(Topic ID: 160737)

Advice from LARGE # collectors please

By Whysnow

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 7 years ago by rotordave
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    #118 7 years ago

    I would like to think i'm the king of building musical chairs.

    Had a house in michigan, big house, about 3000 sqft with a full basement. it was not a walk out, but i really don't sell games so that wasn't a huge deal. Games go down, but don't come up. Thought i would die in that house... I was wrong about that. never say that, because you're almost always wrong.

    Anywho, had about 60 games in the basement. It was tight but had a good big workshop too. got the crazy idea to expand. Dug out an expansion to the basement for another 800 sqft. connected the two basements through two door ways (one from the shop, so now the shop was "central". Built up too, increasing the home's main and second floor plan. Made room and structure for an elevator, but never implemented it. (If you have a motorized hand cart, you really don't need an elevator.) In the end the house ended up at more than 4000 sqft. But the cost was a lot. Like $125k.

    Note try to keep 4 foot minimum allies between games. This is important. Actually 5 or 6 feet is better. But if you have been to Dayhuff's, you'll see allies too small. on his back row he can't slide glass off, it's too tight. He has a neat system of using glass block to put under the front legs, allowing you to slide the glass off (and over the opposite game.) But that gets old quick and is difficult to do during a party. Also too much butt-on-butt touching when opposing games are played. So plan your rows so you don't have this situation.

    Simply put, home/basement expansion is not worth it. Eventually sold the house and never got that money back. maybe half, but sure didn't increase the house value by the cost of the expansion. What a waste of money.

    Rented warehouse space. As Mr.bally said, first had 2400 sqft plus an 600 sqft mezzanine. The mezz was really cool (24 foot ceilings), but a pain in the ass to bring games up. Also working on games was a pain going up and down stairs for tools and parts. Heating/cooling high ceiling places is difficult too. In the end i will never do another mezzanine. It was cool looking down at everything and playing upstairs. but the risk/cost/cooling were too difficult. had 100 games installed there. aka tilt town.

    Moved to another warehouse space, this time 3200 sqft, no mezzanine (thankfully). Had upper storage using racking, but not a mezz. Had about 120 games there. aka flipper city.

    The problem with warehouse space is it costs money. I started renting during the recession and things were bad here in detroit. Paid $650/month for the 2400 sqft space. Paid $1200/month for the 3200 sqft space a year later. You can see as we started to come out of the recession, things got more expensive. He was going to raise my rent to $1800 per month. Landlords suck too. Also the city could be called by neighbors/enemies, you had limited control (which is another story.)

    Bought the VFW. It's on 10 acres and it's somewhat rural, which is nice. No one to complain. Surrounded by an organic farm on two sides. Bought this as we were coming out of the housing crisis, so the price was fair.

    The VFW has 1400 amps of power. 200 amp service boxes are for rookies! hahaha. We're pretty good with power, no issues there.

    On the concrete floor we ground them with a rented grinder. We did that because there was carpet (as dayhuff said, carpet is sucky) to remove old glue. Then we stained the floor with an acid stain. That's a really cool look. You can do multiple colors too, which gives a molted look. After you're done you have to clear and wax it. The wax is important because you wear the wax. If you get through the wax, you'll start wearing the stained concrete, and can ruin its look. So it does require some maintenance. But it's easy to do, we can wax the entire VFW in about one hour.

    The Annex was an addition. New concrete floor, and it was acid stained. Since it was new we didn't have to grind it. You can calculate the game spacing and the required plugs. We ran 20 amp circuits in appropriate locations. For middle rows (no walls), we put plugs in the ceiling. Note we have 8 foot ceilings, as this is most effective in terms of heating and cooling. Ceiling plugs are nice and works well and is inexpensive. Putting plugs in concrete floors (even new floors) is expensive and permanent. Not a bad thing but if you change your mind on anything, you're screwed.

    Like Dayhuff said, we also have plugs at the top of all the walls. This way if you want to plug in a neon sign or clock, there's a plug. These are all on one wall switch. No other outlets are switched (other than lighting.)

    For us we like 30 foot wide buildings. This gives nice rows with a row of pins against each of two walls. And then a center two rows of back-to-back games. And 6 foot walking rows. This works really well.

    I have another 60 games at our house. We really downsized the house, going from 4000 sqft to 2000 sqft. It's a full sized, 9 foot ceiling walk out basement too. Which in my world is a requirement. Floor is again acid stained concrete. Ceiling is bare but painted black, no dry wall. This way you can modify and fix things without having to deal with ceiling dry wall or ceiling tiles. Walls are drywall. The wife likes the new house as most of the messy pinball stuff is at the VFW and not the house.

    As for lighting i prefer 4 foot florescents on a switch. This is good light for repairing things. For mood lighting i use border neon tubes. Note you can not use red neon (clear glass pumped neon.) The reflection is weird and incredibly bad. Nearly any other neon color is fine. Ruby red (which is a different red than neon red) works well. But nicest colors are gold #2, copper, purple, turquoise, and blue. Green neon is generally too bright, so don't use that color much. I get 8 foot straight neon tubes in my color choice for about $25 each. Of course you need silicone wire and switching transformers. The top mounted wall outlets work great for this too.

    everyone sez to build bigger. i say to build the right size. it costs money to build. then then taxes go up, so does heating/cooling and lighting. it adds up quick. Figure about $100 per square foot. If you're really cheap and do all the work yourself, maybe $50 per square foot. Note we don't do poll barns. I thinks they aren't really a savings after you consider the flooring and ceiling and insulation and heating/cooling and electric. Traditional 2x4 stick construction really isn't any more expensive than a poll barn in my mind, and is a better finished product. Though poll barns do go up quicker, and it's easier to build if you want really tall ceilings.

    #120 7 years ago

    It's 30 foot wide don't remember the length maybe 40 foot. Approximately six foot aisles.

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