Attack from Mars
Bally, 1995Am I nuts to think it would be an easier machine to swap the PF since there doesn't seem to be as much crap on it as many other pins?
I saw the restored AFM that sold for 9k yesterday. Does anyone know how much I might get a routed machine, and/or pay for new PF, and all the extra bits? Later tonight I may check some sites to see how much all the parts add up to on their own, then do the math -but if anyone's already done the numbers, please share!
Thanks!
I would think that it would be better to get one previously restored - provided it was done RIGHT - by someone already. I've seen routed, unshopped AFM's selling for 7K recently.
I myself am up to my ears in one that I'm redoing. Not only is it a money pit, but the time involved, has and will, be lots.
This is all written assuming you really mean you want a 'restored' pin - one where everything plays like new, looks like new, and is cleaned/reconditioned/rebuilt properly. Not just a playfield swap where you don't restore the cabinet, don't rebuild everything, don't polish everything, don't clean every single square inch of the machine, etc
Restoring a single pin yourself is never the cheapest route.
To restore a single pin, you're going to spend more in tools than you'll pay a competent restorer. Then, there's the learning curve involved with learning to use them. The average guy just doesn't have the correct specialized tools to do it the right way in their toolbox.
If you like this sort of thing, are meticulous, and think you'll want to do a few more, buy the tools and have fun.
If you just really want a nice AFM, have other things you want to do with your time, etc, write a check.
If you can find a core game for a good price, you can always buy it and send it to a restorer.
Let me troll for a second here; I would buy a number of other games instead of this one and come out a few grand ahead.
If you like fixing up games i'd go for that, I've paid too much for a pin because I value the project factor. I think more often than not it's harder to find the perfect project game than the perfect condition game.
Depends. Most of the people restoring this game mod it to all high hell. If you like type pimp pinball attitude then get an already restored one. If you just want a 'close to original' you'll need to find one unrestored, which is getting harder to do.
Can anyone tell me what's involved -or a site that might list some of the details?
I was expecting to use a ratchet and screwdriver to remove each piece, one by one, document what it looked like before being removed, then swap it over onto the new playfield. If some parts look like crap, ordering replacement pieces, and trying to get them on.
I've owned a pin for 3 weeks now so am really that green that I can't understand what could go wrong. I'd love to hear from anyone who has bought a machine to fix up, and ended up wrecking it, or selling it in parts to someone else who put it back together.
I suppose an obvious problem might be if the machine doesn't work 100% once you're done, then you're stuck not knowing what exactly you screwed up. Having said that, from what I've seen so far, pins appear to be just simple enough that each piece works somewhat independently from the rest, making it a little easier to locate and correct any issue.
Simple question I guess: what's the best way to learn more about how brutal a project like this might become, before getting in over my head?
Quoted from Chambahz:Can anyone tell me what's involved -or a site that might list some of the details?
I was expecting to use a ratchet and screwdriver to remove each piece, one by one, document what it looked like before being removed, then swap it over onto the new playfield. If some parts look like crap, ordering replacement pieces, and trying to get them on.
I've owned a pin for 3 weeks now so am really that green that I can't understand what could go wrong. I'd love to hear from anyone who has bought a machine to fix up, and ended up wrecking it, or selling it in parts to someone else who put it back together.
I suppose an obvious problem might be if the machine doesn't work 100% once you're done, then you're stuck not knowing what exactly you screwed up. Having said that, from what I've seen so far, pins appear to be just simple enough that each piece works somewhat independently from the rest, making it a little easier to locate and correct any issue.
Simple question I guess: what's the best way to learn more about how brutal a project like this might become, before getting in over my head?
That's not restoring a pinball. That's doing a playfield swap. Sort of like comparing restoring a car to putting in a new engine.
There's no reason you shouldn't just swap a playfield, if that's all you want, but it's not a restoration.
Well what you're describing is a playfield swap. If that's all you want to do then do it yourself. That will not be a restored machine. The cabinet will not be restored nor will all the parts.
At the minimum you'd want to empty your cabinet, remove everything, possibly repaint the whole inside and unless the outside is flawless, sand it all down and redecal it. There shouldn't be a speck of dust. Then you'd tumble all the parts, regrain all the metals, replace or polish all the ramps. Pop bumpers and all coils rebuilt most parts replaced. Its a big job.
A simple playfield swap will still eat up a lot of time. To me, that time should be spent doing things right and not cutting corners. Why skip over some small detail when 90% of the hassle is getting at a certain part or mechanism. When, in truth, will be the next time you have it stripped down that far? I myself will be playing it instead.
First of all, thanks for all the info so far guys. I've found a few sites on line that detail a little here and a little there. Step by step.
So would it be nuts to look at buying a cheap routed machine (fingers being crossed that it works), and then performing a PF swap, maybe some new plastics/mods, and a flipper rebuild? Hoping to get a nice working, fast AFM pin without paying the high prices that they're going for currently?
Guessing at the numbers, it doesn't sound to me like I'd save much money in the long run unless I found a real bargain to begin with.
Seems to me as though either the guys that do full restores aren't charging enough, or more realistically, if a restored pin (say MM) sells for 15k, that every other MM owner looks at this and says: "Great! My MM is also worth 15k. 13-14 at the very least." -and they're way over pricing?
I would have liked to see that if AFM is 9k restored, that you could get a regular machine for 6k and a routed one for less -and that just aint happening.
tons of work involved in actually restoring a pin. unless you have tons of time to do it, and want to spend alot of money to do it, its going to be cheaper to get a nice one at a not too bad price. yes its awesome to look at a totally restored pin, but you can still play a decent one and enjoy it. my eatpm restore cost and time is going to be ridiculous...
I would Suggest that You get a Pinhead friend , and the 2 of you Tag Team the AFM .. Me and Shanetastic did my AFM is a Day ( Full Day ) .. Top-side Full Tear down , then the under-side .. Also added Led's and a B/board City decal .. Great Pin .. I Want it again 1-day .. Good Luck ..
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/attack-from-mars-b_rs
If you can find a afm very cheep then maybe worth doing a full restoration rather than buying one already restored
i have restored many afm to supermint standard then when i come to sell i have spent so much money to bring it up to supermint i make very little or no profit max £300 witch for the amount of time put in is nothing but if you enjoy restoring them and are going to keep it then thats up to you
here is an example of cost of restoring one
afm to buy as is £2500
playfield £750
cab art £250
ramps £250 all 3
plastics £120
bill ung led kit a must £160
new martions
new mother ship plastics
new flipper bulbs rubbers ect ect
all metal parts polished or re plated
cab to sand fill and repair new side rails
new dm
the price is now over what you could buy a very nice restored afm for
Quoted from Chambahz:Am I nuts to think it would be an easier machine to swap the PF since there doesn't seem to be as much crap on it as many other pins?
I saw the restored AFM that sold for 9k yesterday. Does anyone know how much I might get a routed machine, and/or pay for new PF, and all the extra bits? Later tonight I may check some sites to see how much all the parts add up to on their own, then do the math -but if anyone's already done the numbers, please share!
Thanks!
This is a no brainer right now! There have been numerous restored AFM's for sale that sold below their market value. Routed AFM's seem to be on the high side for what your getting. No way you can buy a routed AFM right now (unless you luck out) and restore it for what a few of these already sold for.
Some great info guys -thank you all!
The recently restored AFM that sold on Pinside was about 9k. Would that be about right or low value?
(Seems to me as though you MIGHT pay as much as 11k if it was a pro job done very well)
Wondering if I were to get a router, then do the PF swap with all new topside, if I can get that all done for 8k or less, it's probably worth doing? Otherwise, go fully refurb/restored.
Quoted from Chambahz:Some great info guys -thank you all!
The recently restored AFM that sold on Pinside was about 9k. Would that be about right or low value?
(Seems to me as though you MIGHT pay as much as 11k if it was a pro job done very well)
Wondering if I were to get a router, then do the PF swap with all new topside, if I can get that all done for 8k or less, it's probably worth doing? Otherwise, go fully refurb/restored.
I know of a few nicely restored AFM's that sold recently for well below $9000 that were worth a good bit more than that with all the improvements, mods, etc... then you have to figure in all the hours of labor it takes to get them to that level! If routed AFM's were still at the $4500-$5000 range then maybe going the routed way might be okay but good luck getting a decent one for under $6500.
Quoted from Chambahz:First of all, thanks for all the info so far guys. I've found a few sites on line that detail a little here and a little there. Step by step.
So would it be nuts to look at buying a cheap routed machine (fingers being crossed that it works), and then performing a PF swap, maybe some new plastics/mods, and a flipper rebuild? Hoping to get a nice working, fast AFM pin without paying the high prices that they're going for currently?
Guessing at the numbers, it doesn't sound to me like I'd save much money in the long run unless I found a real bargain to begin with.
Seems to me as though either the guys that do full restores aren't charging enough, or more realistically, if a restored pin (say MM) sells for 15k, that every other MM owner looks at this and says: "Great! My MM is also worth 15k. 13-14 at the very least." -and they're way over pricing?
I would have liked to see that if AFM is 9k restored, that you could get a regular machine for 6k and a routed one for less -and that just aint happening.
You'd be surprised how much rework a repro AFM playfield needs to be swap ready. In case you haven't seen HEP's videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/highendpins
I definitely wouldn't swap one in without getting reworks done.
If you all ready have the tools AND like doing this kind of work AND you can find a bargain priced routed AFM (good luck) then you might save some $$$. Assuming a new/restored PF with CC and doing a "full" restoration on the rest, and some mods, you are looking at spending between $3-4k in parts and services (board work,plating, etc),above the core cost, to get it back to "new" condition.
The pro restorers have an advantage in cost saving techniques/tools and discounts as well as networks to find core pins at prices you and I could never get outside of dumb luck.
Of the 3 restores I have done, one I will get my money back out of, if I ever sell, and the other two I will likely lose on. Bottom line, I wouldn't do a DIY restore looking to save money. I do it because I enjoy restoring things back to new.
If there's anyone out there who has completed an AFM PF swap using the Mirco boards (only one available, I believe?), I'd love to hear if you did all the steps that Hutchins recommended, or took shortcuts.
If I do get a Mirco PF, I will likely have to try fixing the ball trough and some of the cut-outs, but not sure that I would sand it down to remove some of that extra-thick clearcoat.
Comments?
Quoted from metahugh:You'd be surprised how much rework a repro AFM playfield needs to be swap ready. In case you haven't seen HEP's videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/highendpins
I definitely wouldn't swap one in without getting reworks done.
Couldn't. Agree. More.
Quoted from vid1900:If you are already planning on taking shortcuts, save yourself a big headache and don't bother with the restoration.
Curious as to how necessary it is to remove the extra clear coat. Is this really going to affect gameplay noticeably? I expect when Hutchins does this stuff, he's taking it to factory-new condition or better. I just want to have a great-playing, great-looking, machine.
Hutchins said that there's a fine line between sanding down the right amount, and wearing into the playfield paint. Not sure I'm going to risk damaging a new PF just to reduce the clear coat.
(That's really the point of my question) -though I do expect I'll have to adjust those cut-out holes so the protector fits etc. -That's non negotiable. Same with the ball trough deepening/widening.
Quoted from Chambahz:Curious as to how necessary it is to remove the extra clear coat. Is this really going to affect gameplay noticeably?
It might not matter to you at all.
Think of how many people play with the inserts popped up and they still have fun.
Lots of "pro restorers" put way too much clear on and people seem to accept it.
That's what I was hoping to hear.
I may already be biting off more than I can chew so I'm trying to keep this to "wild manageable fantasy" vs "deluded nightmare".
Thanks for the info!
Anyone else have much experience with an AFM restore?
I've been scouring the net for pics and videos or AFM restores but haven't found much that's useful. Mostly it's before and after shots/videos. Inspiring, but not as helpful.
Has anyone seen a shop-job instructional for example?
I found a manual online.
If anyone else knows of restore info online (pics/manuals, etc) that would be much appreciated.
In other news: looks like the colour DMDs are no longer being made for AFM?
Has anyone heard anything about that? New batch being produced?
Got pics of a completed AFM here:
http://www.kickasspinball.com/AFM-OEM.html
Ooh and ahh at how great that machine looks! (It's my machine just after they finished it) 
Quoted from MrDo:Got pics of a completed AFM here:
http://www.kickasspinball.com/AFM-OEM.html
Ooh and ahh at how great that machine looks! (It's my machine just after they finished it)
That's a beauty. Can I ask what that set you back?
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