(Topic ID: 193887)

AFM Reset Mystery - ColorDMD compatibility?

By EarlGrey

6 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by NPO
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 6 years ago

Situation:
- Fully working and stable, prior to ColorDMD install, AFM w/1.13B ROMs.
- ColorDMD v1.3 purchased in 2012 and just installed. Board came with v1.3 firmware and was upgraded to 32-bit key and 3.1 firmware after installation.
- No mods in AFM other than Bill Ung v1.0 saucer kit.

Prior to the ColorDMD install, the game was stable. After install of the ColorDMD v1.3 w/v1.3 fw, the game randomly reset and there was image corruptiton on the ColorDMD. After then upgrading the ColorDMD key to 32-bit and installing v3.1 fw, all image corruption is gone but the game still randomly resets - sometimes multiple times in a row, during a game, or after hours of stability.

On startup and reset the display shows:
50041 1.13B (while running the startup tests and showing progress bar)
then
541 100308 02049 appears below the above information once the test progress bar is complete. Is this a checksum error?

As part of simple troubleshooting, I've removed power to the Bill Ung board, but the reset problem continues, so the Bill Ung board does not appear to be a factor.

The v1.13B ROMs were installed several months ago in preparation for the ColorDMD install and support. As an aside, the machine had v1.0 or 1.1 ROMs prior and the SOL hole would eject STDM about 75% of the time. Since the 1.13B ROMs were installed, it only ejects STDM about 10% of the time. Strange, but welcome.

Any ideas why the machine is resetting post ColorDMD install?

Thanks.

#2 6 years ago

check your 12 volt unregulated and the 5 volts.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

check your 12 volt unregulated and the 5 volts.

Agreed. Had similar problems with ST:TNG.

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from EarlGrey:

Situation:
- Fully working and stable, prior to ColorDMD install, AFM w/1.13B ROMs.
- ColorDMD v1.3 purchased in 2012 and just installed. Board came with v1.3 firmware and was upgraded to 32-bit key and 3.1 firmware after installation.
- No mods in AFM other than Bill Ung v1.0 saucer kit.
Prior to the ColorDMD install, the game was stable. After install of the ColorDMD v1.3 w/v1.3 fw, the game randomly reset and there was image corruptiton on the ColorDMD. After then upgrading the ColorDMD key to 32-bit and installing v3.1 fw, all image corruption is gone but the game still randomly resets - sometimes multiple times in a row, during a game, or after hours of stability.
On startup and reset the display shows:
50041 1.13B (while running the startup tests and showing progress bar)
then
541 100308 02049 appears below the above information once the test progress bar is complete. Is this a checksum error?
As part of simple troubleshooting, I've removed power to the Bill Ung board, but the reset problem continues, so the Bill Ung board does not appear to be a factor.
The v1.13B ROMs were installed several months ago in preparation for the ColorDMD install and support. As an aside, the machine had v1.0 or 1.1 ROMs prior and the SOL hole would eject STDM about 75% of the time. Since the 1.13B ROMs were installed, it only ejects STDM about 10% of the time. Strange, but welcome.
Any ideas why the machine is resetting post ColorDMD install?
Thanks.

The ROM corruption you had was a known software issue that was fixed in later ROMs. It was possible for the ROM to become corrupted during a power cycle.

The reset problem is an issue with the 5V power supply and is unrelated to the ColorDMD. The ColorDMD draws almost all of it's power off 12V. 5V is used only for USB and as an enable signal to turn on the board's 1.2V regulator.

To confirm, you can unplug the ColorDMD, hit both flippers at the same time and still see resets. This is a common issue that is usually related to a failing bridge rectifier or capacitor on the 5V supply. The 5V signal fluctuates and falls below a watchdog, triggering the reset.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from Jodester:

Agreed. Had similar problems with ST:TNG.

A problem on the unregulated 12V supply can produce weak flippers but not game resets. Usually due to the same cause, though, a failing bridge or cap.

#6 6 years ago

Thanks for the responses and suggestions. I'll start with some tests tonite.

#8 6 years ago

This is more than likely completely coincidental. The random reset (NOT the dual flipper reset) problem is by far one of the absolutely most annoying ones I have ever encountered. You'll get REALLY good at replacing the IDC connectors with molex connectors in the backbox...

#9 6 years ago

What are people's opinions on the Kahr 5 volt boards for resets? Would that help in this situation?

http://www.kahr.us/daughterboard.html

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

What are people's opinions on the Kahr 5 volt boards for resets? Would that help in this situation?
http://www.kahr.us/daughterboard.html

It's a bandaid until the situation gets so bad you have no choice but to fix the original design.

I had a Kahr board in my TAF, and ithe game had a brand new Rottendog board, and it STILL did not fix the issue(s). My issues ended up being changing out all 5v IDC connectors with molex connectors and installing a new thermistor in the power box.

While I greatly respect the Kahr board, it is retarding what people in this community need to be doing: learning how to diagnose the real problem and fixing it properly.

#11 6 years ago

After following the suggestions, the problem is related to under voltage on the 12V - which, as noted, is where the ColorDMD gets its power. I'll be tracing this down further for proper repair.

Thanks again for all the pointers.

#12 6 years ago

Resets are caused by a drop in 5V.

If your 12V supply is low you may have another problem but it is extremely unlikely that activity on the 12V supply is causing the reset. 12V and 5V come from different transformer windings and do not normally affect one another. (The exception would be if you have an aftermarket Kahr board installed which generates a dedicated 5V for the CPU from the 12V supply. In this case a sudden drop in 12V could affect the CPU.)

Resets are often related to voltage fluctuations on the 5V supply that are caused by coupling of high-speed switching/firing of the high voltage solenoids, and a failing bridge/cap or resistive connection in the 5V supply.

If your 5V output is already low, resets are more likely to occur because it takes a smaller dip to trigger the watchdog reset logic.

Voltage fluctuations can often be detected using a DMM to monitor the 5V test point, and flipping both flippers at the same time.

#13 6 years ago

My post here in from when I swapped out my power driver board with a brand new one from Rottendog may help:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/taf-new-power-driver-board#post-3444956

In short:

"I talked with Kahr about this, and we discussed the possibilities. In short, he informed me my 12v supply was starting to falter if the game was resetting with his board present. We discussed the idea of just getting a brand new Rottendog board, and he informed me that it was a solid route to go. So I ordered a new board (known as PDB from here on), and I got it in earlier this week..."

OP, I am not saying this is your issue with your AFM, but it will give you a lot of peace of mind. When I ordered the new board ($300), I was able to sell my old board for about $150, so the $$$ hit isn't as bad as it first appears. There are a good number of pinball repairmen here that try to keep the original hardware in the community.

Wanted to give you my story/experience to help you in your path forward.

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