(Topic ID: 120352)

Adding proper sounds to a rethemed pin.

By Hasty

9 years ago


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    #1 9 years ago

    Ok, I have a quesion, what would be the best platform to be able to add your own sound effects to a cheap-ish pin to be rethemed? This would be speech sound clips to be specific. I wouldn't care if other general sound was unchanged.

    I'm assuming an 80's era Williams "players machine" with a roached out playfield would be best (system 11 or older), but IDK. Can the speech roms from an older machine be replaced with something capable of replaying a sound clip of your own choice?

    I'm assuming that it wouldn't be too difficult to add a stand-alone soundboard that could be activated by specific switches on the playfield, but it would be more interesting to have the sound operate in a similar fashion to the original machine (aka it would be really annoying to have speech activated by a pop-bumper etc.) and preferably I wouldn't want any additional sound hardware installed at all.

    Any input would be appreciated.

    #2 9 years ago

    I'd like to know also bump

    #3 9 years ago

    I remember reading a blog about that relating to a Dolly Parton that was the donor for a Three Stooges machine. I'm pretty sure he did just that.

    There's photos in strange218's photo bucket still there. But his blog of how he did it is gone. You might be able to contact him via photo-bucket for a copy of his "How he did it".

    The more solid approach might be P-ROC.... some pretty sweet re-themes are being accomplished with that.

    Good luck!
    faz

    #4 9 years ago

    Older Williams SS games just used the solenoid transistors to trigger the sounds, grounding the soundboard input pins, just like they would trigger the solenoids.

    There were 5 transistors that could turn on singly or in combination, so you could have 32 different sounds triggered.

    So if you made a simple circuit to 'decode' those 5 switches into 32 discrete switches, you could then use 2 of these MP3 boards and install any sounds or speech you like, or even complete songs (as background music).

    Each MP3 board has 18 triggers, so you'd want 2 of 'em:

    https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11029

    #5 9 years ago

    Classic Bally had the ABCD and sometimes E data lines trigger the sound card in combinations.

    Again, a 'decoder' circuit could give you the proper output for one of those Sparkfun MP3 cards.

    #6 9 years ago

    Robertsonics, the company that invented the MP3 board has an account here on Pinside.

    Maybe we can get him to chime in on a suggested circuit .

    #7 9 years ago

    If you pick a System 11C machine, you can use the Pinsound board, which would allow you to totally re-theme the sounds to anything you could possibly want.

    RM

    #8 9 years ago

    MP3 trigger

    https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11029

    its how i did it on the Custom Evil Dead machine I made years ago. Link to the controller below.

    But I used this one from frightprops.com as it supports background music tracks as well
    And multiple tracks to each trigger. So each switch can have multiple sounds that can play in any order you set them to play in. ect. Can resume background music after sound plays so you only need one trigger.

    Ambient Resume - This option tells the BooTunes to resume the ambient sound at the point it was interrupted, rather than starting a new sound from the beginning. The # value specifies the fade rate in seconds to fade back into the sound.
    _FADINT# Fade on Interrupt - Cause the currently playing sound to fade out over # seconds, rather than end abruptly, if interrupted.
    _PREV
    _NEXT Next and Previous Track - Turns the input into a next or previous track control.
    _INT
    _SELFINT Interruptible Inputs - Sets the input to allow interrupts from other inputs or it's own input.
    _SLAVE Slave Mode - This option will set the BooTunes to act as a DMX slave to another BooTunes or BooBox.
    _DMX### DMX Slave - This option sets the BooTunes to a generic DMX mode, and sets the DMX channel to ###.

    http://www.frightprops.com/sound-audio/digital-audio-players-and-accessories/bootunes-mp3-player.html

    #9 9 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Older Williams SS games just used the solenoid transistors to trigger the sounds, grounding the soundboard input pins, just like they would trigger the solenoids.
    There were 5 transistors that could turn on singly or in combination, so you could have 32 different sounds triggered.
    So if you made a simple circuit to 'decode' those 5 switches into 32 discrete switches, you could then use 2 of these MP3 boards and install any sounds or speech you like, or even complete songs (as background music).
    Each MP3 board has 18 triggers, so you'd want 2 of 'em:
    https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11029

    A better alternative that's also available at sparkfun is the WAV trigger board. Its the same price as an MP3 trigger but its polyphonic so it can play multiple sounds simultaneously and is CD quality. This way you only need the one board instead of two to have background music play continuously and then sound effects or call outs play with the background music.

    https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12897

    If you drive the card via an arduino or rasberry pi you can control the board via the serial port and control which lets you have up to 1000 sounds instead of the 16 via the hardwired triggers. Using serial port control you can add randomization to the sounds. For example if the machine asks for sound #24 you could could program it to play a random sound between track #100 and #150. Thus you could 50 different sounds that could occur when a particular switch was hit.

    If you have a Gottlieb sys80b to re-theme interfacing the existing sound controls to a new micro controller has already been proven out:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-system-80b-raspberry-pi-soundboard-emulator

    I want to use a similar approach using an arduino for the sound board on a hollywood heat re-theme I'm thinking about. Once I get it working I'll share all the details of how to do it.

    #10 9 years ago

    Great, I think this should put me on the right track. I'm not too experience with programming, but I think the leads here should get me going. I really appreciate the help everyone.

    #11 9 years ago

    BTW, I'll bet the Evil Dead Machine was awesome. I'd have put the chainsaw-handed Bruce Campbell from Evil Dead 2 on the Translite lol.

    #12 9 years ago

    As docquest said above, the WAV Trigger is polyphonic, so you can mix up to 14 stereo tracks at a time. I will point out that the 16 trigger inputs can be individually programmed to do other things besides play dedicated tracks - such as playing either a sequence or random selection of tracks from a specified range - so the triggers do give you access to more than just 16 tracks. But docquest is correct that the serial control port allows you to do more sophisticated things, like volume control, cross-fades and even pitch-bending. Far more capability than the MP3 Trigger, but same size and same price.

    #13 9 years ago
    Quoted from robertsonics:

    As docquest said above, the WAV Trigger is polyphonic, so you can mix up to 14 stereo tracks at a time. I will point out that the 16 trigger inputs can be individually programmed to do other things besides play dedicated tracks - such as playing either a sequence or random selection of tracks from a specified range - so the triggers do give you access to more than just 16 tracks. But docquest is correct that the serial control port allows you to do more sophisticated things, like volume control, cross-fades and even pitch-bending. Far more capability than the MP3 Trigger, but same size and same price.

    Thank you for your input!

    Are you saying that there is a way to make the Williams 5 switch combination play more than 16 tracks?

    If the original game can play 32 sounds from the 5 switches in combination, I'd hate to only have 16 of the choices available.

    #14 9 years ago

    By default, each trigger is assigned to play the corresponding track: TRIG01 plays track 1, TRIG02 plays track 2, etc. But you can also reprogram each trigger to do one of several things. For example, a trigger can be assigned to the "Next" function, causing it to cycle through a specific range of track numbers, which can be any sequential group of tracks. The "Random" function causes the trigger to play a random track from within a specified range. You can even set the trigger to loop a track until you hit it again, and then loop the next (or previus or random) track in the range. So yes, you have access to a lot more than 16 tracks when using the triggers.

    It does not support combinational trigger logic however, other than what you can do by programming the individual trigger options. For complex control logic, I suggest implementing your own code on an Arduino and using the serial protocol to control the WAV Trigger. I've written an Arduino WAV Trigger Serial library to make this easy.

    I suggest that you download the free WAV Trigger Init File Maker app from my download page and have a look. That's the best way to see all of the programmable trigger options.

    http://robertsonics.com/wav-trigger-downloads/

    3 months later
    #15 9 years ago
    Quoted from RussMyers:

    If you pick a System 11C machine, you can use the Pinsound board, which would allow you to totally re-theme the sounds to anything you could possibly want.

    Has anyone gotten a pinsound board to work with a System 11C machine? The sounds on my Rollergames that I'm re-themeing aren't working. The main theme loops every four seconds and many of the other sounds don't work.

    #16 9 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Are you saying that there is a way to make the Williams 5 switch combination play more than 16 tracks?
    If the original game can play 32 sounds from the 5 switches in combination, I'd hate to only have 16 of the choices available.

    Quoted from robertsonics:

    For complex control logic, I suggest implementing your own code on an Arduino and using the serial protocol to control the WAV Trigger. I've written an Arduino WAV Trigger Serial library to make this easy.

    I am currently working with an Arduino/WAVtrigger combo for a re-theme of my own. Using an Arduino as an interface between the WAVtrigger and the signals your soundboard would've received is the way to go. If you look into the Ghostbuster and Goonies custom themed pins, they both used two MP3trigger cards and had to add a second leaf switch to every actuator under the playfield and wire them directly to the cards. Tedious, lots of extra wiring, required extra audio amplification, extra power supply.. With the Arduino/WAVtrigger combo there is the possibility of powering it with the existing 5v power from the machine and the ability to send the audio back along the original route in the machine to its own amplifier and speakers, also the WAV has its own onboard audio amp.

    Using the serial protocol, you can even have each of the 32 sounds be a random sound from a select set (e.g. sound 1 = tracks 17 - 20, sound 2 = tracks 21 - 30). The machine I'm working on originally had three different BG songs which would change every ball and every time you restart multiball. With this new setup, I will be able to have the BG music be randomly selected from three banks of songs.
    Also, I haven't gotten this far yet, but I believe you can use the serial protocol AND the 16 trigger inputs, giving you the ability to use the Arduino to run the commands for all the original sound actions and then you can add up to 16 extra switches for sound-only functions (e.g. though it might get annoying, you could add a sound to the flipper switch).

    #17 9 years ago

    I would LOVE to know how to do this to a data east game. I want to possibly retheme one of my lethal weapons to Duke Nukem.

    #18 9 years ago
    Quoted from Hawk007:

    I would LOVE to know how to do this to a data east game. I want to possibly retheme one of my lethal weapons to Duke Nukem.

    Jon St.John does all sorts of small and big time voice acting projects.

    It would be great to have him do some custom callouts for the game.

    #19 9 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Jon St.John does all sorts of small and big time voice acting projects.
    It would be great to have him do some custom callouts for the game.

    THAT WOULD BE AMAZING! Jon St.John is awesome. "Hail to the king baby!" I am so in. I really want to make this happen. Might be time to start a thread dedicated to this project. Looks like there is going to be one less LW3 in the world.

    #20 9 years ago
    Quoted from Hawk007:

    Jon St.John is awesome.

    Jon_St._John_licks_a_fan.jpgJon_St._John_licks_a_fan.jpg
    #21 9 years ago

    Jon usually works from his home studio.

    Google some of his prank phone calls.

    #22 9 years ago

    Vid ...Thats wicked! Love the photo. Gonna have to reach out to him and see if he's in.

    #23 9 years ago
    Quoted from Hawk007:

    I would LOVE to know how to do this to a data east game. I want to possibly retheme one of my lethal weapons to Duke Nukem.

    The pinsound board works with LW3. It very easy to make custom sounds for each and every existing sound. Plus you have the ability to add multiple sounds to any one event. For example, every time you hit a pop bumper it currently plays the same sound all of the time. With the pinsound board you can have a whole folder of sounds associated with the pop bumper so when its hit the pop bumper it will randomly play one of the sounds in the folder. If you want to bias the randomness to play one sound more than another you can just make more copies of it in the folder. Any advantage with DE games is it already has native stereo support and the audio processing on the pinsound board is excellent.

    #24 9 years ago

    Awesome! I need a pinsound board. How is the background music on the pinsound? Just as easy to add etc? How do you program it ? Does it come with software? Guess I have some googling to do. lol

    #25 9 years ago
    Quoted from Hawk007:

    Awesome! I need a pinsound board. How is the background music on the pinsound? Just as easy to add etc? How do you program it ? Does it come with software? Guess I have some googling to do. lol

    www.pinsound.org has your answers.

    Basically they have already gone through the trouble of making a set of directories with folders in them containing the default sounds for each supported game (including LW3). The folders are named music, spfx, jingles, and voice. All the current default sounds for your game are there and given names that "mostly" describe what they are (like main game music, multiball start, enter initials, etc). However the guys are french so some of the names might not translate well but you can figure it out. If you the leave sounds as is you just load them on a USB drive, plug it into the board, and you're ready to go. If you want to replace the sounds you just put new WAV file(s) in place of the default ones. For some games people have already made custom sound mixes and put them online to share with the community.

    #26 9 years ago

    Thanks man! Now I need some custom dots and a custom rule set, and an art package. So much to do! Would love to add a shaker to the game as well.

    #27 9 years ago
    Quoted from Hawk007:

    Thanks man! Now I need some custom dots and a custom rule set, and an art package. So much to do! Would love to add a shaker to the game as well.

    With an upcoming FW update, the pinsound board will allow you to associate any particular sound to activate a shaker control signal . For each sound you can specify intensity and duration of shake.

    New rules, art, and dots would a much bigger challenge compared to changing the sounds.

    #28 9 years ago

    Has anyone had any luck getting a pinsound board to work with a system 11c game?

    1 year later
    #29 7 years ago

    A resurrection here.

    I'm wanting to add sounds and later completely replace the sound for a system 11a Millionaire machine. I'm in the preparation phase and have a few questions:

    1. Can I hook an arduino/wav trigger setup directly to the soundboard/amp in the game so that I run the sounds in conjunction with the current game sounds? I'm a little confused about how to start the decoding process or if that is the correct approach.

    2. Do I need to create an interface board like the Gottlieb project cited in this thread?

    3. I already have an arduino uno, so do I just need the wav trigger board and no other boards/hardware? I'm going to get the newer Tsunami Board from sparkfun: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13810

    I have quite a bit of programming experience, so I'm pretty confident that I can figure out programming the music etc. My main concern is running the sound to the amp and speakers.

    Any help would be much appreciated. I'll start a new thread for the progress of my project after I get going.

    Cheers,

    Lance

    #30 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinball_faz:

    I remember reading a blog about that relating to a Dolly Parton that was the donor for a Three Stooges machine. I'm pretty sure he did just that.
    There's photos in strange218's photo bucket still there. But his blog of how he did it is gone. You might be able to contact him via photo-bucket for a copy of his "How he did it".

    I just noticed this post. When I did my 3 Stooges re-theme, I had custom sounds using a "chipcorder" and relays connected to the leaf switches on the playfield. I don't recommend going this route as there are much better alternatives. I've attached a schematic on how I did my implementation.

    Sound Schematic (resized).JPGSound Schematic (resized).JPG

    1 week later
    #31 7 years ago

    Cool! Thanks for the schematic. I'm thinking I might go the easy route that the ghostbusters guy did and just double up some switches. I'm only going to add probably 5 triggered effect zones, so trying to go through the board sounds to be like a lot more work than its worth.

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