(Topic ID: 249525)

Advice For Early Solid State Owners


By oldschoolbob

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 125 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Coyote
  • Topic is favorited by 55 Pinsiders

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    There are 125 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 9 months ago

    Looks like the stripping machine wasn't set up correctly.
    Supposed to be centered with an overall cut-off width of 2.8mm max.

    #102 9 months ago

    I like trifurcon contacts also. They only need to be used on a few of the high traffic wires though. I just got in another Bally -35 game where some hero used them on all of the rectifier housings. I almost took to chaining it up to a four wheel drive truck to get the bastard apart. Bad bridge.

    #103 9 months ago
    Quoted from Mombo-number-5:

    Has anyone noticed that less and less of the .156 molex crimp contacts don't have an equal "wing" on each side of the top to slide into the housing? I have been tossing out around 28% of them these days.

    Where did you buy these from? Did they come from a reputable electronics supplier or ebay?

    #104 9 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    This one really has my curiosity up.
    See attached mugshot of a Molex 08-52-0125 -- 0.156" trifurcon style for 22-26AWG wire.
    Can you indicate what would be off with those. Do keep in mind that Molex, being the penny pinching company they are, has closed US plants this past year and started shipping contacts made in India this year. So far, I haven't seen issues with contacts but have seen lots of broken and deformed headers coming out of India this year. The 08-52-0125 contact in this photo came from India.[quoted image]

    Hi Ed,

    The crimp flanges for the insulation are different for one thing. Molex normally has those more square, not tapered as in your photo.

    Also, the ribs where the wire is crimped, do they look more shallow than older Molex pins? Compare with this photo - the tinned bifurcated pins are original Molex, the brass/bronze coloured ones are inferior copies.

    John :-#)#
    Molex_Loose_Counterfeit_Chain (resized).JPGMolex_Top_Counterfeit_Bottom (resized).JPG

    #105 9 months ago

    The ones in the picture that I posted were genuine Molex contacts -- 08-52-0125.
    The ones in the picture that Mombo posted were also genuine Molex contacts -- 08-52-0072 (kind of, see below).
    I know both of these two for a fact.

    Molex didn't think I had a big enough volume to buy direct so they setup an account with their master distributor -- Waldom.
    I buy presealed bags of 100 of the 08-52-0072 contacts from Waldom. These Waldom provided contacts originate from 08-52-0071 contacts. 08-52-0071 and 08-52-0072 contacts are identical except for one thing: 08-52-0071 comes on reels of 7000, 08-52-0072 come in boxes of 7000 (loose piece).
    Waldom only buys full reels from Molex and has their own de-spooler for redistribution of contacts rather than buying loose piece from Molex.
    I'll check my stock Monday and see what I have. If I have any like the photo posted by Mombo then I need to have a serious talk with Waldom (again).

    John, the ones in your photo are 08-05-0301 Chinese "wannabees" intended for use with the double sided edge connectors as used by Gottlieb. They are not gold plated but are gold "flashed" --> very thin gold plating. For most uses that require gold, gold flash is good enough but against Gottlieb tin plated edge connectors - gold flash is not desired. I had a few of these contacts sent to me for evaluation. In a pinch, they will work but I wouldn't expect them to last as long as the originals. These wannabees have a softer base metal and tend to bend too easily. I believe I found the source for these... a Chinese company, of course. They have practically the entire Molex catalog on their website. I wouldn't trust Chinese contacts for anything as the base metal is never quite right -- either too flexible (bendable) or too rigid (breakable).

    #106 9 months ago

    Hi all, Clearly needing more testing I took it upon myself to do some more testing. Using Remington 20 AWG hook up wire with a 10/30 strand and a wire diameter of 0.0320" and an overall diameter of 0.0700" I took approximately 1 foot of that and crimped a bifurcated Arcadeshop contact to one end and a regular Molex 08-52-0072 to the other end. I put them both in my bench vice being careful not to involve the crimped part itself and pulled upward. I tried this twice and John was right, the gold flashed one gave up before the Molex one did. Okay, -but- I was very close to lifting a very heavy work bench off the floor doing so, that is a non issue IMHO. Dis-simular metals can have an adverse reaction to each other. https://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm Doesn't seem to apply to gold but I don't have a thousand years to see if that is true or not. I simulated putting a connector on and off of a circuit board and found the gold flashed type to be superior, they are a bit more rigid but are not breakable. The Molex version lost it flexibility way to soon. If there were a choice today I would only buy the gold flashed type. Very truly yours. It's Monday.

    #107 9 months ago

    This is what we are up against. The despooler is nearly nuts on with the 2.72mm with each cut. Problem is - it is off centered. As clearly stated in note 5 - they are to be symetrical within half of the total tolerance or 0.04mm. These are 1.85mm across contact area (OK) but one side is trimmed nearly flush (about 0.04mm) with body and opposite side is extended out to just over 0.8mm. Opened two bags. First bag had *two* like this. Second bag - nearly half of them were like this. Most were not this bad. Worst ones such as the one shown do actually push the contact area in the opposite direction. Waldom/Molex will be contacted in the morning.

    08520072_Defect (resized).jpg
    #108 9 months ago

    That's some bad QC.... you have a right to be pissed. No way are those going into the housings and staying correctly.

    #109 9 months ago

    Sort of what I was saying. You can make a lot of them work but like the one you pictured, if it's that bad it is dumpster bait.

    #110 9 months ago

    Ed seems reputable to me. Top flight in fact.

    #111 9 months ago

    Ed is beyond repute, he's offers top quality parts and service.

    #112 9 months ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    Ed is beyond repute, he's offers top quality parts and service.

    Yes, that's why he's going to take care of it with his supplier - it sucks for him to get stuck with the poor QC he posted pics of.

    #113 9 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    The ones in the picture that I posted were genuine Molex contacts -- 08-52-0125.
    The ones in the picture that Mombo posted were also genuine Molex contacts -- 08-52-0072 (kind of, see below).
    I know both of these two for a fact.
    Molex didn't think I had a big enough volume to buy direct so they setup an account with their master distributor -- Waldom.
    I buy presealed bags of 100 of the 08-52-0072 contacts from Waldom. These Waldom provided contacts originate from 08-52-0071 contacts. 08-52-0071 and 08-52-0072 contacts are identical except for one thing: 08-52-0071 comes on reels of 7000, 08-52-0072 come in boxes of 7000 (loose piece).
    Waldom only buys full reels from Molex and has their own de-spooler for redistribution of contacts rather than buying loose piece from Molex.
    I'll check my stock Monday and see what I have. If I have any like the photo posted by Mombo then I need to have a serious talk with Waldom (again).
    John, the ones in your photo are 08-05-0301 Chinese "wannabees" intended for use with the double sided edge connectors as used by Gottlieb. They are not gold plated but are gold "flashed" --> very thin gold plating. For most uses that require gold, gold flash is good enough but against Gottlieb tin plated edge connectors - gold flash is not desired. I had a few of these contacts sent to me for evaluation. In a pinch, they will work but I wouldn't expect them to last as long as the originals. These wannabees have a softer base metal and tend to bend too easily. I believe I found the source for these... a Chinese company, of course. They have practically the entire Molex catalog on their website. I wouldn't trust Chinese contacts for anything as the base metal is never quite right -- either too flexible (bendable) or too rigid (breakable).

    So, in the long run (wondering how this may have happened) I would suppose the de-reeler is a noise making machine. I would figure the guys a Waldom didn't want to listen to that all day and cranked it up to top speed. One hiccup and we would have fudge ups galore. Then being they are sold by weight when your moving 100's or 1000's at a time nobody noticed until a guy using them had to start tossing out loosers. I must have got one of the second types of bags you had opened. I don't think half are bad, but I don't know, it will be awhile before I get through all them...I hope (sic of doing connectors, who ain't?). Do you use an ohaus 2610? And yes, just to put it in writing, I know you wouldn't send these out if you knew about them. I'm going to quite writing about Molex stuff altogether, it always causes a sh!t storm. P.S. Ed, please leave the baseball bat at home if you go over there today.

    #114 9 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    That's some bad QC.... you have a right to be pissed. No way are those going into the housings and staying correctly.

    I'm sure they are packed by weight, the only QC would be what the gram scale says.
    I'm not pissed, found it surprising if anything. I have been a Great Plains customer for 20 years or so. Ed is always the first choice for pinball electronic repair stuff. I don't know what the Mouser catalog is like these days, but you use to need a BA in Greek to figure it out the last time I looked at it. Digikey (a Minnesota company about 85 miles from me) can't seem to find their ass with both hands, it takes them 3 weeks to change their mind (or used to).

    #115 9 months ago

    No news from Waldom today. They forwarded the info to their QA so things may go quite for a few days. I'll update when I get more info.

    Waldom is pretty good about fixing issues so far. This isn't my first issue with them - previously it had to do with their shipping dept. One piece of kraft paper tape cannot hold 50# boxes shut especially when going through UPS. Haven't seen an issue since. Hopefully they'll make good on this one as well.

    Regarding the de-reelers - awesome to watch. I watched them de-reel end cut contacts such as 02-09-1119. Load the reel, hit start and the entire reel would be done in a few minutes. These 08-52-0072 contacts are side cut contacts so they take a considerably longer amount of time. But still pretty quick and sounded like an overgrown sewing machine. I think that the problem was due to the types of cuts we are seeing with these contacts -> they had the speed set too high and it wasn't centering properly on the contacts at that speed. Think Lucile Ball with the cake baking machine.

    For a scale - I have an Adam Tech HCB123.

    #116 8 months ago

    Hey folks... I'm having a hell of a time with my Black Jack. It boots and plays, but after being on for 10 mins it will randomly add credits and points during a game and random controlled lights will get stuck on. Then after a while longer, it will just reset over and over with either 3 flashes then nothing, or one or two flashes with the LED stuck on, sometimes no flashes at all and no LED, sometimes the LED is stuck on as soon as power is on... etc etc.

    If I leave it off for a while, it works again but the cycle repeats... it happens both on the bench and in the game. Boots fine at first, then it goes screwy after it's on a few mins.

    There's no corrosion on the board at all, it's very clean, but I've rebuilt the reset section anyways. I've also replaced the U6, U7, U8, U9, U10, U11 IC sockets. I removed the RAM/battery and added barakandl's NVRAM. I replaced U11 and U10 (with new W65C21N). I replaced U14 (with new CD4049UBE). Nothing's changed. I have +5v everywhere that needs it, and pretty sure there's pulses where there should be but I just get lost after a while of checking.

    Since the board starts up and plays fine after it's been off for a while, I'm thinking it's a bad IC... something heating up internally and failing. I think have every part on hand to replace everything on the board (except a 6800 and a 6810 unfortunately... and those are the only 2 IC's getting slightly warm).

    I dunno where to go from here. Could someone give me an idea what to check to confirm which IC is bad? ...or any other ideas what could be wrong? Thanks!

    #117 8 months ago
    Quoted from 76brian:

    Hey folks... I'm having a hell of a time with my Black Jack. It boots and plays, but after being on for 10 mins it will randomly add credits and points during a game and random controlled lights will get stuck on. Then after a while longer, it will just reset over and over with either 3 flashes then nothing, or one or two flashes with the LED stuck on, sometimes no flashes at all and no LED, sometimes the LED is stuck on as soon as power is on... etc etc.
    If I leave it off for a while, it works again but the cycle repeats... it happens both on the bench and in the game. Boots fine at first, then it goes screwy after it's on a few mins.
    There's no corrosion on the board at all, it's very clean, but I've rebuilt the reset section anyways. I've also replaced the U6, U7, U8, U9, U10, U11 IC sockets. I removed the RAM/battery and added barakandl's NVRAM. I replaced U11 and U10 (with new W65C21N). I replaced U14 (with new CD4049UBE). Nothing's changed. I have +5v everywhere that needs it, and pretty sure there's pulses where there should be but I just get lost after a while of checking.
    Since the board starts up and plays fine after it's been off for a while, I'm thinking it's a bad IC... something heating up internally and failing. I think have every part on hand to replace everything on the board (except a 6800 and a 6810 unfortunately... and those are the only 2 IC's getting slightly warm).
    I dunno where to go from here. Could someone give me an idea what to check to confirm which IC is bad? ...or any other ideas what could be wrong? Thanks!

    After it messes up I would do a switch test. It sound like one or more stuck switches.

    #118 8 months ago
    Quoted from Mombo-number-5:

    I'm sure they are packed by weight, the only QC would be what the gram scale says.
    I'm not pissed, found it surprising if anything. I have been a Great Plains customer for 20 years or so. Ed is always the first choice for pinball electronic repair stuff. I don't know what the Mouser catalog is like these days, but you use to need a BA in Greek to figure it out the last time I looked at it. Digikey (a Minnesota company about 85 miles from me) can't seem to find their ass with both hands, it takes them 3 weeks to change their mind (or used to).

    I meant Ed must be pissed.... as the supplier he's going to be ordering thousands and thousands of these, and the complaints are going to be directed at him, and now he has to deal with it. Ed's great no one disputes that.

    #120 8 months ago
    Quoted from Mombo-number-5:

    After it messes up I would do a switch test. It sound like one or more stuck switches.

    Quoted from 76brian:

    it happens both on the bench and in the game.

    #121 8 months ago

    Does anyone know the specs of the varistor VR1 on the Stern's TA-100 (Rectifier) board? It's listed in the schematics as "V100ĦA15". I can't see nor make out what the "Ħ" is supposed to be.

    #122 8 months ago

    Seaerch this string: Replacement Line Filter MOV?

    I can't figure out how to copy the whole string, but your answer's there.

    #123 8 months ago
    Quoted from Billc479:

    Seaerch this string: Replacement Line Filter MOV?
    I can't figure out how to copy the whole string, but your answer's there.

    Are the specs the same on the 43v coil feed as the line voltage (120v)? Is why I'm asking - I got plenty for line voltage, but don't know if the specs for the one on the TA-100 is the same or not.

    #124 8 months ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    "V100ĦA15". I can't see nor make out what the "Ħ" is supposed to be.

    It should be a "Z" which is Littelfuses standard varistor codes. See "V100ZA15P" at GreatPlains. An alternate part number you can use is "14D101K"

    Quoted from Coyote:

    Are the specs the same on the 43v coil feed as the line voltage (120v)?

    No.
    The line voltage varistor is a higher voltage part and won't be effective across the solenoid voltage at suppressing lower voltage surges.

    #125 8 months ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    It should be a "Z" which is Littelfuses standard varistor codes. See "V100ZA15P" at GreatPlains. An alternate part number you can use is "14D101K"
    No.
    The line voltage varistor is a higher voltage part and won't be effective across the solenoid voltage at suppressing lower voltage surges.

    Ah, thank you. The 'Z' pulls up a part number on a couple sites. I didn't thin kthe same one could be used on line voltage vs the coil feed, but wanted to ask before I blew somethin' up. (Or made it possible to blow something up..)

    Thanks! Few of them ordered!

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