Advice Needed Por Favor ; My Tenants Filed Chapter 13...

(Topic ID: 174165)

Advice Needed Por Favor ; My Tenants Filed Chapter 13...


By Gryszzz

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by jamieflowers
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

#1 2 years ago

I know there are quite a few attorneys here. Hoping for some quick advice before I have to lawyer up.
These tenants were ALWAYS late, but always paid. I sent them a revised lease a few months ago with $100 late fee addendum. They never returned it. Yes I should've evicted then, but they've been there for 4 years and have been constantly late, but always did eventually pay. So technically they are squatting. Can I evict them ? I need these mouthbreathers the fuck off my property asap.
I know, I know...call a lawyer.
That's kinda what I'm doing.
A SINCERE thank you for any/all advice...
Thank you,
Jason

#2 2 years ago

Landlord-Tenant laws really differ from State to State. In CA, I can break into your house in the middle of the night, start living there, and it will take you six months to get me out. In ND, if I'm one day late with the rent you're allowed to beat me up as you throw me out and confiscate all my stuff.

Okay, so maybe that's a slight exaggeration but my point is it really depends on the State. Hopefully there is an IN attorney on here who is familiar with Landlord-Tenant law. Might be worth talking to your tenants first to see if you can negotiate a move out prior to incurring legal fees. Easier to get them to go voluntarily (even if you lose out on rent) vs. going the court route.

#3 2 years ago

So what machines are you gonna sell to fund the lawyer?
All kidding aside,...winter is here,your gonna be stuck with then till April 2017. So get paperwork started to garnish their state and federal tax returns.
Once a renter.
Mike

#4 2 years ago

There's a big difference between rights under State law (like eviction) and federal bankruptcy protection. Your state law rights for prepetiton debts have likely been impacted and evicting your tenants for prepetition debts could even be in violation of federal law. You should seek a local creditor rights attorney.

#5 2 years ago

Start the eviction process now as it takes time to complete.

#6 2 years ago

No more Mr. Nice Guy.....fuuuck I am hotter than a sorority house shower.
Thank you guys. Looks like on a rental, judges *usually* lift the stay because a lease agreement has no effect on value of tenants estate. No matter what this a huge pain in my ass that is going to cost me, the guy that gave them every break in the goddamn world, time and money.
I might just smash JP with a bat tonight.
FUCK.

#7 2 years ago

Don't get into a confrontation with them, In FL you'll need to post a "3 Day letter" (google this for your state, in IN it's called a 10 day letter) and have proof of it's delivery. After 3 days go to the court house and start the eviction process. Also if they send you a check don't cash it, if you do it implies you've forfeited the right to evict them. All in all it's always better to get a lawyer, you can do the previous 2 steps yourself to save some money. If you do have any correspondence make sure it's in writing" letter, email or text message. Good luck...but it's not worth losing sleep over.

#8 2 years ago

I would recommend you look into hiring a property manager if you are going to remain a landlord. I am a landlord in Southwest Michigan and see people in your situation often. A good manager will pay for themselves and save you a headache. You might be able to find a manager that will take the property now and deal with current tenants.

#9 2 years ago

Not in only do the laws vary state to state, but they also can vary county to county within the state. Philadelphia county is much more tenant friendly then Bucks or Montgomery counties for instance (which is why I don't own any rentals in Philly). As Kvan said, you will usually have to issue a notice to evict first, then you can move forward with the courts. As a tip, (as I learned from a judge) you can have your tenants waive the right to any notice to evict when they sign the lease. Just include it in one of the paragraphs. It'll save you the 3-15 days in the eviction process. Documentation is paramount. Keep records of everything. As long as they don't pay, you can get them out fairly quickly. Gets a little more difficult with lease violations and partial payments.
Call your local court and ask what you need. They should be helpful in telling you what you'll need. Also, talk to a local landlord, most landlords had to evict someone at one time. Took 10 years before I did, but it happened.

#10 2 years ago

OMG been there done that. Had a pair that was breaking stuff and ripping the water faucet out of the wall when the sheriff rolled up. You know what the sheriff said? I can't do anything, that's a civil matter take them to court. It was unbelievable. I got a lawyer involved "we will get right on that" called a week later to see what the hell was happening. Lawyer said "we are about to go down to the courthouse". That sob sat on the paper over a week while they were smashing my place.

Good luck!!!

#11 2 years ago

Land lording is a business, don't take it personally. Generally the best option with a problem tenant is to get them out as quickly as possible in a way that will not encourage them to damage the place or get you arrested. That way is often giving cash to the problem tenant. I know that you are already "in the hole" and you don't want to lose anymore money, but look at the numbers and see what makes the most sense.

I don't know your area, so I will use some numbers from my area.

Figure a non-paying tenant that is not damaging a property will cost you $500-1,200 per month in lost rent for a small residential rental. Figure it might take you 1-3 months to get them fully out of the property if you go through the legal system plus all of the legal fees to do that. So you are now out anywhere from $750 - $5,000. Add in any damage they do to the place plus the fact that they will leave it incredibly dirty and you will be out at least one week of rental to get the place rent-able and perhaps much longer. It might not even be in a show-able condition to try and get a new tenant for many weeks. Add up all of those costs, wasted time, headaches, etc.

What I would recommend is telling your tenants that "you appreciate their tenancy for all of these years, but the current situation will not work out, how much money will it take to get them to clean and fully move out of the place in the next 48 hours?".

They may tell you to go to hell, but if you are nice about it and at least pretend to be sympathetic to their situation they may give you a number that is far lower than the costs if you go through the legal system to get them out. Once you have gone through a bad eviction process with tenants trashing a place, giving them $500 - $1K (or more) in cash to quickly and voluntarily leave without damaging the place will seem very cheap.

Best of luck

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

OMG been there done that. Had a pair that was breaking stuff and ripping the water faucet out of the wall when the sheriff rolled up. You know what the sheriff said? I can't do anything, that's a civil matter take them to court. It was unbelievable. I got a lawyer involved "we will get right on that" called a week later to see what the hell was happening. Lawyer said "we are about to go down to the courthouse". That sob sat on the paper over a week while they were smashing my place.
Good luck!!!

Sounds like you got a dick lawyer, are you near Mayberry?

#13 2 years ago

Poor timing of post. It's Thanksgiving!

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from poppapin:

Sounds like you got a dick lawyer, are you near Mayberry?

I wish, Barney would have popped a cap in their ass if it would have been his place.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from Electrocute:

Poor timing of post. It's Thanksgiving!

Or poor timing of a tenant causing the op problems over the holidays.

#16 2 years ago

Evicting is easy in Oklahoma - file for it at the courthouse, pay a couple hundred, show up in court, get judgement, call local sheriff to 'encourage' tenant to move. No attorney necessary.

BTW, MG81 nailed it. I will get the tenant into another property - pay deposit, first month, give good reference, etc to avoid squatting and destruction.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from PanaPinResto:

Or poor timing of a tenant causing the op problems over the holidays.

That's a valid point. Forget your worries and enjoy the day!

#18 2 years ago

If legal/possible in your area: Turn off their Internet and TV. They'll be gone a day or two.

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from mg81:

Land lording is a business, don't take it personally. Generally the best option with a problem tenant is to get them out as quickly as possible in a way that will not encourage them to damage the place or get you arrested. That way is often giving cash to the problem tenant. I know that you are already "in the hole" and you don't want to lose anymore money, but look at the numbers and see what makes the most sense.
I don't know your area, so I will use some numbers from my area.
Figure a non-paying tenant that is not damaging a property will cost you $500-1,200 per month in lost rent for a small residential rental. Figure it might take you 1-3 months to get them fully out of the property if you go through the legal system plus all of the legal fees to do that. So you are now out anywhere from $750 - $5,000. Add in any damage they do to the place plus the fact that they will leave it incredibly dirty and you will be out at least one week of rental to get the place rent-able and perhaps much longer. It might not even be in a show-able condition to try and get a new tenant for many weeks. Add up all of those costs, wasted time, headaches, etc.
What I would recommend is telling your tenants that "you appreciate their tenancy for all of these years, but the current situation will not work out, how much money will it take to get them to clean and fully move out of the place in the next 48 hours?".
They may tell you to go to hell, but if you are nice about it and at least pretend to be sympathetic to their situation they may give you a number that is far lower than the costs if you go through the legal system to get them out. Once you have gone through a bad eviction process with tenants trashing a place, giving them $500 - $1K (or more) in cash to quickly and voluntarily leave without damaging the place will seem very cheap.
Best of luck

Yeah, I would suggest "cash for keys" first.

If you aren't already on BiggerPockets, I suggest joining. It's made a massive impact on how I manage my properties.

Good luck!

#20 2 years ago

The water main supplying the house could break. Then the city will turn off the water, condemn the place and throw everybody out. The main problem is to get the place back up to code afterwards.

#21 2 years ago

LOL at all the LEGAL advice in this thread.

#22 2 years ago

Check out bigger pockets forum. It's like pinside but for real estate. I've learned a lot over there.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from mg81:

Land lording is a business, don't take it personally. Generally the best option with a problem tenant is to get them out as quickly as possible in a way that will not encourage them to damage the place or get you arrested. That way is often giving cash to the problem tenant. I know that you are already "in the hole" and you don't want to lose anymore money, but look at the numbers and see what makes the most sense.
I don't know your area, so I will use some numbers from my area.
Figure a non-paying tenant that is not damaging a property will cost you $500-1,200 per month in lost rent for a small residential rental. Figure it might take you 1-3 months to get them fully out of the property if you go through the legal system plus all of the legal fees to do that. So you are now out anywhere from $750 - $5,000. Add in any damage they do to the place plus the fact that they will leave it incredibly dirty and you will be out at least one week of rental to get the place rent-able and perhaps much longer. It might not even be in a show-able condition to try and get a new tenant for many weeks. Add up all of those costs, wasted time, headaches, etc.
What I would recommend is telling your tenants that "you appreciate their tenancy for all of these years, but the current situation will not work out, how much money will it take to get them to clean and fully move out of the place in the next 48 hours?".
They may tell you to go to hell, but if you are nice about it and at least pretend to be sympathetic to their situation they may give you a number that is far lower than the costs if you go through the legal system to get them out. Once you have gone through a bad eviction process with tenants trashing a place, giving them $500 - $1K (or more) in cash to quickly and voluntarily leave without damaging the place will seem very cheap.
Best of luck

+1 Give the above mentioned some serious thought.

Historically it has been proven to be the most effective solution for Wall Street firms and Hedgefunds that own large quantities of mortgages and large rental properties in default. How much you are willing to pay (Called cash for keys) has to do with the expected time period of eviction in your area. You don't really need to spend the money on an attorney if you properly research the eviction process in your area.

#24 2 years ago

I am a Realtor in Va and I will start this with saying that every state/locality is different.

In Va the tenants have a 5 day grace period for rent. On the 6th of the month you need to send them a 5 day letter which basically gives them an additional 5 days to pay before you start the eviction process. On the 12th of the month we go to court and file an Unlawful detainer which basically is the start of formal eviction. The court will then send them a summons (usually 2-3 weeks later) Even if they pay after the 12th of the month you can still try to gain possession through the courts, but if it is the first time you have filed a suit they are allowed to stay if they have paid in full. Once the judge gives you possession you then have a full year to file a Writ of Possession with the court, which basically sends the sheriff to toss them out. It is very important that you send the proper notices and keep a copy for the courts. Also even if they pay the rent you MUST give them a "Rent with Reservation letter" EACH time they bring you money the following year. Google a copy of the letter but it basically states that you will take their money but still reserve the right to toss them if they are late. If you fail to give them the letters then you basically have to start the entire eviction process again which is PITA

Lastly make sure that your lease includes a paragraph that has your tenants waive there homestead exemption, that way you don't get "as" screwed if the go bankrupt.

As always YMMV
Jamie

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