Tell you what, write up your proposal for trophies or score tracking or whatever into something self contained and I'm happy to pass it along to the programmer. Just easier if there's a block of text with the idea instead of trying to link him to a conversation.

Yeah, you're missing something. What you've listed are basically goal-specific leaderboard lists. And having global leaderboards, while cool, has it's problems — specifically the fact that every game can operate differently and the glass can readily be removed.

What I'm talking about are achievements. Which are just as the word implies: a list of goals that exist and are collected independently of any one game you're playing on that machine.

The Pinball Arcade even has them, so that might be the best example for me to use. They call them 'Goals' and they have a list of 'Standard Goals' that, once you've achieved them all, opens up a list of 'Wizard Goals' that, as the name implies, are much harder to complete.

E.g. TZ goals:

Standard Goals:
Score a Yellow Award Skill Shot
Earn an Extra Ball
Score a Gumball Combo
Score a Dead End
Activate Multi-Ball

Wizard Goals:
Earn a Special
Score a Powerball Double Jackpot
Score a 4-Way Combo
Score a Mania Jackpot
Activate Lost in the Zone

As far as video games go, this is an extremely slim list of achievements/goals/challenges. I don't know the gameplay of Alien so I can't suggest achievements for it, but if I were setting achievements for TAF for example I'd include things like:

Complete (x) mode or earn at least (x) points in a particular mode
Score points in every mansion mode in one game
Start Tour The Mansion
Complete Tour The Mansion
Complete 100/200/500/1000 bear kicks ramps (across all games)
Max playfield multiplier
Complete the four-way combo
Score regular jackpot, double jackpot and triple jackpot in one game
Score a graveyard bonus of at least X million
Score THING bonus with both stars
Score 3/5/7/10 jackpots in one game

That kind of thing. The idea is that instead of encouraging the two typical kinds of gameplay in pinball (high score or mode/story completion) it encourages players to start a game with a particular achievement in mind and try to earn it. This adds considerable longevity to a game. And as a bonus it generates buzz around completing the tougher achievements. You know the 'I Finally Reached Valinor!' threads? You'll get those for Alien with regard to some of the tough achievements.

I hope that explains it to those who are unfamiliar with this kind of thing

The above is what I'm thinking. If you had a way to pick a profile or input your initials before you start playing, that would make it possible for the achievements/goals/challenges to be tracked per-user.

Taking the idea further these challenges would be synced to a website, but really I don't think it matters that much. Just including and tracking a big list of achievements like this would go a long way to adding significant replay value to the game and adding continual community discussion around it. That alone would be worth the implementation effort IMO.

I'll take care of this. I'll put something together and share via PM

I agree that an achievements system could add fun to a game. You might not even need to track per-user.

Just list all the achievements gained at the end of the game. I see people taking cell phone pictures all the time of their final score. They could likewise keep track of their achievements.

Or, similar to JJP, a QR code could also be provided to track your results.

I got yer Topper right here!

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=CLP10002&mode=retail

I think most of us are familiar with the concept of achievements you've described. It still doesn't sound appealing or necessary at all for physical pinball machines, and I doubt a large enough segment of the pinball community would even take advantage of such a feature if it was implemented.

I think most people would rather see the programmers spend their valuable time further developing & refining the actual game code, making the game features as deep & enjoyable as possible for everyone, instead of creating an achievement system that may not be embraced by a majority of their customers, and can also be easily exploited by dishonest players.

My two cents.

Achievements could be good to excite these younger generations...I think they're totally stupid and worthless.

And I don't care for Achievements much either

I would welcome a bunch of achievments with some of them extra hard and a little ingame screen animation if you get all (in one game). If the achievement system stands completely seperated from ingame it would pest the dignity of the machine and is nothing for a connoisseur.

Achievements could be good if you had a game specifically dedicated to a list of goals rather than modes; the rules will include a large list of potential achievements for every section of the game, and every time you play it brings up a randomized selection from that list. Completing these in one go would qualify your wizard mode, and the random factor would help to keep the game fresh for longer.

That sounds awesome! You're right — no need for an achievement system when that style of goal completion is built into the game anyway.

It sounds a little bit like I500 which has four goals that result in a victory lap when completed. They are independent of the main game modes: Reach Wave 6 on the Light-Up Targets; Getting the Checkered Flag (completing all modes); Earn 200 laps; Reach position 1 in the race.

That's cheap!

My personal take on "achievements" is that tying them to some kind of user account or the like just feels like a lot of work for little gain.

Pinballs aren't apps, they're not tied to one user. Making people log in, or enter their initials or whatever before the game even starts is unappealing as a pinball concept to me.

I'd much rather see say Life Cycle Combo Champ, and you gotta beat the current champ's number of combos to get your name up, than getting an award for just making the Life Cycle Combo.

Which isn't a new idea, games exist with that kind of micro leaderboard stuff already. But it doesn't feel like a wheel that needs to be reinvented.

The difference between a leaderboard and an achievement list is that you don't have to be one of the "best" to get an achievement.

One problem I see with newer players is they have no idea what to do and often get disheartened when they see their score compared to the scores on the leaderboard.

Maybe achievement awards would help them feel more successful and alert them that there are things to try for in a game. They might not know how they got the achievement the first time but knowing it exists may make them actually try for it the next time. I think having specific goals are essential to long term pinball fun.

Agreed. Would it be very difficult from a programming standpoint to keep track of specific goals achieved then perhaps display a cool icon and description of each achievement at the end of the game? More complicated would be to display the awards as they were gained with maybe a voice telling the player what they got.

How about everybody that puts in 3 quarters wins a trophy

Good points Aurich. I think you're right.

One way that it could still feel like pinball while still retaining the added incentives of achievements and bragging rights/community buzz would be to have a breakdown at the end of your game that shows medals (for example) for each of the achievements you completed during that game.

No requirement to code user accounts or even any kind of HUD overlay, callout or sound effect for having earned it in-game.

Just show a summary screen of how much ass you kicked in that game, showing the achievements that were earned. The results screen could be like the COD After Action Report:

maxresdefault_(resized).jpg

And in the operator menu somewhere, or even via a double flipper press on that results screen, access a list of all the possible medals that can be earned and check them off as they are earned, possibly with the initials of the player to most recently earn them.

You don't have to go to that kind of effort to design medals (although I somehow think you'd have plenty to draw from and may enjoy the work, if you're not already burned out on it).

Still feels like pinball to me and makes great use of the LCD display! If anything it is an opportunity to reflect the truly modern approach this game is taking with game results that go beyond merely getting a high score. I think you've communicated that Alien is a game about atmosphere and progression through the story of the game where every mode is meaningful and a real tied-in experience to the movie. Isn't showing just a score at the end selling this goal a bit short?

HERE THE CHEAT HAVE A TROPHY

trophy_(resized).PNG

Exactly, for this to be practical but serve a rewarding purpose. the following should apply:

1. No log-ins, wi-fi connections, online that track or aggregate performance over time against a user.
2. I'm recommending specifically achievements (logged on a game by game basis) vs leaderboards or microleaderboards (that are retained over time). An achievement is something that you can do or cannot do, but doesn't need to be rankable.... Think scoring a jackpot with 3 balls in play (achievement) VS most Shadow loops (micro-leaderboard).

With the above parameters, its then just a case of tracking what achievements happen in the game. It's purely for fun... or potential reward, such as:
-Get 10 achievements in a game for a free game.
-Get the jackpot value for each achievement acquired.
-List 3 achievements on the plunge (randomized) to aim for during a ball, if successful get an extra 5X bonus.
-The most achievements in a game could even be a microleader that is retained actually.

The great thing about this, is that it adds to some of the randomness and replayability of a given game. They could be updated in code. The key thing here is to keep things simple, no need to have online leaderboards or anything.

The great thing about games like the Shadow is that there are other things to do besides go after the Wizard mode (Orbits, Vengeance, triple jackpot Khan multiball). Any of these could be achievements. I have to say, it looks like Alien is shaping to be an excellent pin, so none of this is necessary... Just a cherry on top, and something that would add to the pin lastability.

Andrew Heighway, CEO of Heighway Pinball, will be speaking at the 2016 Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown, June 10-12. Heighway Pinball is the UK's first major pinball manufacturer. Come meet Andrew and learn about Full Throttle pinball and Alien pinball. Buy your tickets at http://www.pinballshowdown.com

Agreed. That's the bottom line for me. I don't want to give the impression that the team has to do something like this or that there would be any disappointment if they didn't.

Link is either bad or down

Looks like the whole site is down but they announced it on their FB page.

Nice!

Our game is going to be fun to play even if you aren't scoring big, because working through the different stories is going to be cool.

Seriously, our job is to make the game compelling to those players already. We want this on location, attracting people's money. The rules are designed to reward good players who understand them, but still be fun if you're just seeing how many modes you can do, or how many mini wizard modes you can do, etc.

I think more places to get to enter your initials can be fun, why not? Rewards different ways of mastering the playfield.

LIFECYCLE COMBO CHAMP AURICH

But just generic trophies? How would that even work? They can't carry over from game to game, you don't know who's playing. So what? You can earn them every time you play? That doesn't sound right. We already have things you collect every game, like the weapons.

Edit: See post below, where I understand a little better.

Ah, okay, I'm following you now. They have some purpose in aggregate.

We're actually doing things like that already after a fashion. Such as the way you collect weapons, and the benefits they provide you. That's going to be part of the gameplay strategy that's really optional, but that people will want to explore I think.

The way Lifecycle is coming together could be something similar, a series of achievements and getting them all might reward you. And the Lifecycle Combo is a real shot sequence in the rules.

So there are already going to be things like that, where you're doing little mini things out of modes, that will reward you chasing them.

That's awesome material! although i have the blue-ray version..there's some material i never seen

Excellent, sounds like you already have it covered!

Sounds good.

Something like the "After Action Report" above could also be tied into giving the player a rank at the end of the game. For example, you could work your way up the ladder of characters in the order in which they were killed base on the number of achievements you got.

It looks like there is going to be a lot in the game so I'm sure it's not needed but since we're just throwing around ideas, I think it could be fun to have another way to approach the game other than score and story based game progression.

I used to play "fruit ninja" and there were all kinds of fun side objectives (like hit only apples, or avoid all pears etc...) that were fun to attempt when you felt like a break from going for the high score.

Just watched David Thiel's talk at the Northwest show and I must say the stuff he could let us listen to is sounding really awesome!

See here:

https://www.twitch.tv/nwpinballarcadeshow/v/70537626

Discussion of Alien sound starts at 36:45.

So far they only have permission to use voices from the American actors? At least the majority might be included, and from what he was able to play it sounds amazing! Well done.

Yup, American actors only. he also said that fox is only approving asset piecemeal, but that means they may still get access to more as the game develops.

Who are the non-American actors? Aren't most American

John Hurt and Ian Holm leap to mind from Alien.

The guy that was in the alien suit was Nigerian.

He is also no longer alive unfortunately.

Was the actor legitimately in country? I'd hate to think our Alien was a .... you know ...illegal alien.

Even from that small tidbit of sound I became a little aroused, going to be greatness.

Veronica Cartwright is English born but listed as being an American actress, so hopefully she's included.

Highly recommended viewing if you're interested in this game.

Very curious what will be reported here by people who have also seen the video. Enjoy

I'll take a look

Well, maybe you're disappointed in its lack of progress? Maybe you're hiding it for a later time to bolster FTH sales? Maybe neither and everything is going behind schedule for a yet to be determined build date.

I don't know. Really, I don't. But I do continue to support your company and I only bring up these examples to show what some may consider based on previous pinball missed time lines from other folks who had good intentions with bad results.

Saving graces here: you took small deposits but had built a moderate sized pinball manufacturing plant, and built the FTH pins. That's a strong reason for me staying in.

Since I have no real idea how the license process works, I'll take your word for it.

Mr Thiel's comments on the licensing issues on Alien are very telling during his commentary on the work he is doing for Alien.

I don't think we have anything to worry about. What he has shared is very telling and so far it sounds amazing. From the tidbits gleened from the Alien portion of the shared twitch feed it has exceeded my expectations already and can only get even better as the work continues and more assets are nailed down.

The music fits with the tension the 2 movies evoke and is making for great immersion in that universe. Thanks for sharing this video feed.

If you listen from where the Alien portion begins all the way to the end, much can be learned about the state of this pin. It's in good hands and should reflect as an awesome compliment to the genre it's designed within.

Sound/music will be spectacular with Thiel at the helm.

I played Full Throttle a few times at the PNW show over the weekend. Hate the theme, but the game played very smooth and flowed well. My problem with it was: the game played great early in the day, but by ~2/3 of the way through the day the flippers couldn't make the ramps anymore. I suppose from flippers getting hot? Playing it at that point really sucked and left a terrible impression.

I know David Thiel showed the video to people privately after he announced he had it at his talk. Honestly it's getting a bit of a stupid mythical status now, it's not that big a deal, except for the fact that we just haven't been able to show anything. But there are more witnesses that it's real now, and there will be more by next week it sounds like.

Can we all just accept that either we're mass dosing people with copious amounts of LSD before showing them clips from the Alien films while making pinball sound effects with our mouths, or the video is indeed real? And by proxy, if there's a video there's a flipping game that was filmed.

It's not a finished game, it's just a nice little look at a flipping prototype, but it's not vaporware. It's not foamcore, it has working LCD screens, there are callouts from the film, it's not a TWD situation where we can't actually use the source material, you can see the style of animations, it just shows you that it's real. It's a teaser trailer.

So yes, it's slower than anyone would like to finish the game, we all realize that, but no one should feel like it's not really happening. A ton of work has gone into this thing, and the time has had its uses, like the rules aren't going to be broken or missing features at launch, there's been time to program and think. They'll get updates post launch I'm sure, but there's going to be a lot to explore.

Looking forward though:

I'm trying to wrap up a big site relaunch for Ars, and then I'm diving back into working on the art, revising the playfield for the new CAD, and working more on the interface for the LCD screen. Now that the rules are pretty fleshed out there's a lot to do to tie in icons and text and information on the screen to explain your progress, what you've collected, what you're trying to do.

I've argued recently that LCD screens are more interesting for pinball now than red DMDs, and one of the reasons is because you can provide the player with better info. The space and resolution provide a lot more options for displaying things. For example, maybe there are status icons for the stages of Lifecycle, and you can see at a glance which one you need to do next, and how close to completing it you are. That's useful, it helps you decide what you're shooting at quickly, but it also teaches new players what to do, as the UI responds to their gameplay.

This is the next real step to marry the screen and rules. I'll work with Joe and Kelly (and anyone else who had thoughts) to understand and agree on how that will all work, animate, etc. The US team has a great rapport and work flow, lots of ideas, and the respective team leads are good at filtering out what's good; it's balanced well for thinking through problems as a group as needed, and resolving them quickly and easily. Code, sound, animations, art, UX, it's all worked on openly.

A mate of mine has seen it and said it is awesome, I am quite happy to leave my order in and wait as long as it takes. I have known Andrew for years and have complete faith in him, he is a massive Aliens fan after all!

What are the dimensions of the LCD screen on the backbox? Is it classic pinball shape (like with the Big Lebowski) or a larger rectangle as in Wizard of Oz?

27" LCD (or 10,1" LCD)