(Topic ID: 26240)

Addams Family down for the count.


By Arcade

7 years ago



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  • 86 posts
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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by zucot
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There are 86 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 7 years ago

My Addams Family has taken a turn for the worst as of last night. It started off on power up saying coin door open. Now on power up it just says check fuses 114 and 115. However both fuses are fine. All the lights are working and the bookcase turns but I am unable to start a game or even use the menu and volume buttons.
Anyone had this happen or know what may be wrong?

#2 7 years ago

Check out Pinwiki for the WPC section...pretty sure they cover this. If I remember right it was something dumb and/or easy.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_messagey..

#3 7 years ago

Turn off the game, press down firmly on the CPU chip a few times. If this doesn't work, go through the troubleshooting on pin wiki.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Check out Pinwiki for the WPC section...pretty sure they cover this. If I remember right it was something dumb and/or easy.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_messagey..

PinWiki has come a long way since I last looked ...!! Good work someone!

I have found this issue is usually a blown chip at U20. Caused by voltage going into the switch network.

My Champion Pub had this issue. Coil voltage had entered the switch matrix through the speed bag mechanism (not unusual evidently) It took out 3 chips ... U20, the one above it and also the security chip.

If you have another machine, try swapping the U20 chip and see what happens.

And of course, if this fixes it you need to find out where your short is and stop it. Or else it will happen again.

Good luck!

#5 7 years ago

My BSD had this issue ahwhile back...I had to socket and replace u20 on cpu...

#6 7 years ago

Awesome. Thanks for the replies

#7 7 years ago

I get a reading of 10 volts on both the TP 3 and on pin 10 of the U20 chip.
Not sure if my 12 volt is faulty or if U20 has been shorted out.

#8 7 years ago

10v on your your TP3 isn't good, your ground good?

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from Spudgunman:

10v on your your TP3 isn't good, your ground good?

Pretty sure ground is good, but I will check tomorrow.
My 5 volts is spot on.
12 volts reads 10 volts.
18 volts reads 20 volts.

So I am 2 volts under on one and 2 volts over on another.

#10 7 years ago

That's a reasonable range of error for an unregulated circuit.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

That's a reasonable range of error for an unregulated circuit.

True but none of my WPC ever read that low

#12 7 years ago

It depends on the amount of age on the electronics.

#13 7 years ago

Had this happen as well chip U20 - rather common that these are failing these days.

#14 7 years ago

Anyone have a good source for the 20 pin ULN2803?

I found a 18 pin ULN2803A at Marco but not the 20 pin.

I'm sure I can order it from Ralphs electronics here in town, but if I can throw one in with a pinball order, then all the better.

Sure would be nice if it was a plug and play socket chip. Not a big fan of soldering those things. But I had to do it on my Twilight Zone before.

#15 7 years ago

Count your pins again. I think its the one listed on Marco. I got my part via them and its the same one. The A is just the way it was sold in what type of batch. The good news is they did wake up and start socketing this chip the bad news is not on your game.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from coz6:

Count your pins again. I think its the one listed on Marco. I got my part via them and its the same one. The A is just the way it was sold in what type of batch. The good news is they did wake up and start socketing this chip the bad news is not on your game.

Awesome. I will double check. I just went by the pinwiki that said to check voltage on the far left pin 10. Which would make it a 20 pin chip.
I will double check the count when I get home, but I bet it is the 18 pin.

#17 7 years ago

Also I am sure you know but purchase the socket - this chip can trip like a fuse for the slightest of reasons. I had a WPC game that I replaced a light bulb socket on it and it was close not touching and it popped like crazy. However, on this game when I replaced the chip it never "tripped" again - I think its an age thing unless you have been making some adjustments.

#18 7 years ago

I was not aware you could put a socket on the main board. That is a great addition and I will certainly do that.
Mine has to be an age problem. I was not even playing the game when it happened.
I just turned it on to show somebody what it looked like and while I was talking to them a message came up telling me the coin door was open. since it was not open I decided to power off the game. When I powered it back up again it had the check Fuses 114 and 115 message.
I feel certain it is the U20 chip.

#19 7 years ago

A fuse typically will go out with this error message as well - replacing the fuse and powering on the game you should see it blow again and again until you replace the chip. Its not a fuse the chip referenced but if your placing and order look for the bad fuse unless you have plenty around. Nothing worse then realizing you don't have all the right parts. Good luck

#20 7 years ago

All fuses are fine.
None were blown when the message came up.
But I have plenty of fuses on hand as I run an arcade.
Thanks again for all the tips.

#21 7 years ago

Before you fire up the iron, try this.
Remove J210 from the MPU then power up.
Measure for 12V now at TP3 on the power/driver board.
What does it measure?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Before you fire up the iron, try this.
Remove J210 from the MPU then power up.
Measure for 12V now at TP3 on the power/driver board.
What does it measure?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

Happy to.
Probably can't get to it till after work.

#23 7 years ago

Stopped home for lunch.
With j210 unplugged I get 3.45 volt at T3

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

With j210 unplugged I get 3.45 volt at T3

Well, that's good. That's a problem, and your MPU is not causing it.
Step II of testing...
Replace connector J210 on the MPU.
Remove connector J114 on the Power/Driver board.
J114 is where the 12V power leaves the driver board for consumption downstream.

Turn the game on. It won't boot since the MPU isn't receiving power. That's OK.
Measure the voltage at TP3 (12V) as well as the 12VUR (unregulated) test point.

Report those voltages.

Also, there is a capacitor about 1.75" to the left of the 7812 voltage regulator (top, leftish side of the board with a heat sink). Examine the area around that cap for corrosion. Any there?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#25 7 years ago

Thanks.
I will have that done around 5:00
Really appreciate the help.

#26 7 years ago

Ok.
With J 114 disconnected I get 7.45 volts on TP3 and 17.43 volts on the 12 volt unregulated.
The capacitor is in great shape with no leaking.

#27 7 years ago

Nice work.
Since you have 17.43 at the unregulated test point (TP8), lets measure power between ground (head ground braid) and the banded side of D1 and D2.

Each diode will drop the DC voltage by .5 to .7 volts (sound familiar?).
The banded side of D1 should read about 16.83.
The banded side of D2 should read about 16.23, give or take.

If those read good, test the output of the 7812 regulator. Black lead still on ground. Red lead carefully on the bottom leg of the 7812. Here is where you should read 12VDC. If you don't, the regulator has failed.

If you read 12VDC at the regulator, there is nothing left but the cap at C2. Remove it if you have the tools. Examine it for leakage. If your DMM measures capacitance, measure it.

This PinWiki article has a pic of one of the boards I repaired. Look for the pic of the board. You should be able to see where C2 leaked.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_message

Report back. Carry on soldier.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#28 7 years ago

It has been nice working with you Sargent. lol.
I can't get to the machine till after work tomorrow.
But that sounds easy enough.
I'll report back as soon as I have some intel.

#29 7 years ago

Alright, here is the latest information on my power board problem.

First of all I thought that TP1 was the unregulated 12volt you wanted me to measure, not TP8.

So the reading from TP8 was 21.6 Volts.
The reading at D1 was 20.2 Volts
The reading at D2 was 20.1 volts
The reading at 7812 was 11.97 volts

So I guess the guilty party is C2
It has been a long time since I had to measure capacitance and since I have to remove the entire board to do that I thought I would post a photo of my meter (a Meterman 15XP) in the hopes you could tell me what setting I should use if any.
Thanks for all the help so far.

IMG_0957small.jpg

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

PinWiki has come a long way since I last looked ...!! Good work someone!
I have found this issue is usually a blown chip at U20. Caused by voltage going into the switch network.
My Champion Pub had this issue. Coil voltage had entered the switch matrix through the speed bag mechanism (not unusual evidently) It took out 3 chips ... U20, the one above it and also the security chip.
If you have another machine, try swapping the U20 chip and see what happens.
And of course, if this fixes it you need to find out where your short is and stop it. Or else it will happen again.
Good luck!

+1 Just fixed this exact problem on my brothers TAF.

#31 7 years ago

Oops. That DMM does not measure capacitance.
Just remove the cap, look for damage under it from corrosive spooge, clean up if necessary, and install a new cap. Be sure to pay attention to cap polarity.

If you don't feel comfortable replacing the cap and don't have anyone close, I can take care of it.

It's a pretty simple repair. If you don't have a solder sucker, you can heat each leg of the cap alternately, and "rock" the cap out. Clean out the holes by heating any remaining solder, then blow through the holes. Be careful to not dwell on the hole too long, applying too much heat.

What do you think? CanCo?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#32 7 years ago

Thanks. I have lots of soldering experience and have replaced caps before. It should not be a problem and my local electronics store should have one in stock.
I really appreciate the step by step help.

#33 7 years ago

Sounds good. Let us know how it turns out.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#34 7 years ago

Picked up the cap this afternoon. Only .98 cents.
I'll post back if it fixes the problem or not.

#35 7 years ago

Houston, we have a problem.
The new capacitor is in place properly.
When I turn on the game, I get the same error message.
"Check Fuses F114 and F115"
The fuses have never blown throughout the whole ordeal.

So, Are we back to the U20 chip on the MPU board?

#36 7 years ago

Hmmm. Interesting. What does TP3 read now?

Until we have 12V at TP3 with J114 removed, we have to remain focused on the power driver board.

Remove J116, J117, and J118 too. They are all 4 pin connectors on the lower left side of the board.

--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#37 7 years ago

Here are the readings as of now with J114, 116,117 and 118 unplugged.

TP3 = 1.08
TP8 = 22.0
D1 = 21.5
D2 = 20.8
7812 = 11.98

#38 7 years ago

Bump for any ideas from Chris.

#39 7 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Here are the readings as of now with J114, 116,117 and 118 unplugged.
TP3 = 1.08
TP8 = 22.0
D1 = 21.5
D2 = 20.8
7812 = 11.98

Hmmm. All of those look OK, except for TP3.
It's evidence gathering time.

Power off.
Remove fuse F115.
J114/6/7/8 all still off.
Power on.
Game won't boot...that's OK.
Measure DC voltage at both left and right side of F115 fuse holder.
Report measurements.

One side should have 12VDC.
The other side will have something, but its really inconsequential.

What we are gathering evidence for is a possible shorted LM339 at U6, which would be odd, but not impossible. Something on the driver board is dragging down the regulated 12V and that's about the only thing left. Your fuse holder at F115 is securely soldered, and there is no indication of alkaline damage, right?

In fact, snap and post a picture of the area left of the 7812, including the 7812. We might be able to see something
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#40 7 years ago

Here is a picture I took after removing the old cap. I took a photo during the replacement process just in case.
I will have the F115 results soon.

IMG_0973small.jpg

#41 7 years ago

Ok. Here are the numbers

left side of the fuse holder is .005
Right side is 8.7 (However it was a slow climb from 4.5 to 8.7)

Now that have taken a new photo of the new capacitor with the flash on, I can see where looks like it has leaked out on the upper pin.
I was very careful to make sure it went on the same way the old cap came off, the gray stripe is facing the same way the old cap did. It is a little bit smaller then the original but had the same specs.
Here is the photo that shows the leaking. I think.

IMG_0976small.jpg IMG_0977small.jpg

Old cap on the right and the new package they sold me from the specs sheet.

#42 7 years ago

OK. Thanks for the numbers.
I have to believe that the trace at the cap is compromised.
It's tough to tell in the pics.

Measure resistance from the lower leg of the 7812 to the right side of the fuse holder. It should be a dead short.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#43 7 years ago

I can email the large pics if u need.
The larger file size shows a lot more detail.

And sorry to ask, but how do I measure resistance?
I am guessing the omega symbol on my meter.

#44 7 years ago

Yes...you can email them to chibler@charter.net

And yes, the omega symbol is resistance. You can also check for continuity between the two points, but I'd really like to know the resistance reading.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#45 7 years ago

In this picture, you can see where both traces might be compromised.
Use some fine grit sand paper to clean up those traces. Repair them as necessary. You may be able to get by with "tinning" them with solder after you sand them off. But since one or both of them isn't conducting with 0 ohms resistance, one or both of them must be severed, and merely conducting through the material that the cap leaked. Sand them. Then you can make a decision.

Those though holes are important. The positive hole goes through to the fuse. It's important to have a good solder joint on both sides of the board, especially if the through holes have been damaged. I'd recommend letting the cap float about 1/4" above the board so that you can clearly solder both sides of the through hole.

Why did the new cap leak? Hmmm. Could have been because of poor connection at the negative side. Just a guess. You'll obviously need a new one. It's a 100uf/25V and you did install it correctly.

--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

WPC12VFilterCapLeakDamage.jpg

#46 7 years ago

The cap came in a pack of two so no problem there.
I get continuity to the fuse.
I tried resistance and only got a 17 to show up. However I had no idea how to set the meter properly so not sure that is any help.
I will try and read up on how to repair the traces as I feel that must be the problem

#48 7 years ago

Starting to think this may be over my ability to solve.
The new cap did not leak, but I figured the traces were bad so I removed it anyway.
I cleaned with isopropyl, then lightly scraped off the traces to bridge.
After putting in the newer capacitor, it checked all leads for continuity further up the traces.
It beeped every time. Great, I thought. It will surely work this time.
However when I fire up the game I get the same error message.
"Check fuses F114 and F115."

I guess if you are out of ideas for me to try, I can mail you the board as you suggested earlier.
I am willing to keep trying things.

#49 7 years ago

Ok. Last idea. Remove both F114 abd F115, abd buzz them. Got tone?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#50 7 years ago

Yes. lol
I have tried that at least a dozen times.

Any clues with the way this occured maybe?
I turned on the machine, not to play it, but just to show somebody the lights.
While we were standing there talking, a message came up on the screen saying the coin door was open.
I opened and closed the coin door but nothing happened.
So I powered down the machine, then the check fuses message came up upon power up and has never gone away.

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