Aerosmith owner? Then walk this way!

(Topic ID: 184386)

Aerosmith owner? Then walk this way!


By TimeBandit

2 years ago



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#301 1 year ago
Quoted from swampfire:

All of the versions are great, hard to go wrong with any of them.
Has anybody else run into the problem where the song you hear doesn't match the playfield mode? It happened to me a bunch more today, to the point where it was getting annoying. I can always avoid it if I remember not to flip for a few seconds after picking a song, but I don't want to have to explain that to people who come over.

It's been mentioned a few posts ago. This is a bug inherited from KISS because AS uses KISS code. It's in the KISS 1.28 bug log here.

EDIT: Asked and answered a page ago by you already. ???

#302 1 year ago

I'm asking a different question - whether other AS owners have seen the problem. As far as I know I'm the only one, so maybe something is wrong with my specific game.

#303 1 year ago
Quoted from swampfire:

All of the versions are great, hard to go wrong with any of them.
Has anybody else run into the problem where the song you hear doesn't match the playfield mode? It happened to me a bunch more today, to the point where it was getting annoying. I can always avoid it if I remember not to flip for a few seconds after picking a song, but I don't want to have to explain that to people who come over.

Mine has done that a few times but I can't remember the exact scenario. Seems like it was playing sweet emotion but was on another song. For some reason I'm also thinking that when it was happening that I needed to shoot the left scoop and start a new song mode. I honestly just can't remember the situation but it's not something that happens often. When it happens again see if the light it lit for a new song selection on the left scoop. I realize everything I just said makes very little sense but I just wanted you to know that I think it's something going on in the code probably and not your game.

#304 1 year ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I'm asking a different question - whether other AS owners have seen the problem. As far as I know I'm the only one, so maybe something is wrong with my specific game.

If you are unsure, it will not hurt to do a factory reset on your machine. Make sure you are running the latest code (1.03) first. We have not had this problem that I know of. We had other silly things going on like the ball not getting shot in to the toybox and the ball not going up the elevator. We reset the machine and everything has been working fine ever since.

The only other issue we had was that the machine kept spitting 2 balls out in to the shooter lane. The first ball to be shot out was bouncing straight back in to the ball trough. Another ball had already taken its place, so the machine shot 2 balls out. We bent the tab at ball exit so the ball did not bounce back in. Fixed! same as old B/W machines.

#305 1 year ago

i have had the game for 24 hours...never played it or saw it in person before buying. very, very happy with my decision. great art and music package. my only gripe is when i match i don't hear the credit knock...is it me or all you guys?

#306 1 year ago
Quoted from vex:

i have had the game for 24 hours...never played it or saw it in person before buying. very, very happy with my decision. great art and music package. my only gripe is when i match i don't hear the credit knock...is it me or all you guys?

There isn't a knocker in Stern games anymore. It's now an obnoxious screech that comes through your speakers. I have it disabled on all of my Stern games. AS is a great game though and you are going to love it.

#307 1 year ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I'm asking a different question - whether other AS owners have seen the problem. As far as I know I'm the only one, so maybe something is wrong with my specific game.

It's happened to me, too, but having KISS, I recognized it immediately. So, no, it's not your machine.

#308 1 year ago
Quoted from vex:

i have had the game for 24 hours...never played it or saw it in person before buying. very, very happy with my decision. great art and music package. my only gripe is when i match i don't hear the credit knock...is it me or all you guys?

There is a bug with the credit knock - it knocks 1 less time than it's suppose to.
1 player matches: - no knock -
2 players match: 1 knock
3 players match: 2 knocks
4 players match: 3 knocks

#309 1 year ago

Well, hopefully above will be addressed in future updates.

I do feel Stern needs to step up in the code updating department.

Dialled In is selling well, so Stern can't afford to get lax and not support games properly.

AS is a superb game so make it a masterpiece

#310 1 year ago

Hi there,
I was wondering to add it to my line-up.
Just would like to know what is the best deal between pro and premium.
I heard the mini playfield was to X2 playfield ( X2 through mistery for the Pro)
What are the other main differences, hardware and software? Any another MB like on Tron?
Thanks

#311 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Hi there,
I was wondering to add it to my line-up.
Just would like to know what is the best deal between pro and premium.
I heard the mini playfield was to X2 playfield ( X2 through mistery for the Pro)
What are the other main differences, hardware and software? Any another MB like on Tron?
Thanks

It's not x2. It's double scoring which STACKS with the mystery and lower playfield x2. So there's no equivalent on the pro.

#312 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's not x2. It's double scoring which STACKS with the mystery and lower playfield x2. So there's no equivalent on the pro.

Ok, Thanks for the clarification.

Are there other main differences?

#313 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Ok, Thanks for the clarification.
Are there other main differences?

Well, there's an additional drop target (entrance to the elevator), almost double the number of RGB lighting inserts, and I like the cabinet color better on the Prem, personally. But the double scoring and extra RGB inserts are the most important things not on the Pro, IMO.

#314 1 year ago

What does the elevator toy?
Is the ball can go from main to mini playfield through this elevator? Or just a scoop?
Sorry for the question, I have only played a pro.
Thanks

#316 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

What does the elevator toy?
Is the ball can go from main to mini playfield through this elevator? Or just a scoop?
Sorry for the question, I have only played a pro.
Thanks

It's a VUK that shoots the ball up to the mini-playfield from the lower one (behind the additional drop target).

Here's a pic that shows where the ball goes in to hit the target, then when the target's down it is shot up with the VUK, then comes out on the plastic "runway" where it can exit to the right or down the elevator shaft to the trough that kicks the ball to the toybox.

aerosmith-prem (resized).jpg

#317 1 year ago

Anyone had ball hang up's on the premium/LE? Out of sight, right at the back of p/f.

#318 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Anyone had ball hang up's on the premium/LE? Out of sight, right at the back of p/f.

Yep. Had about 3 where ball gets stuck under mini PF. Haven't taken mini PF off to see why this happens yet. I have not personally got a ball stuck but my wife got ball stuck on her first game with her first shot! WTF she felt like she had broken pin first shot lol. It took awhile to find the ball the first time, now I know I have a tool that can easily remove ball when this happens.

If it becomes more frequent I will look under mini PF and adjust accordingly. Has anyone had to do this? Would be good to know what fix works best. Cheers

#319 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinball_Freak:

Yep. Had about 3 where ball gets stuck under mini PF. Haven't taken mini PF off to see why this happens yet. I have not personally got a ball stuck but my wife got ball stuck on her first game with her first shot! WTF she felt like she had broken pin first shot lol. It took awhile to find the ball the first time, now I know I have a tool that can easily remove ball when this happens.
If it becomes more frequent I will look under mini PF and adjust accordingly. Has anyone had to do this? Would be good to know what fix works best. Cheers

If it's down the elevator from the mini PF, quite a few have had a piece partially obstructing that path. Remove the Mini-PF enough to shift whatever's in the way. It solved the problem for everyone else that mentioned it.

#320 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

If it's down the elevator from the mini PF, quite a few have had a piece partially obstructing that path. Remove the Mini-PF enough to shift whatever's in the way. It solved the problem for everyone else that mentioned it.

Happens when you hit ball up lock(where ball is thrown into toy box) from lower flippers. Ball is fine going down elevator.

#321 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Dialled In is selling well, so Stern can't afford to get lax and not support games properly.

I got to play dialed in at the Operating Room Pinball Bar today, and I still find the them to be odd, the game is a lot of fun to play and the 3D holographic theater in the center of the game is simply amazing! Its not enough for me to purchase one, but it's fun enough for me to toss my dollars at to play.

#322 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinball_Freak:

Yep. Had about 3 where ball gets stuck under mini PF. Haven't taken mini PF off to see why this happens yet. I have not personally got a ball stuck but my wife got ball stuck on her first game with her first shot! WTF she felt like she had broken pin first shot lol. It took awhile to find the ball the first time, now I know I have a tool that can easily remove ball when this happens.
If it becomes more frequent I will look under mini PF and adjust accordingly. Has anyone had to do this? Would be good to know what fix works best. Cheers

Interesting.

It is a slow ball that it gets stuck.

Taking the mini p/f off looks like a huge pain!

#323 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Interesting.
It is a slow ball that it gets stuck.
Taking the mini p/f off looks like a huge pain!

Yes it's a slower shot! As you say taking off mini pf looks like a pain that I'm not going to do until it becomes more frequent. Only 3 times in 500+ games so no biggie yet.

#324 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinball_Freak:

Yes it's a slower shot! As you say taking off mini pf looks like a pain that I'm not going to do until it becomes more frequent. Only 3 times in 500+ games so no biggie yet.

I am about 3 in 25 games so I may need to investigate.

Probably wait until my TITAN purple rubbers arrive and take a good look then.

#325 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's not x2. It's double scoring which STACKS with the mystery and lower playfield x2. So there's no equivalent on the pro.

Pinball equivalent of "but this goes to eleven!"

You can still get some pretty big stacks going on the Pro. E.g. light a shot for double scoring, lock 3 balls during TITA multiball, and that shot is worth 6x. I also think scores are doubled again if hit as part of a combo - I need to look into this.

#326 1 year ago

We are live streaming Aerosmith tonight.
Twitch.tv/thepinballmafia
9:00 CST till 11:00
Tonight we are featuring two new mods sent to us from Hookedonpinball.com
First mod is a Warning Flying Toys sign that can go over the ball launch saucer or over the center ramp.
Second mod is a LED light strip that is hooked into the pop bumper caps. It has a small strip that shines down on the rear of the playfield and another the shines on the Aerosmith letters on the translite.

Tune in for the mods or just some great pinball and chat.

IMG_4051 (resized).JPG

IMG_4052 (resized).JPG

#327 1 year ago

nice mods. ask the guys to put together an elevator floor indicator placed on top of the elevator, all lit up in a retro way like the video displays. that i would buy.

#328 1 year ago
Quoted from Arcade:

We are live streaming Aerosmith tonight.
Twitch.tv/thepinballmafia
9:00 CST till 11:00
Tonight we are featuring two new mods sent to us from Hookedonpinball.com
First mod is a Warning Flying Toys sign that can go over the ball launch saucer or over the center ramp.
Second mod is a LED light strip that is hooked into the pop bumper caps. It has a small strip that shines down on the rear of the playfield and another the shines on the Aerosmith letters on the translite.
Tune in for the mods or just some great pinball and chat.

I will be watching this if it's archived. Thanks for letting us know.

#329 1 year ago

A friend made me a nice iron/inox topper. laser cut process.
Look great mounted on the pin. same look as the nice ramps of the Aero. ^^

If U want more informations or need a copy, feel free to contact me, I will give U his email

LOGN1249TIT (resized).jpg

aero top 03 (resized).jpg

aero top 02 (resized).jpg

aero top 01 (resized).jpg

#330 1 year ago

So I haven't followed AS in a couple months. Have their been any code updates or hints of any code updates coming?

#331 1 year ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

So I haven't followed AS in a couple months. Have their been any code updates or hints of any code updates coming?

Haven't heard of more code coming yet. But the KISS song-changing bug is confirmed to be in the AS code, too.

#332 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinball_Freak:

Yes it's a slower shot! As you say taking off mini pf looks like a pain that I'm not going to do until it becomes more frequent. Only 3 times in 500+ games so no biggie yet.

I can see where it is getting stuck. You can just see the ball here. Gets just past half way behind mini p/f and when going very slowly it can come to rest where 2 lane guides meet.

I guess bending one of those would fix but looks a complete pain to get to....

IMG_1712 (resized).JPG

#333 1 year ago

Try and think of it as a good opportunity to clean and wax that area of the playfield

#334 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Haven't heard of more code coming yet. But the KISS song-changing bug is confirmed to be in the AS code, too.

Please tell me what you are on about? Who from Stern and when was this confirmed. You seem to be the only person that keeps saying this.

#335 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Please tell me what you are on about? Who from Stern and when was this confirmed. You seem to be the only person that keeps saying this.

I know it's hard, but try to keep up before making false accusations. I never said Stern confirmed it, but with three people now mentioning the issue (me and two others) and the fact that they cloned KISS code as a base for Aerosmith, it's pretty clear what happened.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aerosmith-owner-then-walk-this-way/page/6#post-3859299
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aerosmith-owner-then-walk-this-way/page/6#post-3859505

#336 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

...I never said Stern confirmed it ... the fact that they cloned KISS code as a base for Aerosmith...

Sorry, but Huh? Plus two posts that just mention the bug... neither mention KISS or provide any evidence to this statement.

While Stern certainly uses a base software package, that's only smart, it doesn't mean that games are clones of each other. What facts back this up?

Were also making a giant leap to a conclusion by arbitrarily deciding that two similar appearing bugs are being caused by the same thing, even if the above statement were proven true.

Possible? Absolutely.
Probable? Sure, why not.
Fact? No.

#337 1 year ago

Took mini p/f off and had to remove left ramp as well - took ages!

Here is exact ball hang up point.

I bent lane guide a little and hopefully nothing to rest on anymore - don't think I can face taking apart again....

Pic is the fixed version!

IMG_1758 (resized).JPG

#338 1 year ago
Quoted from merccat:

Sorry, but Huh? Plus two posts that just mention the bug... neither mention KISS or provide any evidence to this statement.
While Stern certainly uses a base software package, that's only smart, it doesn't mean that games are clones of each other. What facts back this up?
Were also making a giant leap to a conclusion by arbitrarily deciding that two similar appearing bugs are being caused by the same thing, even if the above statement were proven true.
Possible? Absolutely.
Probable? Sure, why not.
Fact? No.

Thanks Mercat. I agree completely!

#339 1 year ago

Purple Titan's really suit this game. Took a bit of time but much better than stock.

IMG_1768 (resized).JPG

IMG_1771 (resized).JPG

#340 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

I know it's hard, but try to keep up before making false accusations. I never said Stern confirmed it, but with three people now mentioning the issue (me and two others) and the fact that they cloned KISS code as a base for Aerosmith, it's pretty clear what happened.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aerosmith-owner-then-walk-this-way/page/6#post-3859299
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aerosmith-owner-then-walk-this-way/page/6#post-3859505

Setting KISS aside, this is pretty easy to reproduce on AS. Just hit the flippers a few times between the plunge and the first switch hit. I've also seen this now when selecting a song at the scoop. I think it would be better to lock in the song when the ball leaves the shooter lane or the scoop, like on Metallica.

It doesn't change my overall opinion of the game, which is that it's a grand slam for Stern.

#341 1 year ago

Loving the game so far, but need some code to include the lockbar "Smart button". I can't recall using it for anything other than launching a ball.

#342 1 year ago
Quoted from jints56:

Loving the game so far, but need some code to include the lockbar "Smart button". I can't recall using it for anything other than launching a ball.

It's also used for the mystery award smart missiles.

#343 1 year ago
Quoted from merccat:

While Stern certainly uses a base software package, that's only smart, it doesn't mean that games are clones of each other. What facts back this up?

Well, the fact that the Aerosmith shipped software still had "KISS Army Multiball" in the settings menu of the initial release is a pretty good clue.

The AS song select bug is activated in EXACTLY the same way as KISS. That's another big clue.

It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots.

#344 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Well, the fact that the Aerosmith shipped software still had "KISS Army Multiball" in the settings menu of the initial release is a pretty good clue.
The AS song select bug is activated in EXACTLY the same way as KISS. That's another big clue.
It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots.

I wouldn't call it clone of the code, any company worth their salt will be making an internal SDK (Software Development Kit) to do basic tasks. Yes the same bug could end up in multiple games if they used one of the same library functions. Fine, it's easier to fix in the SDK and have multiple games fixed at once then use unique code in every application. Nevermind the vast savings on development costs and the reliability improvement of using proven code.

I'm sure Stern starts with a base game package that has basic menus, basic play etc. Then as the design of the game is implemented they will pull shared resources and use the pieces that make sense. If a new game needs a tweak to a library then they will make the tweak and hopefully keep it backward compatible.

I think this exact process is why Aerosmith is so damn good out of the box. I think they've made a conscious decision to use a more mature software development process. Things should only continue to get better if they are actually doing things this way.

#345 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverballNut:

I'm sure Stern starts with a base game package that has basic menus, basic play etc. Then as the design of the game is implemented they will pull shared resources and use the pieces that make sense.

Pretty sure that's what I said: "...they cloned KISS code as a base for Aerosmith..."

No idea why that's such a controversial statement in light of the clear evidence.

#346 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Pretty sure that's what I said: "...they cloned KISS code as a base for Aerosmith..."
No idea why that's such a controversial statement in light of the clear evidence.

Semantics mostly. I think KISS and AS probably started from the same blank base, but it's highly doubtful that they took the KISS code, copied (cloned) it to a directory and then started removing/changing items. That would take more time and usually leads to more bugs and harder to maintain code.

Think of it more like this

->Base Code (including a library of common components)
|-> KISS
|-> AS
|-> SW

I doubt it was KISS -> AS. That would lead to two completely separate code branches that would need to be maintained separately. If you found a bug with a node board firmware you'd have to go back and change it in every branch of code. If you use the same base libraries, you would change it in one spot, test on one machine and all would be good for any others.

#347 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverballNut:

Semantics mostly. I think KISS and AS probably started from the same blank base, but it's highly doubtful that they took the KISS code, copied (cloned) it to a directory and then started removing/changing items. That would take more time and usually leads to more bugs and harder to maintain code.
Think of it more like this
->Base Code (including a library of common components)
|-> KISS
|-> AS
|-> SW
I doubt it was KISS -> AS. That would lead to two completely separate code branches that would need to be maintained separately. If you found a bug with a node board firmware you'd have to go back and change it in every branch of code. If you use the same base libraries, you would change it in one spot, test on one machine and all would be good for any others.

That's all well and good, but that wouldn't explain how KISS Army Multiball ended up in the menus on Aerosmith. You're giving them WAY too much operational efficiency credit. Extremely clear they didn't start from a blank re-usable code base. Chunks were copied wholesale from existing KISS code, then modified. Some more than others.

#348 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

That's all well and good, but that wouldn't explain how KISS Army Multiball ended up in the menus on Aerosmith. You're giving them WAY too much operational efficiency credit. Extremely clear they didn't start from a blank re-usable code base. Chunks were copied wholesale from existing KISS code, then modified. Some more than others.

I could be giving them to much credit, but a simple copy and paste mistake in the menu could be just in the menu label (the function call). The underlying code can still be in the code base.

e.g. They could have a call such as setMultiballMenuOption("KISS Army Multiball", 4); Where the title and number of balls are passed in. All of the functionality for handling the option would be down lower. Yes engineers will copy and paste routinely from known code sources instead of typing it all from memory and I don't see a problem with that. The problem is they didn't change the title.

I will say with how many games they are releasing a year, it's highly doubtful that each is an independent branch. They have to be using a SDK/library at the bottom and reusing/sharing as much as possible. That is just good use of software resources. Engineers (me included) just cost to much to start from scratch every time.

#349 1 year ago

Great explanation silverballnut ... i would suspect menu items are driven by a configuration file of some sort. I could easily see them copying over a menu config file into the new solution... or was accidently left in a solution template.

Shared libraries, sdk's, templates, frameworks etc are the way to go today or else you will go bankrupt.

They are an investment up front but once developed you can speed up future projects and improve their maintainability.

I think the word clone would probably only really bother software engineers who have an entirely different perspective on "clone" vs what normal people would have.

#350 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverballNut:

I could be giving them to much credit, but a simple copy and paste mistake in the menu could be just in the menu label (the function call). The underlying code can still be in the code base.
e.g. They could have a call such as setMultiballMenuOption("KISS Army Multiball", 4); Where the title and number of balls are passed in. All of the functionality for handling the option would be down lower. Yes engineers will copy and paste routinely from known code sources instead of typing it all from memory and I don't see a problem with that. The problem is they didn't change the title.
I will say with how many games they are releasing a year, it's highly doubtful that each is an independent branch. They have to be using a SDK/library at the bottom and reusing/sharing as much as possible. That is just good use of software resources. Engineers (me included) just cost to much to start from scratch every time.

Dunno. I've seen the most horrendous code management and deployment processes at so many major game software companies firsthand over 25 years that I am extremely jaded about that kind of stuff. There's the right way and then there's the way it usually gets done. Given the two clear markers (Kiss Army Multiball appearing in AS menu, and the AS song bug that behaves exactly like the KISS one) I'm pretty sure best practices were not in force for at least part of the project.

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