(Topic ID: 249525)

Advice For Early Solid State Owners


By oldschoolbob

7 months ago



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  • 125 posts
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  • Latest reply 7 months ago by Coyote
  • Topic is favorited by 53 Pinsiders

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    There are 125 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 7 months ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    I have a similar question. On my Globetrotters, the display connectors are flaky. Does anyone know what size connectors to get for them?[quoted image]

    That's a 20 pin 0.156" connector - here it is on GPE:

    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/search.asp

    Part Number CS156-20-LR

    Also, you'll need pins and a crimper...

    08-52-0125 (part number for trifurcon pins)

    1028-CT (this is one crimper)

    W-HT-1919 (this is an alternate)

    Something I'm not certain of on the crimpers - I use one similar to the 1028-CT, and it doesn't list the exact trifurcon p/n as compatible, but I've been pretty successful with it, it took a few tries until I got the technique down - anyone have a preferred tool for crimping those pins?

    #52 7 months ago

    Several have asked about quantity and sizes of connectors. This is my standard order per game:

    10 - .156 headers
    10 - .1 headers
    100 - .156 trifurcon crimp connectors 22-26 ga. wire
    100 - .156 trifurcon crimp connectors 18-20 ga. wire
    250 - .1 crimp connectors

    This is probably more than you'll need but I'd rather have extras than run short.

    The following photos indicate the sizes of the connectors. Red shows the .156 headers and green shows .1 headers.

    All display headers (5) are .156.

    Hope this helps.

    IMG_2454a (resized).jpgIMG_2441a (resized).jpgIMG_2456a (resized).jpgIMG_2460a (resized).jpgIMG_2404a (resized).jpg
    #53 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Several have asked about quantity and sizes of connectors. This is my standard order per game:
    10 - .156 headers
    10 - .1 headers
    100 - .156 trifurcon crimp connectors 22-26 ga. wire
    100 - .156 trifurcon crimp connectors 18-20 ga. wire
    250 - .1 crimp connectors
    This is probably more than you'll need but I'd rather have extras than run short.
    The following photos indicate the sizes of the connectors. Red shows the .156 headers and green shows .1 headers.
    All display headers (5) are .156.
    Hope this helps.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    So oldschoolbob what pin configurations of the headers do you typically keep on hand? Say QTY 10 .156 8 pin, QTY 10 .156 12 pin, etc...?

    #54 7 months ago

    .1 headers come in 36 pin strips.
    .156 headers come in 24 pin strips.
    Cut to size.

    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=26-48-1241

    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=22-28-4361

    tip: if you look closely at the photos above you'll see that I mark where the key pins are located before I remove the old headers. This helps locate the key pins for removal after the new pins are installed.

    Bob

    #55 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    .1 headers come in 36 pin strips.
    .156 headers come in 24 pin strips.
    Cut to size.
    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=26-48-1241
    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=22-28-4361
    tip: if you look closely at the photos above you'll see that I mark where the key pins are located before I remove the old headers. This helps locate the key pins for removal after the new pins are installed.
    Bob

    What about sockets/receptacle connectors? What is best to keep on hand? .100 as well as .156 ?

    Thanks!!

    #56 7 months ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    To all: can anyone tell me the amount of and type (pin count, .100 or .156) in a Bally Night Rider?
    Even if it's close it would be appreciated, going to order up through GPE.

    You can figure it out easy enough. Look at your boards where the connectors are. Each connector will have 2 numbers beside it. There will be a #1 and there will be another number. Say #17. That tells you there are 17 pins in that connector. But it might be #18. Or #19. Or #12.

    Keep track of the size of the pins as you count them up. The .100 pins are usually in the salmon colored connectors. The .156 larger size pins will usually be in the white connector wafers.

    Just count them up and add them together on your calculator. Order some extras. They are cheap, so don't cheap out. Get some extras. Odds are you will destroy a few when performing your installations.

    Order some extra keyway blocker pins in both sizes. I can't tell you how many times I have come upon connectors with no blocking pins installed. Those blocker pins keep you from plugging things in incorrectly and frying your pin.

    #57 7 months ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    What about sockets/receptacle connectors? What is best to keep on hand?

    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=68

    If you're talking about connector plug housings, I don't normally keep any on hand - too many sizes. Look them over before you order - if any look burnt, broken, cracked or questionable I order replacements when I order the connectors. About the only ones I've found that need replaced are the ones on the rectifier board.

    #58 7 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    You can figure it out easy enough. Look at your boards where the connectors are. Each connector will have 2 numbers beside it. There will be a #1 and there will be another number. Say #17. That tells you there are 17 pins in that connector. But it might be #18. Or #19. Or #12.
    Keep track of the size of the pins as you count them up. The .100 pins are usually in the salmon colored connectors. The .156 larger size pins will usually be in the white connector wafers.
    Just count them up and add them together on your calculator. Order some extras. They are cheap, so don't cheap out. Get some extras. Odds are you will destroy a few when performing your installations.
    Order some extra keyway blocker pins in both sizes. I can't tell you how many times I have come upon connectors with no blocking pins installed. Those blocker pins keep you from plugging things in incorrectly and frying your pin.

    Thanks - I understand how to count pins and whatnot - but wondered if there were any 'typical' sizes I needed to have on hand when I were working on Bally, Stern early SS games. There are just so many damned types, didn't want to order too much of what I didn't need.

    #59 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=68
    If you're talking about connector plug housings, I don't normally keep any on hand - too many sizes. Look them over before you order - if any look burnt, broken, cracked or questionable I order replacements when I order the connectors. About the only ones I've found that need replaced are the ones on the rectifier board.

    So, typically, the .156 connectors (the ones that take the most juice) are the ones that are typically cooked? The ones on the rectifier boards?

    #60 7 months ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    anyone have a preferred tool for crimping those pins?

    This ratcheting tool does both crimps at the same time and is very precise, unlike eyeballing it with an old fashioned crimping tool. Works for both .10" and .156".
    amazon.com link »

    #61 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    .1 headers come in 36 pin strips.
    .156 headers come in 24 pin strips.
    Cut to size.
    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=26-48-1241
    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=22-28-4361
    tip: if you look closely at the photos above you'll see that I mark where the key pins are located before I remove the old headers. This helps locate the key pins for removal after the new pins are installed.
    Bob

    I would order the .10" headers from Great Plains, but you can get 50 strips of 40 pin .156" headers for $6.75 on Amazon and qualifies for free shipping with an order over $25:
    amazon.com link »

    #62 7 months ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    Thanks - I understand how to count pins and whatnot - but wondered if there were any 'typical' sizes I needed to have on hand when I were working on Bally, Stern early SS games. There are just so many damned types, didn't want to order too much of what I didn't need.

    I have bought all different sizes over the years, and ended up with a bunch I have no use for - any more I just get a bunch of 40 pin connectors and cut them to size. A dremel or knife works fine.

    #63 7 months ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    I would order the .10" headers from Great Plains, but you can get 50 strips of 40 pin .156" headers for $6.75 on Amazon and qualifies for free shipping with an order over $25:
    amazon.com link »

    bluespin those are .100 headers. 2.54mm = .100", I ordered them when you posted that link the other day. They're much shorter than the originals too, roughly .250 compared to .315". I went ahead and ordered about a hundred bucks worth of connector components from Great Plains to replace them all.

    #64 7 months ago

    Yep, I pay a lot more to have the custom 0.315" headers made (same length as Molex 22-28-4361).
    The ones linked are normally 0.236" to 0.240" long. These shorter connectors cost far less but they're actually a bit too short and the connectors sometimes don't hold on too well.

    #65 7 months ago

    I can never understand why some people will go to all the work to replace something and put in inferior or questionable parts.

    I also don't understand re-flowing. To re-flow a solder joint you should remove the old solder and re-solder. If the old header is corroded or dirty you haven't fixed the problem. Once you've removed the old solder you've already done most of the work. Why not just replace the header.

    #66 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    I can never understand why some people will go to all the work to replace something and put in inferior or questionable parts.

    I'm thinking for the newbie, or someone not versed in electronics, that electronics detail parts all look the same and price becomes the determining factor. I try to buy local whenever I can; Until 6-7 months ago, we had a small independent electronics supply store that had been here since the 60s. I bought my .062 crimp contact sockets and pins from this shop. The shop closed; For good. So, I bought a quantity of these parts from G-P-E.

    I thought these crimp contracts were all the same. Quality of manufacture had not entered my mind. I found out different. The crimps I got from G-P-E have a longer crimp area where the wire gets crimped. The extra length make them much easier to do a proper crimp.

    But how do you know? My local shop did not come out saying, " Hey, these crimps have a shorter crimp area than others you can buy." And G-P-E's website does not call out that its crimps have a longer crimp area. Price was not even a consideration on these low-priced crimps. I just was buying local.

    Unless you know what to look for and what questions to ask, you are going to look at price---until you get burned.
    ===============

    Re-flowing: To do what you are suggesting--and I am not disagreeing--and remove solder and replace headers, to avoid exercises in futility one really needs a de-solder gun. Everybody says Hakko is the one to have; Dig deep for the $300.00. I did and I have never regretted it. But for many, three yards for a de-solder gun is a bridge too far. Yeah, Yeah. You can use the copper braid but for reflowing it is a poor substitute. So, reflowing floats to the top as the go-to option.

    #67 7 months ago
    Quoted from johnboy1313:

    bluespin those are .100 headers. 2.54mm = .100", I ordered them when you posted that link the other day. They're much shorter than the originals too, roughly .250 compared to .315". I went ahead and ordered about a hundred bucks worth of connector components from Great Plains to replace them all.

    I wanted to apologize. I was just repeating what I was told without trying the product out. I’ll be buying the headers from Great Plains going forward

    #68 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    I also don't understand re-flowing. To re-flow a solder joint you should remove the old solder and re-solder. If the old header is corroded or dirty you haven't fixed the problem. Once you've removed the old solder you've already done most of the work. Why not just replace the header.

    You're talking about 2 different problems, a cold (cracked) solder joint and a corroded/dirty header. If your header is bad, replace it.

    If you have one cold solder joint and the header is ok, most people will add some new solder and re-flow. Time and skill/experience would probably be factors in the decision.

    Of course, on a new SS purchase lots of guys will pull the boards and re-flow all the headers real quick just as a matter of course.

    #69 7 months ago

    I guess I just got lucky when I started. I asked about where to get parts and GPE was highly recommended. And his prices are reasonable.

    As far as de-soldering tools, I couldn't afford the Hakko so I got a much cheaper tool. It's worked great as long as I keep it clean. I've never looked back.

    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    lots of guys will pull the boards and re-flow all the headers real quick just as a matter of course.

    What I'm saying is why take the chance. You've got the board out and removed the old solder - for the price of a few headers just replace them and be sure.

    #70 7 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Everybody says Hakko is the one to have; Dig deep for the $300.00. I did and I have never regretted it. But for many, three yards for a de-solder gun is a bridge too far.

    Total overkill IMO unless you're reworking boards day in and day out. One of these with some good quality wick and flux is all most folks would need. I do more board work than most (just not on pins) and I find these far more convenient... it's cordless!

    MJnPnVZm (resized).jpg
    #71 7 months ago

    What exactly makes old solder 'bad' that reflowing it and adding a bit of solder doesn't fix?

    #72 7 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    What exactly makes old solder 'bad' that reflowing it and adding a bit of solder doesn't fix?

    A few reasons... You probably end up adding too much solder and lose the surface tension in the joint making it weaker. It's also been collecting corrosion or dirt for as long as it's been there, and you end up mixing all that in with the new stuff, contaminating the 'new' connection. You're also mixing solder types, with possibly different melting and curing points that would lead to a poor joint. Probably other reasons too but any one of those is a good enough reason on it's own IMO.

    #73 7 months ago
    Quoted from 76brian:

    Total overkill IMO unless you're reworking boards day in and day out. One of these with some good quality wick and flux is all most folks would need. I do more board work than most (just not on pins) and I find these far more convenient... it's cordless! [quoted image]

    I had one of those and gave it away. I also have one of those squeeze bulbs. bought the Hakko and have never been sorry.

    #74 7 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I had one of those and gave it away. I also have one of those squeeze bulbs. bought the Hakko and have never been sorry.

    I've never really found a use for the squeeze bulb type, certainly not to suck up solder. I have the hakko for chips or if I'm doing a lot at once but otherwise the solder sucker tube or braid works fine.

    For people with the hakko.... if you can desolder sideways it makes it a lot easier since you're not overcoming gravity. At a buddy's once I had to replace a 40 pin PIA on a system 11 board he went upstairs for a couple minutes to get a beer and when he came back down I was done with the desoldering AND the installation of a new socket.... he couldn't believe it.

    Of course, major advantage when you're cutting OUT the chip and just have to remove the pins. But still.... less than 10 minutes.

    Get extra filters and change them occasionally to keep the pump in good shape.

    #75 7 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    the solder sucker tube or braid works fine.

    Are you referring to the spring loaded solder tube? I have one like that and it's pretty easy to use and works well.

    #76 7 months ago

    The best advice I can give is to add liquid flux, a lot of it too, for any of the methods. I even add it to braid because the braid often dries out when opened and often has insufficient flux on it to begin with. When using an auto pump desolderer, make sure you are using the proper size tip to fit the via pad to get the best results. The third suggestion is to keep your tools clean and change traps and filters often.

    #77 7 months ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    Are you referring to the spring loaded solder tube? I have one like that and it's pretty easy to use and works well.

    Yeah, I have a couple of old radioshack ones that work fine. Sometimes the pin that pushes the solder out gets misaligned but other than that it's good.

    #78 7 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Yeah, I have a couple of old radioshack ones that work fine

    RadioShack is where mine came from as well.

    #79 7 months ago

    Several of you have talked about those solder suckers. I have a good de-soldering tool but I hate to use it for just one or two solder joints. It takes a while to heat up.

    I heard that you need one with a flexible and heat resistant tip. What do you recommend?

    Thanks

    #80 7 months ago
    Quoted from 76brian:

    Total overkill IMO unless you're reworking boards day in and day out. One of these with some good quality wick and flux is all most folks would need. I do more board work than most (just not on pins) and I find these far more convenient... it's cordless! [quoted image]

    I have a little larger one - and also a desoldering tool - and I completely prefer the old school 'Solda-Pull-It' (?) that I got from Jameco, including the extra tips. The desoldering tool is a PITA to clean out. The Solda-pull-it is not.

    https://www.jameco.com/z/HB-017-High-Vacuum-Manual-Desolder-Pump-with-PTFE-Tip_1942139.html?CID=MERCH

    #81 7 months ago

    This is great info, but for a newbie who has never done this before, some of it is going over my head. I just want to do the job right the first time. Is there a youtube video or pinball link that shows the proper steps for replacing the pins & headers?

    #82 7 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    This is great info, but for a newbie who has never done this before, some of it is going over my head.

    Another thing you can do is get some electronics education at a local trade school or college. Then you won't be a newbie anymore!

    #83 7 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    This is great info, but for a newbie who has never done this before, some of it is going over my head. I just want to do the job right the first time. Is there a youtube video or pinball link that shows the proper steps for replacing the pins & headers?

    The most important thing to know, in my opinion, is controlling heat. The shorter the duration of heat applied to the components leads to less potential damage.

    And the most important thing to have when starting a solder/de-solder job is a steady hand. I usually cut back to four cups of coffee from my usual sixteen when I know I'm going to be soldering that day.

    When I'm soldering or de-soldering I 'jump on' the item I'm soldering/de-soldering as quick as I can. I typically use 650 degrees farenheit for most things I'm soldering/de-soldering.

    Keep a sharp eye on when the component heats up enough for the solder to flow, it will look like liquid mercury when it's liquid, and more like tin or zinc or lead when it's no longer liquid.

    Make sure all sides of the item you're soldering are covered in with a proper amount of solder, and there are no gaps.

    https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-guide-excellent-soldering/making-a-good-solder-joint

    https://www.howcast.com/videos/504729-how-to-create-a-good-joint-soldering

    https://www.howcast.com/videos/504735-how-to-remove-solder-soldering

    #84 7 months ago

    Has anyone noticed that less and less of the .156 molex crimp contacts don't have an equal "wing" on each side of the top to slide into the housing? I have been tossing out around 28% of them these days. You can 'get away' with them being a little off but a lot of them will not seat properly at all. You would think a company like Molex would be all over that, but I guess not.

    #85 7 months ago
    Quoted from Mombo-number-5:

    Has anyone noticed that less and less of the .156 molex crimp contacts don't have an equal "wing" on each side of the top to slide into the housing? I have been tossing out around 28% of them these days. You can 'get away' with them being a little off but a lot of them will not seat properly at all. You would think a company like Molex would be all over that, but I guess not.

    What do you mean on this one?

    #86 7 months ago
    Quoted from Mombo-number-5:

    I have been tossing out around 28%

    28% is an interesting number, Why n0t 25%? 0r 30% ? H0w many t0tai c0unt have y0u t0ssed? 50? 100? 200? M0re? iess?

    #87 7 months ago

    This one really has my curiosity up.
    See attached mugshot of a Molex 08-52-0125 -- 0.156" trifurcon style for 22-26AWG wire.
    Can you indicate what would be off with those. Do keep in mind that Molex, being the penny pinching company they are, has closed US plants this past year and started shipping contacts made in India this year. So far, I haven't seen issues with contacts but have seen lots of broken and deformed headers coming out of India this year. The 08-52-0125 contact in this photo came from India.

    08520125_Mugshots (resized).jpg
    #88 7 months ago

    And while I'm playing with my camera. Attached is a completely related photo. This is from the bottom of my paper cup from a Disney World hotel. I was amazed that their soft drink dispensers were keeping track of refills with *paper* cups. Here's a photo of what was on the bottom.

    DisneyWorldChippedCup (resized).jpg
    #89 7 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    And while I'm playing with my camera. Attached is a completely related photo. This is from the bottom of my paper cup from a Disney World hotel. I was amazed that their soft drink dispensers were keeping track of refills with *paper* cups. Here's a photo of what was on the bottom.[quoted image]

    Huh? S0 yu0 are teiiing us that Disney is keeping track wh0 is pigging 0ut 0n refiiis? 0r at ieast keeping track 0f h0w many refiiis are being made?

    #90 7 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Do keep in mind that Molex, being the penny pinching company they are, has closed US plants this past year and started shipping contacts made in India this year.

    This really worries me - how much can they be saving?

    What are the dark areas on those photos? Shadows - I hope.

    I always liked the trifurcon connectors. But I'm not so sure anymore. Anyone else make these connectors?

    #91 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    What are the dark areas on those photos? Shadows - I hope.

    Yep, just shadows. The 'brown' colors is from the light reflecting off the brown cabinets next to me.
    Nobody else makes trifurcons other than Chinese knockoffs which I wouldn't touch based on the pot metal they use.
    AMP makes a 0.156" series of very similar connectors. I plan on looking into those when I get a chance.

    #92 7 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Do keep in mind that Molex, being the penny pinching company they are, has closed US plants this past year and started shipping contacts made in India this year.

    S0meb0dy needs t0 teii The Prez, Keep these j0bs at h0me

    #93 7 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Huh? S0 yu0 are teiiing us that Disney is keeping track wh0 is pigging 0ut 0n refiiis? 0r at ieast keeping track 0f h0w many refiiis are being made?

    Yep. But the thing that amazes me is the amount of cost they went through to count the number of refills that cost them next to nothing. Cost to design the sensors for the cups (that was the cheap part), cost to design the sensors built into the bottom of the dispensor machines, cost for software to keep track, etc. Gotta be much more than it cost for the refills. All I can figure is this guarantees they can keep continue charging $8 (or what ever it was) for their drinks.

    #94 7 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    S0meb0dy needs t0 teii The Prez, Keep these j0bs at h0me

    At the bar?

    #95 7 months ago

    The dispensers at Disney will keep you from filling a cup you bought last year or filling a cup more than once within a certain time period.

    At least they haven’t installed the sensors on the coffee pots yet!

    #96 7 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    At the bar?

    N0, at h0me, ciean and s0ber,

    With a h0sed up keyb0ard

    And retired----when my j0b went t0 Mexic0, It is never c0ming back,

    #97 7 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Yep. But the thing that amazes me is the amount of cost they went through to count the number of refills that cost them next to nothing. Cost to design the sensors for the cups (that was the cheap part), cost to design the sensors built into the bottom of the dispensor machines, cost for software to keep track, etc. Gotta be much more than it cost for the refills. All I can figure is this guarantees they can keep continue charging $8 (or what ever it was) for their drinks.

    Quoted from Billc479:

    The dispensers at Disney will keep you from filling a cup you bought last year or filling a cup more than once within a certain time period.
    At least they haven’t installed the sensors on the coffee pots yet!

    0K I see, If I were a Disney reguiar, at $8 per drink I w0uid be keeping the cup I b0ught iast year, t00 ! G0d f0rbid if yu0 0pen the d00r 0n an inr00m fridge and t0uch s0mething,

    H0w much is a hamburger ?

    #98 7 months ago

    These.

    DSC08527 (resized).JPGDSC08528 (resized).JPG
    #99 7 months ago

    Pulled 25 at random from the top of the small drawer I keep them in. Of the 25 - nine were bad.

    #100 7 months ago

    So... What is that 36%? I left my slide rule in my desk at school 50 years ago.

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