(Topic ID: 257696)

Addams Family - Scratch Build?

By Shredder565

4 years ago


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“This project is”

  • Ambitious 117 votes
    42%
  • insane 135 votes
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  • will be undone by a official remake in a few months..:) 27 votes
    10%

(279 votes)

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There are 5,470 posts in this topic. You are on page 58 of 110.
#2851 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

Spent some time fiddling with wires, moving switches around to see if they worked out of place. no such luck.
Just to start fresh, I have an extra set of the non working ones ready to be on order for tomorrow along with a new set of diodes (hopefully the right diodes) as a last resort to get 'em all working fast. If I'm going to have to cut and re solder wires anyway, might as well start with a fret set of prongs.
will give one last try of working with the ones tomorrow and see what happens.
BTW, now that my start button is working, how do the flipper cabinet switches get wired? Added some credits, and hoped to start a game just to get background music going, and got 'missing pinbal'. doh .

I doubt that the switches are bad, they are quite robust and easily checked with an ohmmeter.

More likely you have reversed diodes and/or reversed/incorrectly placed wires.

The correct diodes are IN4001, but most people put in the much more robust IN4007 ones.

Either will work perfectly.

Start reading here:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems

You can trace the wires back to the connectors by color etc. or from the row and column connectors to the end points.

If the wire pairs are right, you can even briefly touch the ends together (make a switch jumper out of a couple alligator clips and a piece of scrap wire and clip onto a diode (banded side away from the clip) connect the empty clip to the white wire and touch diode lead to the other colored wire) to see the wires work properly in test.

You will also see that the matrix everyone talks about is real and is represented on the display screen.

one of the 8 pins on the row connector go to one each of the 8 pins on the column connector, there are 8 pins on each connector, 8 x 8 = 64 switch combinations

Rows and columns now begin to make sense in a real world experiment (they are labeled on the cpu board).

Playing with the cpu board and jumpers is fun and informative. Its low voltge and if you take care not to cross something with high voltage, relatively safe.

Now you have learned how to test the CPU pins, and then the wires for continuity.
All thats left is to wire the switch correctly.

It should help to light your way.

The lamp matrix is similar in concept.

#2852 1 year ago

New Pop Bumper switch came in, wired up, works perfectly.

As annoyingly over doing it as some might think, think it's easier and faster just to order new switches for those not working, and test before I solder. do it one by one, and easier to trouble shoot that way. then when you get it working, step in and solder. hopefully next week, I can consider this finished and move on to the lights.

#2853 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

New Pop Bumper switch came in, wired up, works perfectly.
As annoyingly over doing it as some might think, think it's easier and faster just to order new switches for those not working, and test before I solder. do it one by one, and easier to trouble shoot that way. then when you get it working, step in and solder. hopefully next week, I can consider this finished and move on to the lights.

Pop bumper switches are leaf switches. Simple metal to metal contact, old school.

The only way they wouldnt work is dirty contacts or broken off leaves. take a look at the one you replaced and you can check this out.

It very possible it just needed adjusting.

You will need to know how to do this in the future to keep the leaf switches working correctly. They need adjustments once in awhile.

Clean the contacts (on modern games) with rough paper like a crisp dollar bill or a little metal polish (the tiniest amount) like Flitz or simichrome.

Dont sand them.

#2854 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Pop bumper switches are leaf switches. Simple metal to metal contact, old school.
The only way they wouldnt work is dirty contacts or broken off leaves. take a look at the one you replaced and you can check this out.
It very possible it just needed adjusting.
You will need to know how to do this in the future to keep the leaf switches working correctly. They need adjustments once in awhile.
Clean the contacts with rough paper like a crisp dollar bill or a little metal polish (the tiniest amount) like Flitz or simichrome.
Dont sand them.

actually, this one was the one with the connectors almost glued together, and the wrong diode on it (green, with no marker indicating which was the right one for the hot wire.). thankfully, this new one came in better shape, with the proper diode, so I knew where to put the white wire.

#2855 1 year ago

Looks good so far, congratulations on making it this far. Are you going to turn the start button 90 degrees? That would bug the shit out of me.

#2856 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

actually, this one was the one with the connectors almost glued together, and the wrong diode on it (green, with no marker indicating which was the right one for the hot wire.). thankfully, this new one came in better shape, with the proper diode, so I knew where to put the white wire.

Sounds like the wrong switch was sent to you.

Some have a resistor or even a capacitor or both (older games) instead of a diode.

#2857 1 year ago
Quoted from Monk:

Looks good so far, congratulations on making it this far. Are you going to turn the start button 90 degrees? That would bug the shit out of me.

Its Avant-Garde!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-garde

#2858 1 year ago
Quoted from Monk:

Looks good so far, congratulations on making it this far. Are you going to turn the start button 90 degrees? That would bug the shit out of me.

That I am, eventually . right now focus is on getting the switches working. ordered a second set of targets and replacement switches. hopefully here tuesday. and with any luck, THOSE will work. Then I can cable tie up the switch wiring and start trying to figure out the lights. thankfully, the switches went fast once I knew how to do it right. It all looks so daunting when you see it laid out like that.

#2859 1 year ago

you know, I was wondering something. could the switches not work if the white wire touches any part of the diode?

#2860 1 year ago

How much have you spent on shipping alone so far? So many orders

#2861 1 year ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

How much have you spent on shipping alone so far? So many orders

say a 100 orders so far? $2,000?

#2862 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

say a 100 orders so far? $2,000?

#2863 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

you know, I was wondering something. could the switches not work if the white wire touches any part of the diode?

no, the white wire (in your case) and the non-banded side of the diode are on the same lug, but the diode could be backwards.

But check your work on the drop targets. The non-banded side of the diode goes to the white (hot, higher potential) wire in your case.

Most likely you have backwards diodes, not bad switches.

If the diode is backwards the power stops there immediately and wont go thru the circuit.

To test, clip out the diode that may be backwards. test the switch and you will get activation on the screen, it wont hurt the game. You might get 4 activations, but this tests the switch. Then put the diode in correctly, and test again.

Leaf switches are very simple, single contact mechanical switches.

The key here is that the white wire (in your case) goes to the non banded side of the diode on all of the switches in the game.

#2864 1 year ago

This is what the ones that don't work look like. I originally had the green daisy chained like I think it ws supposed to be. 45, 47, 48.
cut 'em to see if that helped any and no such luck.

306323630_10159830263700211_7336075392468810490_n (resized).jpg306323630_10159830263700211_7336075392468810490_n (resized).jpg
#2865 1 year ago

sometimes having something to focus on and play with is worth more than money. it's a needed distraction .

#2866 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

sometimes having something to focus on and play with is worth more than money. it's a needed distraction .

Here is a pic from my non-restored game.
Note that the green wire on the lower millions switch has an extra pair of wires on the green wire connection:
millions switches 3 (resized).jpgmillions switches 3 (resized).jpg

#2867 1 year ago

here is a pic if the lower millions:

20220909_132652 (resized).jpg20220909_132652 (resized).jpg
#2868 1 year ago

here is a pic of the upper 2 switches:

millions switches 2 (resized).jpgmillions switches 2 (resized).jpg
#2869 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

sometimes having something to focus on and play with is worth more than money. it's a needed distraction .

I would start with the lower millions, get it working, and then do the other 2

#2870 1 year ago

sounds like a plan. I do wish there was a solder vacuum sucker. just power vacuum it all off for a clean start once heating up and it's like new.

#2871 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

sounds like a plan. I do wish there was a solder vacuum sucker. just power vacuum it all off for a clean start once heating up and it's like new.

solder sucker:

https://www.amazon.com/Desoldering-Vacuum-Large-Teflon-Antistatic/dp/B00KQAIXEY/ref=sr_1_10

you can use real copper scrubbing pads or pieces cut from them to draw off extra solder.
Put one in a tuna can or ashtray to clean your tip.

Must be real copper.

get them at the grocery store:

https://www.amazon.com/Chore-Boy-Copper-Scouring-Pad-2ct/dp/B006K3XS5A

#2872 1 year ago

may have to get that. save on rebuys if a diode ever fails.

#2873 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

may have to get that. save on rebuys if a diode ever fails.

I've never seen a diode fail. Wire may break, but the diode never fails.

#2874 1 year ago
Quoted from JimWilks:

I've never seen a diode fail. Wire may break, but the diode never fails.

well, that's good to know. I wish they could replace christmas light fuses with them.

#2875 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

sounds like a plan. I do wish there was a solder vacuum sucker. just power vacuum it all off for a clean start once heating up and it's like new.

The power version is something like this...

https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FR-301-Desoldering-Tool/dp/B07BKSLLG9/ref=sr_1_3

Though the manual ones like linked above work just fine at a fraction of the price, albeit slower.

#2876 1 year ago

I was curious of what your switch matrix looked like, i.e. working row/columns.

For column 4, making sure the wire crimp at the board connection is good, then I would start with switch 41, and disconnect the green wire at 42. Get 41 working and work down the column the same way.
screenshot_1237 (resized).pngscreenshot_1237 (resized).png

#2877 1 year ago
Quoted from setzkor:

The power version is something like this...
amazon.com link »
Though the manual ones like linked above work just fine at a fraction of the price, albeit slower.

I rewarded myself with one of these last year, after years of using a manual solder sucker. Not sure why I waited so long (price...)

#2878 1 year ago
Quoted from setzkor:

The power version is something like this...
amazon.com link »
Though the manual ones like linked above work just fine at a fraction of the price, albeit slower.

The manual ones are good for getting solder off coils and switches. If you're doing any type of board work the Hakko can't be beat. Hands down some of the best money I've ever spent in this hobby.

#2879 1 year ago

Put one on order . Switch replacements come monday. will do them one by one, and won't solder until we get it working. Now that I know how the testing works .

#2880 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

Put one on order . Switch replacements come monday. will do them one by one, and won't solder until we get it working. Now that I know how the testing works .

Send me all the brand new switches that you are throwing out please!

#2881 1 year ago

If I'd have known about the solder vacuum first, I wouldn't need to .

I'll test the new toy with those guys first. if they clean off nice, they are yours if you want 'em

It'd be nice to get the switches all working by wesnday and then start on the lights. I want pretty flashies to look at .

#2882 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

If I'd have known about the solder vacuum first, I wouldn't need to .
I'll test the new toy with those guys first. if they clean off nice, they are yours if you want 'em
It'd be nice to get the switches all working by wesnday and then start on the lights. I want pretty flashies to look at .

Great deal, Im in! (you dont even need to clean them)

#2883 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

If I'd have known about the solder vacuum first, I wouldn't need to .
I'll test the new toy with those guys first. if they clean off nice, they are yours if you want 'em
It'd be nice to get the switches all working by wesnday and then start on the lights. I want pretty flashies to look at .

Another way to remove solder from something is to heat up the solder then 'bang' the item on a table or board.
The solder will just fall off.

This method works well on switches.

Matt.

#2884 1 year ago

so, I took off switch 25. I didn't hear the switch click on this one when I depressed it. maybe that's why it didn't wanna work, because it wasn't functional.

Also, does anyone connect their white wire like this? seems easier and cleaner than soldering.

306699687_10159834525110211_1245206542954119922_n (resized).jpg306699687_10159834525110211_1245206542954119922_n (resized).jpg
#2885 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

so, I took off switch 25. I didn't hear the switch click on this one when I depressed it. maybe that's why it didn't wanna work, because it wasn't functional.
Also, does anyone connect their white wire like this? seems easier and cleaner than soldering.[quoted image]

depending on the type of switch, it may not click, best to just check the switch operation with a multi-meter using the continuity mode of the meter.

#2886 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

so, I took off switch 25. I didn't hear the switch click on this one when I depressed it. maybe that's why it didn't wanna work, because it wasn't functional.
Also, does anyone connect their white wire like this? seems easier and cleaner than soldering.[quoted image]

The connector goes to a lug. The color of the wire will guide you.

trough switches and some others have lugs.

#2887 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

I didn't hear the switch click on this one when I depressed it. maybe that's why it didn't wanna work, because it wasn't functional.

This is hard to say without testing on an ohmmeter.

#2888 1 year ago
Quoted from chillme:

I was curious of what your switch matrix looked like, i.e. working row/columns.
For column 4, making sure the wire crimp at the board connection is good, then I would start with switch 41, and disconnect the green wire at 42. Get 41 working and work down the column the same way.
[quoted image]

OK, getting back to this post. Today, new targets came in. Hooked up the new train wreck, NOW that one works just like the G(?) does next to it. Hooked up 45 47 48 nothing. hooked up 41, 42, nothing.

So, If something DID come looks in the crimp area, which wire color would most likely be the culprit?

#2889 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

OK, getting back to this post. Today, new targets came in. Hooked up the new train wreck, NOW that one works just like the G(?) does next to it. Hooked up 45 47 48 nothing. hooked up 41, 42, nothing.
So, If something DID come looks in the crimp area, which wire color would most likely be the culprit?

Test the wire all the way back to the backbox connector with an ohmmeter.

When there is a question, its best to first check the continuity of the wires and the continuity of the connector to the pin on the pc board.

If you pull out the connector from the pc board slightly, you can test the molex connection to the pin on the pc board to be sure it connects.

An ohmmeter is an invauable tool for checking connections.

for verification, you can touch the wires of a switch directly together breifly in switch edge test.

You should get a beep sound and a display reading of the last switch activated.

This would be the same as the testing in the article above that I posted.

#2890 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Test the wire all the way back to the backbox connector with an ohmmeter.
When there is a question, its best to first check the continuity of the wires and the continuity of the connector to the pin on the pc board.
If you pull out the connector from the pc board slightly, you can test the molex connection to the pin on the pc board to be sure it works.
An ohmmeter is an invauable tool for checking connections.
for verification, you can touch the wires of a switch directly together breifly in switch edge test.
You should get a beep sound and a display reading of the last switch activated.

it sounds scary, but I'll give it a try.

also, I noticed these two wires are with the 45,47,48 connectors bundled together. where do these go?
maybe this is why those are not working.

302140455_10159834694700211_6882934631144976394_n (resized).jpg302140455_10159834694700211_6882934631144976394_n (resized).jpg
#2891 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Test the wire all the way back to the backbox connector with an ohmmeter.
When there is a question, its best to first check the continuity of the wires and the continuity of the connector to the pin on the pc board.
If you pull out the connector from the pc board slightly, you can test the molex connection to the pin on the pc board to be sure it connects.
An ohmmeter is an invauable tool for checking connections.
for verification, you can touch the wires of a switch directly together breifly in switch edge test.
You should get a beep sound and a display reading of the last switch activated.
This would be the same as the testing in the article above that I posted.

just to confirm, to test the wiring, you touch the green and white wires together without a diode for a second?

#2892 1 year ago
Quoted from fattmatt1972:

Another way to remove solder from something is to heat up the solder then 'bang' the item on a table or board. The solder will just fall off.

Wear eye protection. Liquid solder splashed into your eye is no joke.

I wear glass lenses in my eyeglasses and a bunch of times a year I have little splashes of solder on my eyeglasses.

#2893 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

just to confirm, to test the wiring, you touch the green and white wires together without a diode for a second?

Yes, its ok for a test.

#2894 1 year ago

More Progress. the new Switch on 25 now works.

But 78 and 75 do not, both new switches.

So, so far one new target and one new switch made a difference.

#2895 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

More Progress. the new Switch on 25 now works.
But 78 and 75 do not, both new switches.
So, so far one new target and one new switch made a difference.

Test the wires before soldering them in.

#2896 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Test the wires before soldering them in.

I just did a t3 test on switch 75. two wires together....white wire on green metal tab, and nothing. no sound at all.

#2897 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredder565:

I just did a t3 test on switch 75. two wires together....white wire on green metal tab, and nothing. no sound at all.

Trace the wires back.

Make sure they go to the right pins on the pc board.

The wires have to be correct.

Check the crimp and connection at the pc board.

Test the wires if you have problems.

If the wires are correct and have continuity, touching them together will be shown in test mode.

We know this is true as you can just jumper the pins on the cpu board and see it in test.

#2898 1 year ago

I tried to trace them back, but I may need more experienced eyes. It's the weirdest thing though. I tested cousin it, and THAT target worked. never tried it before. I went back to test 48, and now THAT one worked. no go yet on 47 or 45 but they should be working now to. But if 44A/B now works, and I can get 48,47, 45 to work. That means 86 works, 62 works. and have yet to test 41 and 42. that would be almost all the targets working now.

#2899 1 year ago

Add on. Not sure what the hell it is I changed. I noticed there was a little white tab on one of the connectors that might have prevented full contact, so I cut that off, and all of a sudden all the targets at least seem to be working now. still have to wire up 47 and 45, but looking better than it was. IF I get all the targets working, that means I only have about 6 switches to get working and I can move on to lights finally.

#2900 1 year ago

Yes make sure no switches aren’t touching anything but where soldered to. They can be a bitch sometimes to track down and you’re doing right testing now.

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