Quoted from Shredder565:when you want to not feel discouraged and temporarily hook up the next step . at least the boards work
Pretty flashing lights!
(Topic ID: 257696)
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OK, the electricians actually helped make progress for once 
.
We got number 33 working. We got 71, 72,73,74 working. we got 17 and 15 working. That just leaves 5 switches left. they understood the electrical jargon better than I did. But, I'm happy there is progress. Desoldering and resoldering first.
Hoping for a miracle with the last 5. and then the long process of figuring out the lights!
BTW, the solder sucker worked AMAZINGLY well for $5's, or whatever it was. Now if I feel I need to redo something, I can keep it, so long as I don't burn through the switch plastic without noticing while trying to get the solder.
Quoted from Shredder565:BTW, the solder sucker worked AMAZINGLY well for $5's, or whatever it was. Now if I feel I need to redo something, I can keep it, so long as I don't burn through the switch plastic without noticing while trying to get the solder.
You're welcome!
Quoted from Shredder565:-keep in mind, I am color blind.
So I'd like to apologize but it wasn't obvious and I guess if I did read it or you posted in this thread then I forgot about it. It is highly possible that I might again forget this fact so my apologies in advance if that happens. Gently point it out. It's not malicious. More senility and a "senior moment".
You can work around the color aspects by using numeric coding. Instead of relying on colors for the traces like everyone else use the numeric code. Tag the GRN and WHT wire bundle as "switch". If it's a bunch of WHT wires then for each of the color stripes use:
- BRN
- RED
- ORG
- YEL
- GRN
- BLU
- VIO
- GRY
Do the same labeling for a bunch of GRN wires except substitute BLK for GRN for the stripe.
Quoted from Shredder565:That just leaves 5 switches left.
Which switches remain? If you post an annotated image of the switch matrix highlighting which ones do NOT work you or someone else may see an obvious pattern.
Quoted from Shredder565:the lights still look confusing, and I will never understand more complicated diagrams.
Quoted from Shredder565:and then the long process of figuring out the lights!
The lamps operate under the exact same principle of operation as the switches except the current flows from the power board out the YEL-XXX wires through the lamp and diode to the RED-XXX wires and back to the power board.
The lamps are typically easier than the switches because Williams used those lamp boards. All you need to know is which wire color goes to which pin of the connector. You can figure out which color it is by:
- looking at the lamp
- referencing the YEL-XXX and RED-XXX
- follow the traces on the lamp PCB to the header
- inserting the appropriate wire color into the connector
Williams often used a single lamp column (YEL-XXX) or sometimes two lamp columns and differentiated each lamp through the row (RED-XXX). The connector wire colors to pin positions is NOT documented so you will have to do the above procedure to figure it out. Once you've figured out which wires go where and have created the connector it should work just fine. In some respects this is easier because often the lamp column is daisy chained on the lamp PCB so you don't have to solder multiple wires to a lug to keep the daisy chain going.
When testing the lamps do exactly the same as the switches. Use SINGLE lamp test and verify each one according to the lamp location map in the manual.
new annoyance. --
found the problem. ok, taking a new tactic. Maybe I am making these wires too long and they need to be shorter to work. will give that a try.
update - seems to work better. 33 soldered on and working.
Quoted from Shredder565:Maybe I am making these wires too long and they need to be shorter to work
Are you talking about the stripped ends of the wire? Or the total length of the wire?
The total length of wires dont need to be shorter to work, thats just silly. Too long of a stripped end can make them harder to solder on and increase the potential of shorted connections. The stripped end should be about 3/8" or a bit less to make it effective. Trim off any excess after the connection is made with a flush nipper/cutter:
However, bad/cold/cracked solder joints and loose crimps will certainly affect the performance of a switch connection.
Often you read about how "re-heating" a solder joint fixes the connection.
Re-flowing a joint after its made can make it a much more positive connection.
Put a little flux on the joint with a q-tip when reheating a connection and keep the soldering iron tip clean with a little solder on it.
Clean the tip while hot often with a copper scrubber:
You can make one with a cat food can and a grocery store copper scrubber.
Quoted from pinballinreno:The wires dont need to be shorter to work, thats just silly.
However, bad/cold/cracked solder joints and loose crimps will certainly affect the performance of a switch connection.
Often you read about how "re-heating" a solder joint fixes the connection.
Re-flowing a joint after its made can make it a much more positive connection.
I'll give it a try. they work sometimes, and then other times not...
Quoted from Shredder565:I'll give it a try. they work sometimes, and then other times not...
Read my edit above.
Show me a picture of your soldering iron and soldering tip to see if it matches what I use.
Temperature selection can make a huge difference in the ease of soldering.
Too high burns everything up and causes flux to burn, and fail the connection. Too low-you get cold joints.
Its not an exact thing, but I adjust the temp based on how fast I work (and I take my time) and set accordingly.
If it takes too long to heat up a joint, I turn it up a little at a time until I'm comfortable.
The tips also affect the work.
For general work I use a 1/8" chisel tip. For PC boards, I use a sharp pointed tip.
If wires and things are in your way, tape then out of the way with a little masking tape to keep then from getting scarred up with the hot iron.
Remember, its not a race (take your time and be comfortable) and the quality of each joint is important.
In all cases the solder should look kinda shiny and smooth when cooled. If the joint very dull and rough looking , you moved it while it was hot and caused what's called a "cold joint".
Clean off excess/black or brown flux with a little rubbing alcohol on a piece of paper towel.
here's a dumb question. soldered together, 74 now works. The other three, upper, lower, center, do not.
The only thing different about them is that the top one has two green wires. do I need two wires on each of the extensions instead of one?
307635967_10159842257970211_3188115156650008641_n (resized).jpgQuoted from Shredder565:here's a dumb question. soldered together, 74 now works. The other three, upper, lower, center, do not.
The only thing different about them is that the top one has two green wires. do I need two wires on each of the extensions instead of one?[quoted image]
Are they chained?
What does the schematic say?
There are probably pictures in HEP's achive.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Are they chained?
What does the schematic say?
There are probably pictures in HEP's achive.
There is only one green wire for that set of switches, so I assumed they where chained like the 47, 48 targets above them where.
in this photo, kickout is the main, that goes to the upper, that goes to the center and then the lower.
Quoted from Shredder565:they work sometimes, and then other times not...
Might just be cold joints.
Quoted from Shredder565:There is only one green wire for that set of switches, so I assumed they where chained like the 47, 48 targets above them where.
in this photo, kickout is the main, that goes to the upper, that goes to the center and then the lower.
Geneally the power side is chained but the returns are separate so the computer can keep them sorted.
The matrix chart has the wire colors.
Quoted from Shredder565:also, didn't want to forget this again. old rusty. had it for about 5 years now. time for a new one?[quoted image]
I think a fresh tip would be in order after 5 years.
It looks a bit dirty.
But that can be cleaned up a bit with a copper scrubber pad while its hot.
Your solder station is like the one i use in my tool bag.
I set it at about 4, maybe a little higher or lower depending on what im working on.
Quoted from pinballinreno:I think a fresh tip would be in order after 5 years.
It looks a bit dirty.
But that can be cleaned up a bit with a copper scrubber pad while its hot.
Your solder station is like the one i use in my tool bag.
I set it at about 4, maybe a little higher or lower.
are they easy to change out?
Again, my understanding o f electronic wiring is limited, but I Thought the white one was the power/hot side. and there is 4 hot wires for all four of 'em. just only one green wire for all four of them.
Quoted from Shredder565:are they easy to change out?
The set screw near the tip can be loosened and the tip comes out with a bit if wiggling.
Someone there might have a spare.
Quoted from Shredder565:Thought the white one was the power/hot side. and there is 4 hot wires for all four of 'em. just only one green wire for all four of them.
I think you have it backwards in your mind.
You dont have to guess.
The white wires have colors on them too. They are likely the returns if they are separate.
The switch matrix chart has the wire colors listed for you.
The manual has the location chart.
You can chain the hot wires but the returns must be separate and go to specific pins on the CPU board.
The switch matrix chart shows this in the rows and columns.
The dedicated switches are ones separate from the matrix. They also have the wire colors.
Quoted from Shredder565:I mean,
this says each one has a green wire going too it.
what I'm wondering is if j-206 7 and U20-12 need two separate wires on each one to work and you can't carry the flow with just one . assuming that's the serial label of each green wire.
[quoted image]
A single wire will carry plenty of electricity. You dont need to double them up.
The green/brown wire can be chained.
The white/color wires go the the pins on the CPU board.
The J denotes a physical pin location in the harness connector at the backbox CPU board.
The U denotes the leg of the IC on the board, its not a label or a serial number. Its a real location.
The pins on the connectors go to those specific legs of the IC chips.
This is important only when troubleshooting a bad pin or trace on the circuit board. Dont let it confuse you.
Worry only about the J pin locations for this job.
Quoted from Shredder565:I mean,
this says each one has a green wire going too it.
what I'm wondering is if j-206 7 and U20-12 need two separate wires on each one to work and you can't carry the flow with just one . assuming that's the serial label of each green wire.
[quoted image]
If in doubt that a connection is solid, use tbe ohm meter to verify that its good.
The meter will show that connections can come and go if you wiggle the wire in a cold joint.
Reheat connections that are cold joints.
Its easy to solder a wire and still have it not connected. All it takes is to move it before the solder has set.
Wiggle it, no part should move in the solder blob.
I'll do that next. but another thing I found interesting. THIS connection that I thought didn't work before, actually DOES work, but for the wrong Sector.
THIS one should be either 65 or 38, flipped over on the back, it's on the upper right across from thing. BUT, it doesn't work for those. however, it DOES work for 41, G for grave. I tried G and THAT works with the proper wires.
not sure if that could mess something up or not.
IMG_0097 (resized).JPGwe tested swamp lower upper center and they work with the ohm meter, and they work when pressed that way, so now we are going to try the hot solder fix. I had it set at 3 before. maybe that was too low.
Quoted from Shredder565:we tested swamp lower upper center and they work with the ohm meter, and they work when pressed that way, so now we are going to try the hot solder fix. I had it set at 3 before. maybe that was too low.
3 is loo low. Try 4.2
I think a lot of your trouble is cold joints.
Quoted from Shredder565:I'll do that next. but another thing I found interesting. THIS connection that I thought didn't work before, actually DOES work, but for the wrong Sector.
THIS one should be either 65 or 38, flipped over on the back, it's on the upper right across from thing. BUT, it doesn't work for those. however, it DOES work for 41, G for grave. I tried G and THAT works with the proper wires.
not sure if that could mess something up or not.
[quoted image]
I imagine its wired wrong.
Quoted from Shredder565:THIS one should be either 65 or 38
Are the wire colors correct?
Are wires shorted somewhere?
somethings wrong somewhere. After we did the ohm test, and tried to hot solder the swamp wires...now 38 works. And no longer corresponds to the G target.
So, now Everything above the jet bumpers works. Millions work.
It's now just 75, 78, 76, (the lower, upper, center swamp only work with ohm testing) and I still have yet to test 27, 15, 16, 17, 18. will leave that for monday.
sorry for all the confusion, but this is confusing me too .
final update and calling it a night. soldered up 27 and now that works perfectly. NOW, oddly, LOWER swamp ALSO works. Center and upper still do not. so it has to be a solder issue, I would think. Once I make sure which one is center left and right trough and how those are wired, I will firm up those next.
Somehow, we are stumbling through this closer to light work.
Quoted from DumbAss:So I'd like to apologize but it wasn't obvious and I guess if I did read it or you posted in this thread then I forgot about it. It is highly possible that I might again forget this fact so my apologies in advance if that happens. Gently point it out. It's not malicious. More senility and a "senior moment".
I tried to be . I know I post stuff multiple times that gets ignored for one reason or another.
So I know there is a chance it could be missed or forgotten about with real life in the way
I don't know. figuring out the switches, once I knew how to do ONE, the rest where rather easy when I Got into it. It's just this darn trouble shooting that's a lot tougher, because I do not have an electronics degree . I ALWAYS knew that wiring the thing would be the hardest part of the project, and it's not living down it's rep .
Although I can see why you want to target the switches first. probably tougher to trouble shoot AND tinier to work with. The solenoids are mostly raised above everything else, and the lights are just one thing.
Again, thanks for putting up with the constant, no doubt annoying questions. I couldn't have gotten this far without everyone's patience.
And I hope once I get the bottom squared away, I can put the playfield in and work on the top INSIDE the machine and make it seem like it's playable at least .
Ok. I spent far too much time on this so I hope it resolves all your remaining switch issues.
Apologies again, in advance, as I have used color. It is almost impossible to highlight without color. Using color also makes it easier for others following along to get a better understanding.
Here is the switch matrix chart broken down by "groups".
- You can safely ignore the cabinet switches for now. Switch 24 is on the coin door interface board.
- You can test the 7-opto switches by shorting the collector and emitter pins on the 7-opto board. See https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#7_Opto_Board_Testing for more information.
- You can ignore switch 58 for the moment.
- You can ignore switch 81-82 and switch 84-85 for the moment. These are slotted optos on small boards associated with the bookcase motor and Thing motor.
- For switch 15-17 - see below.
- For switch 71-74 - see below.
- For switch 75-76,78 - see below.
I annotated this image before I went searching for images that you had previously posted. If you have more up-to-date images that can help verify your current state as the images I used from this thread but from several pages ago.
The switch location diagram shows where the switches are located.
Let's start with the ball trough switches.
It looks like you have used the crimped GRN-RED wire. This wire belongs on the SW27 (Ball Shooter). Find a GRN-BRN wire and solder it onto the C terminal of any of switches 15, 16 or 17. Then use (green) wires to daisy chain (wire in parallel) to the other C terminals of the ball trough. Williams used YEL wires to accomplish this task. Then verify that you have the correct wires with correct colors as annotated. It looks like you are using 3 terminal switches for switch 15 and 16. Find the NC terminal and attach the non-banded end of the diode with the WHT-XXX wire. The banded end of the diode should be attached to the C terminal. The GRN-BRN (or YEL) wire should be attached to the NO terminal. DO NOT TRUST THE TERMINALS THAT I HAVE ANNOTATED. I cannot see which terminal is what. You will need to check on the actual switch.
Now to the swamp assembly.
03_taf_swamp_assembly_unwired.jpg
This shows which switch is what and the wire color. The GRN wire is GRN-VIO.
Here is what I see you have wired.
04_taf_swamp_assembly_wired.jpg
Couple of things to note.
- It looks like you have wired the WHT-RED and WHT-ORG incorrectly.
- It looks like you have a VIO-YEL wire as the daisy chain wire for GRN-VIO. This is a really bad choice of color. The VIO-YEL wire is a solenoid power wire (albeit it is 18AWG and not 22AWG). The 22AWG VIO-YEL wire is a drive wire for solenoid #4. Use a 22AWG GRN or YEL wire.
- You may have connected the wires from the harness directly to the swamp assembly switches. I can't tell for sure. This is something you should not do. It makes the swamp assembly more difficult to remove and service.
05_taf_swamp_assembly_connector.jpg
Use the 0.062" Molex housings to allow for an easy connect and disconnect. The harness should be female pins. The assembly should be male pins. The order of the wires is shown. The GRN-VIO wire is one either side of the WHT-XXX wires. The housing is keyed so take care when inserting the pins into the housing so that it matches the order. You can correct errors with a pin extraction tool if need be.
Finally ... the left return and out lanes.
I think you may need to find other associated GRN-VIO wires. There should be THREE of the 0.110" quick connects. They may all be double wires or two of them are doubles and one of them is a single.
If in doubt and you need some more assistance post images of the wiring in the area. Try to keep the focus on the wires and make sure that it is well illuminated or use multiple angles to allow a better 3D visualization.
Quoted from DumbAss:Ok. I spent far too much time on this so I hope it resolves all your remaining switch issues.
Apologies again, in advance, as I have used color. It is almost impossible to highlight without color. Using color also makes it easier for others following along to get a better understanding.
Here is the switch matrix chart broken down by "groups".
[quoted image]You can safely ignore the cabinet switches for now. Switch 24 is on the coin door interface board.
You can test the 7-opto switches by shorting the collector and emitter pins on the 7-opto board. See https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#7_Opto_Board_Testing for more information.
You can ignore switch 58 for the moment.
You can ignore switch 81-82 and switch 84-85 for the moment. These are slotted optos on small boards associated with the bookcase motor and Thing motor.
For switch 15-17 - see below.
For switch 71-74 - see below.
For switch 75-76,78 - see below.I annotated this image before I went searching for images that you had previously posted. If you have more up-to-date images that can help verify your current state as the images I used from this thread but from several pages ago.
The switch location diagram shows where the switches are located.
[quoted image]
Let's start with the ball trough switches.
[quoted image]
It looks like you have used the crimped GRN-RED wire. This wire belongs on the SW27 (Ball Shooter). Find a GRN-BRN wire and solder it onto the C terminal of any of switches 15, 16 or 17. Then use (green) wires to daisy chain (wire in parallel) to the other C terminals of the ball trough. Williams used YEL wires to accomplish this task. Then verify that you have the correct wires with correct colors as annotated. It looks like you are using 3 terminal switches for switch 15 and 16. Find the NC terminal and attach the non-banded end of the diode with the WHT-XXX wire. The banded end of the diode should be attached to the C terminal. The GRN-BRN (or YEL) wire should be attached to the NO terminal. DO NOT TRUST THE TERMINALS THAT I HAVE ANNOTATED. I cannot see which terminal is what. You will need to check on the actual switch.
Now to the swamp assembly.
[quoted image]
This shows which switch is what and the wire color. The GRN wire is GRN-VIO.
Here is what I see you have wired.
[quoted image]
Couple of things to note.It looks like you have wired the WHT-RED and WHT-ORG incorrectly.
It looks like you have a VIO-YEL wire as the daisy chain wire for GRN-VIO. This is a really bad choice of color. The VIO-YEL wire is a solenoid power wire (albeit it is 18AWG and not 22AWG). The 22AWG VIO-YEL wire is a drive wire for solenoid #4. Use a 22AWG GRN or YEL wire.
You may have connected the wires from the harness directly to the swamp assembly switches. I can't tell for sure. This is something you should not do. It makes the swamp assembly more difficult to remove and service.[quoted image]
Use the 0.062" Molex housings to allow for an easy connect and disconnect. The harness should be female pins. The assembly should be male pins. The order of the wires is shown. The GRN-VIO wire is one either side of the WHT-XXX wires. The housing is keyed so take care when inserting the pins into the housing so that it matches the order. You can correct errors with a pin extraction tool if need be.
Finally ... the left return and out lanes.
[quoted image]
I think you may need to find other associated GRN-VIO wires. There should be THREE of the 0.110" quick connects. They may all be double wires or two of them are doubles and one of them is a single.
If in doubt and you need some more assistance post images of the wiring in the area. Try to keep the focus on the wires and make sure that it is well illuminated or use multiple angles to allow a better 3D visualization.
I vote this the most helpful post on pinside lol ++++ for effort 
Quoted from DumbAss:Ok. I spent far too much time on this so I hope it resolves all your remaining switch issues.
I hope so too . easy to follow and very understandable.
With the Swamp violet wire. It was the only one I had that looked close to the original harness size. I did a forum search, and just ordered a spool of 22 gauge white, green wire for my extensions. AND I ordered a molex, crimp kit from amazon that hopefully has the proper inserts for those connectors. Now that I know what size I need to use, I should be able to do it the right way this time.
This poor wire harness will be going through alot .
THAT helps with the trough switches. Yes, I did notice that with the BallShooter, switched it over, wired THAT up, and Ball Shooter works perfectly.
Now that I know what's what on the Trough switches, I can take those on after I Get the swamp fully working. I trust the metal pin connected to the diode wire gets grounded with a screw through it? That's what I did now, but wanted to make sure.
If I can get those working properly with the new wire and crimps. I will move on to the last troublsesome ones, 75, 76, 78.
I REALLY want to move on to the lights .
thanks again
Quoted from Shredder565:With the Swamp violet wire. It was the only one I had that looked close to the original harness size. I did a forum search, and just ordered a spool of 22 gauge white, green wire for my extensions.
Williams used a simple YEL wire whenever daisy chaining between groups of related GI lamps, switches (columns = GRN-XXX) and controlled lamps (columns = YEL-XXX). I, generally, like to use wires of the same base color when building wire bundles.
Quoted from Shredder565:I trust the metal pin connected to the diode wire gets grounded with a screw through it? That's what I did now, but wanted to make sure.
The soldering tab where you have connected a diode is just that - a soldering tab. It is used as a point to connect the diode and the WHT-XXX wire. It is NOT grounded. The switch matrix is "grounded" through the columns (GRN-XXX) wires. The grounding is controlled by the software when it scans the state of the switches in the matrix.
Quoted from Shredder565:I REALLY want to move on to the lights .
My honest advice to you is to SLOW DOWN. It's all very fine and dandy to see pretty lights and solenoid converting electrical energy to mechanical energy through a magnetic field ... but in my experience a lot of this stuff is 90% preparation and verification and 10% testing and fixing. If you skip the preparation and verification you will tip the balance to 10% preparation and verification and 90% testing and fixing. With the emphasis on FIXING. It will take you twice as long to fix your mistakes than if you had verified before trying. Remember ... with electricity damage is done faster than microseconds. The human nervous system is only capable of reacting in milliseconds - at best.
Quoted from DumbAss:Williams used a simple YEL wire whenever daisy chaining between groups of related GI lamps, switches (columns = GRN-XXX) and controlled lamps (columns = YEL-XXX). I, generally, like to use wires of the same base color when building wire bundles.
The soldering tab where you have connected a diode is just that - a soldering tab. It is used as a point to connect the diode and the WHT-XXX wire. It is NOT grounded. The switch matrix is "grounded" through the columns (GRN-XXX) wires. The grounding is controlled by the software when it scans the state of the switches in the matrix.
My honest advice to you is to SLOW DOWN. It's all very fine and dandy to see pretty lights and solenoid converting electrical energy to mechanical energy through a magnetic field ... but in my experience a lot of this stuff is 90% preparation and verification and 10% testing and fixing. If you skip the preparation and verification you will tip the balance to 10% preparation and verification and 90% testing and fixing. With the emphasis on FIXING. It will take you twice as long to fix your mistakes than if you had verified before trying. Remember ... with electricity damage is done faster than microseconds. The human nervous system is only capable of reacting in milliseconds - at best.
Didn't think to get yellow, I was focusing on the switches when I ordered.
Weird, how come that one is the only one that does it that way? If the hole in the metal tab connection is filled, you'd have to hold both that and the wire
to get it done right. seems like an extra step.
I'm trying to. It just gets frustrating when you try a half a dozen things and things like 75,76 and 78 still don't wanna work. the instinct is to move on to something that might be easier and more rewarding. Every time I get a new one to work, I do keep on testing the old working ones to make sure they are still operational, and so far so good.
First step when the wires arrive is to get the molex suckers crimped right. then solder the swamp. hope that works, then move onto the trough. if that works, then hope against hope on the 70's trio.
Quoted from DumbAss:Ok. I spent far too much time on this so I hope it resolves all your remaining switch issues.
Apologies again, in advance, as I have used color. It is almost impossible to highlight without color. Using color also makes it easier for others following along to get a better understanding.
Here is the switch matrix chart broken down by "groups".
[quoted image]You can safely ignore the cabinet switches for now. Switch 24 is on the coin door interface board.
You can test the 7-opto switches by shorting the collector and emitter pins on the 7-opto board. See https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#7_Opto_Board_Testing for more information.
You can ignore switch 58 for the moment.
You can ignore switch 81-82 and switch 84-85 for the moment. These are slotted optos on small boards associated with the bookcase motor and Thing motor.
For switch 15-17 - see below.
For switch 71-74 - see below.
For switch 75-76,78 - see below.I annotated this image before I went searching for images that you had previously posted. If you have more up-to-date images that can help verify your current state as the images I used from this thread but from several pages ago.
The switch location diagram shows where the switches are located.
[quoted image]
Let's start with the ball trough switches.
[quoted image]
It looks like you have used the crimped GRN-RED wire. This wire belongs on the SW27 (Ball Shooter). Find a GRN-BRN wire and solder it onto the C terminal of any of switches 15, 16 or 17. Then use (green) wires to daisy chain (wire in parallel) to the other C terminals of the ball trough. Williams used YEL wires to accomplish this task. Then verify that you have the correct wires with correct colors as annotated. It looks like you are using 3 terminal switches for switch 15 and 16. Find the NC terminal and attach the non-banded end of the diode with the WHT-XXX wire. The banded end of the diode should be attached to the C terminal. The GRN-BRN (or YEL) wire should be attached to the NO terminal. DO NOT TRUST THE TERMINALS THAT I HAVE ANNOTATED. I cannot see which terminal is what. You will need to check on the actual switch.
Now to the swamp assembly.
[quoted image]
This shows which switch is what and the wire color. The GRN wire is GRN-VIO.
Here is what I see you have wired.
[quoted image]
Couple of things to note.It looks like you have wired the WHT-RED and WHT-ORG incorrectly.
It looks like you have a VIO-YEL wire as the daisy chain wire for GRN-VIO. This is a really bad choice of color. The VIO-YEL wire is a solenoid power wire (albeit it is 18AWG and not 22AWG). The 22AWG VIO-YEL wire is a drive wire for solenoid #4. Use a 22AWG GRN or YEL wire.
You may have connected the wires from the harness directly to the swamp assembly switches. I can't tell for sure. This is something you should not do. It makes the swamp assembly more difficult to remove and service.[quoted image]
Use the 0.062" Molex housings to allow for an easy connect and disconnect. The harness should be female pins. The assembly should be male pins. The order of the wires is shown. The GRN-VIO wire is one either side of the WHT-XXX wires. The housing is keyed so take care when inserting the pins into the housing so that it matches the order. You can correct errors with a pin extraction tool if need be.
Finally ... the left return and out lanes.
[quoted image]
I think you may need to find other associated GRN-VIO wires. There should be THREE of the 0.110" quick connects. They may all be double wires or two of them are doubles and one of them is a single.
If in doubt and you need some more assistance post images of the wiring in the area. Try to keep the focus on the wires and make sure that it is well illuminated or use multiple angles to allow a better 3D visualization.
PINSIDER of the MONTH!
You rock - way to help others.
Quoted from Shredder565:Weird, how come that one is the only one that does it that way? If the hole in the metal tab connection is filled, you'd have to hold both that and the wire to get it done right. seems like an extra step.
The reason for the solder tab is because the original microswitches used were SPST microswitches. These only have a C and NO terminal.
00_taf_microswitch_5647-09957-00.jpg
You have a SPDT microswitch.
01_taf_microswitch_180-5009-00.jpg
On top of the C and NO terminals, this also has the NC terminal. The NC terminal is used as a solder tab for the blocking diode required for the switch matrix. Without the NC terminal another terminal has to be "created". This is done with the solder tab.
02_taf_solderlug_5825-09372-00.jpg
Quoted from Shredder565:It just gets frustrating when you try a half a dozen things and things like 75,76 and 78 still don't wanna work.
Please don't take this the wrong way ... but you really should not "try half a dozen things". You should study what you need to do and get a better understanding of what you need to accomplish. If you keep guessing you will keep missing and you will keep getting frustrated. For this kind of wiring there is really only one way to wire it correctly. There are a whole lot more ways to wire it incorrectly.
Quoted from DumbAss:The reason for the solder tab is because the original microswitches used were SPST microswitches. These only have a C and NO terminal.
[quoted image]
You have a SPDT microswitch.
[quoted image]
On top of the C and NO terminals, this also has the NC terminal. The NC terminal is used as a solder tab for the blocking diode required for the switch matrix. Without the NC terminal another terminal has to be "created". This is done with the solder tab.
[quoted image]Please don't take this the wrong way ... but you really should not "try half a dozen things". You should study what you need to do and get a better understanding of what you need to accomplish. If you keep guessing you will keep missing and you will keep getting frustrated. For this kind of wiring there is really only one way to wire it correctly. There are a whole lot more ways to wire it incorrectly.
that would match with the Thing Eject Hole switch that I got, with the extra metal tab included on a sort of board attachment. OK. that makes sense.
I'm trying to slow down. And ask questions when I'm not sure. But I also don't want to ask too many annoying questions to things that are more obvious to folks here. trying not to annoy everyone so close to finish..
.
at the very least,i'll have to take a few days break now, waiting for my new 22 green and white wire to arrive.
I do sometimes feel like this thing has a gremlin in it sometimes.
I soldered some of the pop bumpers a bit more, trying for a hot solder connection. and now, ALL The swamp switches work as is. IF that holds, everything on the left and top side works. The Pop Bumps still need some fine tuning, and 74, 75, 78 still need to work out. But since 16 and 17 are grey/white wires also, maybe if I hook those up, the others will work.
Wires arrives Friday, Correct size crimps arrive thursday. maybe I can get the molexes back in working order and then wire it all up and hope it all works then.
Day 3 of waiting, more fine tuning. All the Jet Bumpers work again, disconnected from switches.. And with that, EVERY switch works except for 16, 78 and 75. For whatever reason, can not get those to work. The last ditch effort is to disconnect all, de solder, see if they work with everything off and out. go one by one with the non working ones first, and then re hook everything else up, testing all of them as I go along to make sure everything else is still working.
Quoted from Shredder565:Day 3 of waiting, more fine tuning. All the Jet Bumpers work again, disconnected from switches.. And with that, EVERY switch works except for 16, 78 and 75. For whatever reason, can not get those to work. The last ditch effort is to disconnect all, de solder, see if they work with everything off and out. go one by one with the non working ones first, and then re hook everything else up, testing all of them as I go along to make sure everything else is still working.
You shouldn't need to disconnect everything. That's a lot of work for not a lot of gain. Follow the corresponding wire colors in the daisy chain and look for potential breaks or poor joints. You can verify there is a problem in continuity by checking at the point with the wire at J206/J207/J208/J209.
For 16, 75 and 78 you should check the wires colors match the previous post that I spent too much time on. It shows you exactly which colored wires need to go where. If you followed that and you still have problems then you have a problem that is located elsewhere. You also need to define "can not get those to work". Does this mean that the switches do not register in switch edges or does this mean that another switch registers in switch edges or does this mean that more than one switch registers in switch edges (when only one should register)? The more information you provide on what you observe the better the response is likely to be.
If you're in doubt post an image of what your current wiring is. All your previous images are rendered obsolete due to the constant changes to the wiring you are making.
Quoted from DumbAss:check the wires colors match the previous post that I spent too much time on. It shows you exactly which colored wires need to go where. If you followed that and you still have problems then you have a problem that is located elsewhere. You also need to define "can not get those to work". Does this mean that the switches do not register in switch edges or does this mean that another switch registers in switch edges or does this mean that more than one switch registers in switch edges (when only one should register)? The more information you provide on what you observe the better the response is likely to be.
If you're in doubt post an image of what your current wiring is. All your previous images are rendered obsolete due to the constant changes to the wiring you are making.
that's the step I'm on now. Going back, checking both white and green wires. Disconnecting anything that looks like a problem, and re testing. THAT is what got the jet bumpers to work again. I disconnected a Swamp Millions target, and one of the upper loops, and Boom. all Jet Bumpers work again.
I followed back the other wires to see where they lead, and everything SEEMS OK. Nothing looks burnt. Nothing looks like it has a dent in it.
Nothing looks like it has a cut in it.
I have since wound up disconnecting all but 5 working ones. Grave A, Bumper 33 Bumper 35, Grave G Grave R. 16, 75, 78 still do not want to work at all. not with another switch either.
This is what my current switch edges graphic looks like. I have not messed with this at all, since I was still learning how to make the T3 settings work.
This is what my current T3 switches look like with everything disconnected minus those five mentioned above. 16, 75 and 78 still do not want work, everything else is fine.
If I knew how to read switch edges, I can tell you what that says during a test.
307173796_10159851583070211_201120782569619876_n (resized).jpg
307924420_10159851583090211_1670334826748045511_n (resized).jpgQuoted from Shredder565:16, 75, 78
I'll throw my 2 cents in here to try to help too. These three switches are in same general area relative to each other (center trough, Left Out lane and Left flipper lane 1). If 76 and 77 work, I think you can rule out the green/violet wire for Column 7 unless it is not connected well to switches 75 and 78. For 75 and 78, It seems it has to be the White/Green (75) or White/Gray (78) connection at these two switches. Since all of the other Row 5 and Row 8 switches are working it has to be something with the connection of these white/ wires to these specific switches.
I have to think the same is true for switch 16 (center trough). The other switches that use Green/Brown (column 1) and white/blue (row 6) are working so it has to be the connections specifically to the center trough switch.
As for what you are seeing on the switch edges test display. The grid represents the switch matrix. Your display is showing that Column 2 Row 4 is closed or switched on/activated. In the TAF switch matrix this switch is supposed to be "Always Closed". It is also showing Column 3 Row 5 is closed. This is the lower Jet bumper switch this could just be an adjustment that needs to be made to the leaf switch to ensure it only activates when the bumper skirt is hit by the ball or pressed with your finger. the other active switch is column 8 row 4 (Thing Down Opto). I don't think you have worked the optos yet so there may be a short at this location.
If you notice there is a column of dots to the left and right of the 8X8 grid. These represent the Direct connection switches (D). These are coin switches test/menu switches and flipper switches (buttons and End Of Stroke EOS).
DumbAss may be the smartest person I've ever consulted on this stuff. He always has good advice and a wealth of pinball/electronics knowledge.
Good luck and keep it up. You will get there sooner or later.
Quoted from Shredder565:If I knew how to read switch edges, I can tell you what that says during a test.
The display is an EXACT representation of the switch matrix chart/picture from the manual that has been posted here many times.
Just count down columns and over the rows to find a switch.
As stated on the chart, one is always closed. The system uses it as a reference.
Quoted from Walamab:I'll throw my 2 cents in here to try to help too. These three switches are in same general area relative to each other (center trough, Left Out lane and Left flipper lane 1). If 76 and 77 work, I think you can rule out the green/violet wire for Column 7 unless it is not connected well to switches 75 and 78. For 75 and 78, It seems it has to be the White/Green (75) or White/Gray (78) connection at these two switches. Since all of the other Row 5 and Row 8 switches are working it has to be something with the connection of these white/ wires to these specific switches.
I have to think the same is true for switch 16 (center trough). The other switches that use Green/Brown (column 1) and white/blue (row 6) are working so it has to be the connections specifically to the center trough switch.
As for what you are seeing on the switch edges test display. The grid represents the switch matrix. Your display is showing that Column 2 Row 4 is closed or switched on/activated. In the TAF switch matrix this switch is supposed to be "Always Closed". It is also showing Column 3 Row 5 is closed. This is the lower Jet bumper switch this could just be an adjustment that needs to be made to the leaf switch to ensure it only activates when the bumper skirt is hit by the ball or pressed with your finger. the other active switch is column 8 row 4 (Thing Down Opto). I don't think you have worked the optos yet so there may be a short at this location.
If you notice there is a column of dots to the left and right of the 8X8 grid. These represent the Direct connection switches (D). These are coin switches test/menu switches and flipper switches (buttons and End Of Stroke EOS).
DumbAss may be the smartest person I've ever consulted on this stuff. He always has good advice and a wealth of pinball/electronics knowledge.
Good luck and keep it up. You will get there sooner or later.
Yes, 76 and 77 work perfectly and have never had a problem. They've worked since first hookup. I'll see where White Green and White Gray connects too. Maybe there is something I can test with the ohm.
Right now, 75 and 78 are disconnected from the switch, as well as 16. I am doing the 'brief wires crossed' method. and have never gotten them to work.
Quoted from Walamab:Good luck and keep it up. You will get there sooner or later.
I hope so. at this point, if I ever hear a confirmation ding from those three, I will celebrate with a huge dinner.
Quoted from pinballinreno:The display is an EXACT representation of the switch matrix chart/picture from the manual that has been posted here many times.
Just count down columns and over the rows to find a switch.
As stated on the chart, one is always closed. The system uses it as a reference.
Yes, that part I understand now. but on the T1 setting, how come it only lets you select three switches? The only black wires I have on this harness are not connected to anything.
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