able to yank one out I haven't played for a while just for a taste of something different, just as I do with my bikes. My large garage is full and yes some of the rooms adjacent to the garage, I keep bikes over at my dad's garage too, but I'm just not going to let pins overtake my home theater/play room. A couple is enough. My interest in pinball began about when Heighway got started up so the swappable idea is great for me. Fingers crossed.

It's a beautiful day outside today, I'm grabbing another and heading out...

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You're comparing "fully decked out LEs" with Standard and Pro models.

So, either compare LEs against LEs and SLEs, or Standards against Standards and Pros.

A stock Alien or FT is priced below Stern Premium. We're waiting to see what the Aerosmith Pro pricing with LCD will be, but will probably be near a stock Alien.

You can debate value, but keep it Apples vs Apples.

There seems to be significantly more demand for the LE featureset, if not the price, so essentially I am, and for comparative purposes there's not much 'pro' or 'standard' about JJP's standard model. The comparison still works if you use a DI LE though.

Also, there's no way any ops are not going to include the 27", EL blades and beacons with an Alien Standard, and I suspect most will include a shaker motor. That takes it to $7600 ... again, once you add a few options to an additional playfield kit, you might be looking at less money for a DI Standard and Stern Pro .... and bear in mind that both machines can earn simultaneously, rather than one pf kit resting.

Price, like most new machines, is going to give a lot of people much pause for thought.

more internet facts...you are funny

"The game has no traction, it's not selling well."

I didn't realize you had access to Heighway's internal sales #'s

I think the cabinet looks great in a dimmed light gameroom setting when the game is on.
Having less of the cabinet painted with art is a very small trade-off to me for the ability to have several games per cabinet.

But we do have access to the pinball community as a whole. So unless you are suggesting Heighway is predominately selling into some new, isolated market from the Hobbist... It's not a stretch to infer FullT didn't sell gangbusters.

I talked to Andrew about this at ReplayFX 2015, and he said the exact opposite. He said it was targeting the home buyer who often doesn't have as much space. (This was in response to me saying I don't care about swappable playfields as an operator. I'm going to sell the game, or move it to a different location, and not interested in having unused playfields sitting around without a cabinet.)

Edit: This isn't meant to take a side in the "swappable playfield" arguments. I don't really care either way. I do think it's neat. I hope it works. It just wouldn't save me any money...I'd be buying a new cabinet with each game regardless.

[Inflammatory remarks removed by moderator]

Have to agree with this. Kaneda is definitely not worth the time or effort to engage. He has proven himself time and time again to be the ultimate troll.

As Whysnow says, he himself gave him a second chance meeting him previously at Expo. They even took pictures together and posted them here. They seemed to want to put any prior issues aside. But how did that turn out in the end? As stated, Kaneda just used the personal interaction against him in a personal way on his stupid podcast. Sound familiar? It should, because Whysnow is far from the only one who gave Kaneda a second chance only to have it completely blow up in their face. Beelzeboob is another example.

How many times did Robin/Pinside give Kaneda a second/third/fourth chance, before finally having no choice but to perma-ban him?

There is a reason Kaneda has been banned from so many online forums.

Yep. Kaneda for sure.

4 people downvoted me, so I guess they've sold at least 4. C'mon, don't be naive. They clearly haven't sold many!!!

Edit: 35 Pinsiders list it in their collections. Compared to almost 500 Pinsiders with Ghostbusters (Pro/LE/Prem)

By sales standards, Full Throttle is a flop. Might be a great game...but theme and art have stifled its sales. This is a fact.

Yeah, but the Alien Apologist episode was spot on.

That was the proposed value when the games were made for operators.

But that was 15+ years ago, and not what HP aimed for. People seem to forget 'space' is not something not everyone is blessed with... especially if you happen to live in urban areas, or in places like say... Europe.. where houses are much smaller.

How often do we hear someone saying "gotta sell a game to make space.." - everyone is constrained to a reasonable degree.. some more than others. The HP system can help people with those needs.

Another false premise...you created it and then defeated it...congrats. You won your internal argument.
I have no idea how many they sold, how many they expected to sell, how many they will sell in kit or full game version and neither do you.

I wonder why you guys are hanging out in a thread of a manufacturer that you don't like their system, their art, their games..etc. Oh wait, I know. You're trolling. Check.

Omg, why are you being such a sensitive baby about it? I'd rather play Full Throttle than Ghostbusters. I'm not saying it's a bad game. I'm just pointing out that not many people have bought it compared to other new titles over the past few years. This is a fact. You have a rare game! Enjoy!!

I've stated multiple times I think Heighway's kit system is cool. But, continue to create your own reality....

I don't need to know those things to know... the games aren't very common in the Pinball Hobby. There is no 'false premise' in that.. it's factual observation. It's also observation backed with volunteered info like we have here on Pinside. We also know Pinside and other forums cover a sizable portion of the hobbyist market. So within that anecdotal measurement... we know the game is not well represented. So, what I do know is.. if you are arguing the game IS something BESIDES these observations... the game must be being sold into some other market not well represented in those segments. So what market is that?

Otherwise, your argument is nothing but you playing contrainian with zero to support your position except 'you don't know'. 'you dont know' doesn't COUNTER the stuff that has been measured.. it just acknowledges there are areas we don't know. But unless you can articulate how the game is doing something different, in markets we don't know about... You're just hot air.

This isn't trolling - it's just facing reality.

Heighway doesn't need FullT to do great anymore... that ship has sailed. All efforts are focused on Alien (as they should be). Alien has all the upside.. FullT has already shot it's load.

I get this kind of response a lot. It seems many of you project your passion on to others. You are the one who needs to "chill". Simply expressing a contradictory to the norm opinion does not mean someone is frothing at the mouth and melting down with panic attacks.

Ask your therapist about projection... I'm sure most of the rest of us don't have one to ask.

I'm sorry that I misinterpreted your apparent joke-style insulting hyperbole about their sales numbers and their art. I didn't get it that you were making up false arguments as a hilarious parody. It just didn't come through via the interweb. Carry-on! You're like a modern day Andy Kaufman! Great stuff man. I'm going to go cry now because you hurt my feelings.

No Alien updates to see here people...just idiots(myself included) arguing with each other on the internet.

Jeeze, you're thick!

Fact: The game hasn't sold well.

Fact: No one likes the theme or art

Put 2 and 2 together.

If you have actual facts to counter this, provide them. Otherwise you're just making yourself look like a delusional sycophant.

I am not willing to share actual numbers but happy to tell you that FullT has been on route for the past 12 months among 20-25 other games we put out.

It has consistently been a top 5 earning games for over 12 months.

Route players on location definately enjoy it enough to put money in it. The competition of games is pretty stiff also. Every new Stern for the past 3 years, Spooky games, JJP games.

I am not disputing that it has not sold as much as GB, but i will wholey debate that people dont like it. The coin box does not lie. People on route regularly choose FullT over other games and that has been steady for over 12 months (most games seen an exponential decline in play after 3-5 months).

I believe the intent of this thread to build hype and secure pre orders has failed.

The first several dozen pages of this thread realized that intent. However, at this point it seems to be doing more harm than good.

Just imagine a new customer who knows nothing about this project, coming into this thread now at this point.

This thread has become speculative mess with people arguing about how many full throttle units have moved....Really?

Lock it! Let someone else start some speculative alien thread in the meantime...at least it won't be the the manufacturers own "Alien Pinball Official Game Thread"

Start new with games on the line, games in containers, birds eye view promo videos of actual gameplay & a simple statement of "Games are shipping now!"

I'd say that Full Throttle generally impresses those who get a chance to play it, and that without having played the game the theme (for us Americans, anyway), and artwork aren't so compelling to stimulate a sight-unplayed(?) purchase, (similar to Dialed In). The other challenge is it's the first game from a new company, so no positive history or famous designer to market it with.

So, given these realities, it was always going to be a slow burn, with sales gradually increasing as more people play it and Heighway develops a positive reputation. If Alien is as successful as it seems poised to be I would expect a fair mumber of new Alien owners to pickup FT (probably even in kit form ) over time, so in that sense it still has sales "legs" going forward, IMHO.

I never debated that. I said collectors don't like the theme and/or art enough to buy it. Route is another story. I'd happily put a few bucks in one on route. To me it's the same as GOT...too ugly to be in my home but happy to play it on liactstion. Still - there aren't many on route, this supporting my point that it hasn't sold well.

I really wanted to enjoy FT. I've played it at someone's house (where it had issues) and I played it a lot at York (when it was up and running) because my booth was right next to Cointaker's FT. I think the ramps are very cool and some shots feel nice, but something about the entire game itself just doesn't grab me and many times I'd walk away after the 2nd ball or get annoyed I got an extra ball, because it just didn't have the total fun factor for me.

I can see it doing well on route because of its uniqueness, but I don't see the staying power when in a home setting.

I'd agree with that.. if the game hasn't been at the shows plenty already and already had the opportunity for word of mouth. Here on the East Coast it's been at Replay, Allentown, and more.. people have had plenty of time on it and it still is flat to most... or at least not interesting enough to consider buying.

Your argument is 'give it a chance'... I'm saying that it has had that chance.

Meh, remember when you said this exact same thing 5 months ago? And I brought up the Pinside filtering tool?

The filtering tool...

Lock it? Nah, new customers with this kind of $$ for a toy should be intellectually capable of filtering out all the BS one way or another. All the troll posts can be easily recognized for what they are. In the end, the responses to them set things straight pretty much anyway.

This thread is still the best conduit of information on the Alien pin directly from the manufacturer.

Just curious, what LE number did you get when you paid your deposit? You got in pretty early didn't you?

Mining my posts to cherry pick these quotes and alter the context of my post.

What's that? I'm using that filtering tool I told you about, pretty convenient. Altering what context? All quotes from you are intact and live linked. Click your name in the quote and you go straight to your original post. It's all there for you to review. My apologies if your offended, that wasn't my intention. I'm just as excited as you are about the Alien pin. As someone that has money down from day one you should know we are of kindrid spirit. And again my apologies if I came off as being harsh with you, that wasn't my intention. Didn't you see the cute neener emoticon I left at the end when I inquired about your LE number?

What did you say? "probably one of the first 10..."? That's awesome.

No, all I'm saying is the more popular Alien ultimately becomes the more Full Throttles Heighway will sell as well.

Not everyone goes to shows, they wait until someone they know or a nearby location has a game to really try it out. Plus, if they have a positive experience with Alien picking up another game as a kit for a lot less than NIB Stern, etc. would make sense, vs. buying it as a complete game.