(Topic ID: 228560)

Alien flippers die mid-game - freeze up/down

By Flippers_com

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by russdx
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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IMG_9333 (resized).JPG (© John's Jukes Ltd.)
IMG_9333 (resized).JPG (© John's Jukes Ltd.)
IMG_9332 (resized).JPG (© John's Jukes Ltd.)
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#1 5 years ago

Currently we are trying to resolve a problem with a game, we brought in for a client, locking the flippers in either activated or inactivated position where they stick for a short time and then recover or stay frozen right up to until the game is powered off. This happens at random during game play and often enough to be really annoying - ever other game.

One time all the flippers died, then the ball rolled over the left drain lane and was returned (ball save) back to the shooter trough however the shooter trough solenoid would not activate either - flippers stayed dead.

Makes for difficult game play. Have swapped the IO board with a different one and the heavier ground wiring mod was done to that swapped in IO board. No difference. One time when the right flipper locked in the active position I tried unplugging the USB cable and the activated right flipper dropped immediately. Plugging the cable back in brought the flippers back to life after the card sorted out the handshaking.

Game is running Rev 1.2
Game has the 70V switching supply
Exchanged flipper IO board with another: both IO have the hefty ground wire add-on - same symptoms
Tried a new USB cable to the IO - same symptoms.
IO green LEDs stay lit/flickering during flipper lockup.
Kickers and pops still work when any or all flippers lock up.

No schematics or manual makes troubleshooting far more time consuming. Does anyone have a copy of the Heighway Alien bulletins seeing as the web site is now down? Anyone have wiring diagrams of the game?

I have some more thoughts to try - such as the next time it locks up try the button on the IO board, and monitor the 70V to make sure it is stable. Also do a switch test to see if the game is recognizing the switches correctly or not. Try another USB expander, try USB direct to CPU, and so on...

Suggestions appreciated.

Thanks!

John :-#)#
flippers.com

#2 5 years ago

Running a direct USB cable to the computer, bypassing the USB hub has reduced the incidence of flipper lockup, but has not eliminated it. Still exploring...

#3 5 years ago

I think this was a problem with FTh too.

You're best off asking in the main Alien and keeping-Alien-running threads though. More people will see your post and may be able to help.

#4 5 years ago

Found the right side flipper cabinet button was binding rarely and this would lead to one of the symptoms of flipper stuck in the activated position. New button resolved that.

Now with that fix and the USB to the MPU flipper lockups are way, way down.

Hard to find messages on those threads - I haven't the time to be reading 400 posts where the topic(s) wander(s) all over the place - I have pinballs to fix!

John :-#)#

#5 5 years ago

Does "binding raley" mean the contact did not close properly when pressed - leading to a series of fast on/off changes?
That might confuse the game software...

#6 5 years ago

No, what I meant was the flipper cabinet button jammed (weird!) and kept the switch closed. Pressing it again would sometimes release it. Looks like a button design flaw, had to try a couple of that style to get one that didn't grab when pressed off-center.

Alien_Stuck_Sw (resized).JPGAlien_Stuck_Sw (resized).JPGAlien_Stuck_Sw_1 (resized).JPGAlien_Stuck_Sw_1 (resized).JPG
#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Flippers_com:

Running a direct USB cable to the computer, bypassing the USB hub has reduced the incidence of flipper lockup, but has not eliminated it. Still exploring...

Hmmm... does this machine have a Zotac CPU, or the HPraise CPU? I thought newer machines all had the HPraise CPU, and I thought on those builds, there was no USB hub at all; all USB cables went directly to the CPU.

#8 5 years ago

The game has the MPU that has 6 USB ports, looks similar to the photo.
I did some exploring of the IO boards with my microscope and found (so far) three solder whiskers one of which looks like it is shorting two pins or is so close that vibration can short. I will have to go over all the IO boards with my stereo microscope looking for more of these 1@#$!$#@ whiskers! These do not appear to be the tin whiskers that are plaguing lead-free technology, they look just like hairline solder bridges.

IMG_9269 (resized).JPGIMG_9269 (resized).JPG
#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Flippers_com:

The game has the MPU that has 6 USB ports, looks similar to the photo.
I did some exploring of the IO boards with my microscope and found (so far) three solder whiskers one of which looks like it is shorting two pins or is so close that vibration can short. I will have to go over all the IO boards with my stereo microscope looking for more of these 1@#$!$#@ whiskers! These do not appear to be the tin whiskers that are plaguing lead-free technology, they look just like hairline solder bridges.
[quoted image]

Alien pinball puts you IN the movie. You WILL learn to use a microscope and obliterate liquid metal demons!

#10 5 years ago

THEY CUT THE POWER! HOW DID THEY CUT THE F'ING POWER!?

1 week later
#11 5 years ago

FLIPPER FREEZE RESOLVED!

It appears that the solution, at least for this particular game, was to track down proper SHIELDED USB cables. Once those were installed all the flipper issues went away. It would appear that USB cables are not all the same, I had to go through four different suppliers to find the right quality of cable. In the end I went to Digi-key, but I am sure the shielded cables on Mouser or other high end electronics supplier would have worked - just be sure to specify SHIELDED and it won't hurt to have an RFI ferrite built in to the cable as well. You will need one cable that is 1.8M, 1 cable that is 1.5M and two cables that are 0.8M long. Secure the cables at several points with zip ties.

Needless to say this is silly to have as a problem.

The game would have been much better off to use twisted pair (ethernet) for data transmission like JJ games - it has a much higher noise rejection, and the connectors have a positive lock to them.

In the meantime secure your USB cables at the IO board end, do not leave them hanging as this will gradually cause issues to develop in the connection at the IO board and as the idea is to keep the game playing then a bit of preventative maintenance can go a long way!

#12 5 years ago

Glad you were able to resolve the problem. It seems 90% of the time when customers report flippers (or other coils), lights, or switches going flaky or totally dead during a game, the problem can be resolved simply by installing high-quality USB cables.

Hope the game continues to work well for you!

#13 5 years ago

Original Cables are crap
can pick up radio interference, try talking on a phone near one and having heaps of wifi cameras etc near one
poor cables act like antenna

#14 5 years ago

I forgot to list the cables:

What I used (from Digi-Key - Canada) were:

WM5160-ND - Molex - USB A to Mini B 1.8M Black
WM14083-ND - Molex - USB A to Mini B 0.8M Black
WM14084-ND - Molex - USB A to Mini B 1.5M Black

I see no reason not to purchase similar cables from other suppliers such as Mouser or Element - just make SURE the cables are shielded and if they also have an RFI filter so much the better - the above did not.

John :-#)#

#15 5 years ago

John:

You're lucky in that you actually got to see and touch a Heighway machine. Nobody I know has one. What flipper assemblies does that machine use? What flipper coils are installed?

#16 5 years ago

Hi Ken,

They use their own assemblies and coils. Although the linkage appears to be a clone of the DE/Stern plunger and link. for some reason I forgot to get a photo! Will get Alex to grab a bunch of under the playfield photos when he sets the game up today in our customers home.

I did do some tests on the whining noise from the left flippers - it is coming from the coils themselves! Simple to show, turn off the sound amp. It is a manifestation of the PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) used to drive all the coils in the game, but for some reason the left and right hand flippers use quite different frequencies - which leads to the noise. The game is off to our customer now so I can't do any more digging into this, but I did hook up my tiny 'scope to both flippers and got the following images - the first is the right side (no audible whine) and the second is the whiny left flipper. The third image (a repeat of the second) is an artifact of pinside image process, I can't delete it as the small toolbar does not show up in the post image building area. See screen shots at the end...

IMG_9332 (resized).JPGIMG_9332 (resized).JPGIMG_9333 (resized).JPGIMG_9333 (resized).JPGIMG_9333 (resized).JPGIMG_9333 (resized).JPGScreen Shot 2018-11-17 at 10.29.45 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2018-11-17 at 10.29.45 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2018-11-17 at 10.29.57 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2018-11-17 at 10.29.57 AM (resized).png
#17 5 years ago

even if you change the coil it still makes the pvm sound, its how they are controlling the coils

#18 5 years ago

It would be nice to get some internal machine pictures (especially of assemblies like flippers and pop bumpers) posted at the Heighway Pinball repair guide at pinwiki. Not much there currently. I got the Spooky Pinball heading started there.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from Flippers_com:

I did do some tests on the whining noise from the left flippers - it is coming from the coils themselves! Simple to show, turn off the sound amp. It is a manifestation of the PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) used to drive all the coils in the game, but for some reason the left and right hand flippers use quite different frequencies - which leads to the noise.

Hi Brian here, I did most of the programming on the flippers, so I can explain a little bit more what happened here. Each IO board supports 8 coil/motor outputs, but these are not all identical. 4 of them support PWM in hardware, and 4 do not. By mistake, when the various outputs were mapped into their slots on the board, the left flipper was put onto a non-PWM slot. This requires the firmware running on the IOB to do the PWM in code, but the frequency is much lower. No one caught this during review, and no one told me about the sound problem (I still did not have a game to test on).

In addition, with the 14.09 version of the firmware, some changes were made to the software PWM to reduce flicker of the LEDs. This exacerbated the sound problem, but we felt that was a better result than the LEDs flickering wildly while the flipper was held up. Even before this change though, there was still some noise. (During testing of these changes, some of the revisions were MUCH worse! The final 14.09 was a compromise between those two competing goals: reducing noise AND flicker.) The flicker is ultimately caused by a hardware defect on the board, some interference between the 70v and LED data stream.

Note that Full Throttle put both of its flippers on hardware-PWM circuits, so that is why it does not suffer this problem. As an aside, I haven't seen this posted anywhere else, but Full Throttle owners can also use the 14.09 firmware that shipped with ALIEN. Nearly all the FTs I've played have that annoying LED glitching. I put 14.09 in my FT and it's all gone.

The only way to eliminate the left flipper noise would be to rewire the coil to a different coil number (e.g. swapping it with the left slingshot, which does not use PWM), AND make a new version of the game code to support that.

1 week later
#20 5 years ago

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense!

John :-#)#

2 months later
#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Flippers_com:

I forgot to list the cables:
What I used (from Digi-Key - Canada) were:
WM5160-ND - Molex - USB A to Mini B 1.8M Black
WM14083-ND - Molex - USB A to Mini B 0.8M Black
WM14084-ND - Molex - USB A to Mini B 1.5M Black
I see no reason not to purchase similar cables from other suppliers such as Mouser or Element - just make SURE the cables are shielded and if they also have an RFI filter so much the better - the above did not.
John :-#)#

Just bought these cables and had no problems since. (about 20 games in a row now)

#22 5 years ago

flippers being controlled via usb stack makes me shudder every time i hear it!!!

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