(Topic ID: 161866)

Addams Family


By QVTech

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by whthrs166
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

I have an AF that "Thing" wont operate in the game. When checking the motor, the up and down optics keep flashing open and closed continuously. have replaced the optic board at the "Thing" on the motor, replaced both chips on the optic control board and the 2 chips that tie in to that circuit on the WPC CPU BOARD. I can run the motor in test and check the optics in the optic test and all is well but in motor test they are erratic. Any help would be appreciated.

#2 3 years ago

I sure hope you can get some answers soon. Did you check for a dirty switch? Be patient, help will arrive soon!

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from QVTech:

I have an AF that "Thing" wont operate in the game. When checking the motor, the up and down optics keep flashing open and closed continuously. have replaced the optic board at the "Thing" on the motor, replaced both chips on the optic control board and the 2 chips that tie in to that circuit on the WPC CPU BOARD. I can run the motor in test and check the optics in the optic test and all is well but in motor test they are erratic. Any help would be appreciated.

Did you replace or reflow solder on the optical sender(s) and receiver(s)? Sounds like a cracked solder joint or wire has come loose. JUST had this exact issue yesterday on a game I repaired.

#4 3 years ago

Yeah I would inspect the wires to the opto sensors.

#5 3 years ago

Replaced the board with a new one so no bad solder, checked wires all the way back to the board and all are good. I did just discover if I block both optics in the motor test it shows both closed and stops acting crazy. unblock them and it goes crazy again.
It's about quitting time today, will try more Monday.

#6 3 years ago

To be clear, when you say board, are you talking about these boards: image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

#7 3 years ago

Yeah, there is no "board". It really sounds like you need to reflow solder or replace the senders/receivers. Also sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about so maybe you could take some pics of exactly what you replaced.

#8 3 years ago

Bally part # A-15285 2-opto switch assembly board. It is a board that mounts to the motor assembly that has the optos and diodes soldered to it. I do have over 28 years experience working on vending equipment and 19 plus of that is only amusement machines and pinballs. This is the first time I can't figure out the problem so I had hoped to find someone who knows the Addams Family pinball first hand.

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#9 3 years ago

You said you were testing in motor test. Did you test in switch edge test? Optos natural state is closed so as you break the beam, it should switch to open. If it reports correctly I would focus on the opto interrupter (see D in the attachment) to verify it is present and orintated correctly. A faulty interrupter will cause all kinds of funky results since the game can't find "home". image_(resized).png

#10 3 years ago

In switch edge test they do work properly. In the motor test both keep flashing open and closed even without the motor running. If I cycle the motor to block one it stops beeping and flashing for it but the other keeps going. If I block the second one while the first is still blocked everything stops beeping and flashing and shows normal. I've looked for wires crossed or shorted but no luck.

#11 3 years ago

The two biggest mysteries on Pinside right now are this thread and this one.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-wont-leds-work-in-certain-sockets

Calling Lloyd!!!!!!!!!!

Watching both threads for the solution.

#12 3 years ago

Can you confirm that the small TWO PIN PLUG that goes to the motor (pictured above as part of harness A) is connected properly? If it is not, thing will act crazy.

#13 3 years ago

Yes, it is plugged in proper and secure. It connects to the magnet in things fingers and the magnet will work in test.

#14 3 years ago

This should be interesting to hear what is the root cause of this opto "flickering". I've got a guy local to me that I've worked on his Gilligan's Island before that has this exact same issue with the spinning island opto. The opto was flickering so badly that I replaced the whole board and adjusted the height of the opto in reference to the interrupter. The flicker dropped off significantly, but it was still present.

His power driver board had some issues at some point before he got the machine with a flasher circuit that fried and melted a dome. It was never properly fixed. The game also blows fuses from time to time. It's gotta all be related somehow. I'm wondering if his power supply in that game room is an unreliable mess.

Have you checked voltages to that opto board? I wonder if the power to it is wavering around the minimum supply voltage necessary to create a solid beam.

#15 3 years ago

Ok. I'm grasping straws now. Voltage to the optic board is 9.6 vdc. it should be 12 vdc. On the schematic it shows I should have 9.8 vac going to the main board and converted to 12 vdc unregulated, but I'm only getting 6.6vac off the transformer going to the board and 9.6 vdc out from the main board. I have checked all my known sources for a transformer but they are obsolete. If anyone has a spare, please let me know. until then I'll keep trying other options. Part number #5610-12835-00

#16 3 years ago

Sounds like we're finally on to something hereā€¦

Maybe put up a wanted ad for a transformer? I know there are plenty of folks who part out machines here pretty regularly.There was just an ad for a guy parting out a High Speed, but it's a non DMD game, so it's transformer probably won't work.

Good luck!

#17 3 years ago

Have you checked the pins on the first connector directly from the transformer? It's MUCH more likely a failed or corroded pin on the main AC connector from the transformer (in the bottom of the cabinet) than it would be a failed transformer.

#18 3 years ago

I checked the pins, all are clean and fit tight. input voltage is 117vac but all outputs show low voltage compared to schematics.
I'll be off for the next 4 days but will next week see if I can locate a transformer with 9.8 vac output to run separate at least to test if not permanent.

#19 3 years ago

Unload the transformer by disconnecting the secondary of the transformer from the rest of the pinball machine and see if the voltages come up. If they do something is pulling the voltages down. Transformers rarely go bad without noticeable damage.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from yfz450:

Unload the transformer by disconnecting the secondary of the transformer from the rest of the pinball machine and see if the voltages come up. If they do something is pulling the voltages down. Transformers rarely go bad without noticeable damage.

Exactly. Also, is this machine plugged in to an extension cord?

Even if it is not, check your AC voltage at the plug to confirm it is not low! I had a problem like this drive me crazy on a game once. Turns out I was only getting 101 volts at the AC source because it was a bad power strip/cord!

#21 3 years ago

Transformer was tested both ways and no change. No extension cord and getting 117 vac.

#22 3 years ago

Have you found a solution yet?

#23 3 years ago

Can't low transformer voltage be caused by a bad Thermistor in the Metal power distribution box?

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Failed_Thermistor

And, as far as checking 117VAC, make sure you check it at the wires going to the transformer and not someplace like the service outlet.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Have you found a solution yet?

No luck yet, will check out CactusJacks post #23 today and see what happens.

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Can't low transformer voltage be caused by a bad Thermistor in the Metal power distribution box?
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Failed_Thermistor
And, as far as checking 117VAC, make sure you check it at the wires going to the transformer and not someplace like the service outlet.

Will try this today and see what happens.

#26 3 years ago

You should have about 9.6 VAC between the two white-green wires at J112 on the power driver board (i.e., not measured to ground). If you're not seeing that, check the power jumper settings at the connection to the transformer primary winding; perhaps someone has those mixed up.

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Can't low transformer voltage be caused by a bad Thermistor in the Metal power distribution box?
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Failed_Thermistor
And, as far as checking 117VAC, make sure you check it at the wires going to the transformer and not someplace like the service outlet.

I did the bypass and no difference.

#28 3 years ago

Okay. But have you checked to see what your line voltage (117VAC) is at the wires going to the transformer? Or have you been checking that elsewhere?

Can you provide a photo of the jumper wires going to the transformer (voltage selection)?

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from jadziedzic:

You should have about 9.6 VAC between the two white-green wires at J112 on the power driver board (i.e., not measured to ground). If you're not seeing that, check the power jumper settings at the connection to the transformer primary winding; perhaps someone has those mixed up.

Before placing the jumper on the thermistor I had 9.6 VAC on the white/green wires. With the jumper I get 12.6 VAC. I do have a new Thermistor ordered.

I do have good AC voltage going into the transformer but there are no jumpers that can be moved. only wires going into pins on the plugs. Only 3 people have worked on it since it was purchased new and all worked fine until recently. My original problem was rebooting when both flipper buttons were pushed at the same time, We brought the machine into the shop to fix that problem and discovered the issue with "thing" not operating. After talking with everyone on here and others locally I don't really think the transformer is causing the issue, voltages are slightly low but not critical and everything else is working fine.

If I go to "thing" test the optics show to continuously open and close regardless if the motor is running or not. if I run the motor to up or down position blocking the optic it will show open as it should but the other one keeps showing open and closed. I have replaced U14, U18, U19 and U20 on the WPC CPU board that all show to control these optics. I have replaced the 2-Opto assembly with a new one. (that's the Opto board for the motor) I have traced the white/yellow, white/green, and green/grey that are all part of that circuit and no shorts, nicks, bad diodes on other components or switches. It must be the Addams Family curse.

#30 3 years ago

With the game in switch edges test (T.1) do you see any similar flashing indication from the five other opto switches in the game (one in left lane below pop bumpers, four in front of book case)? If not, have you done any troubleshooting on the A-14977 7-opto board under the playfield? Perhaps one of the LM339 voltage comparator ICs is defective.

#31 3 years ago

No similar flashing and for some reason the "thing" optos don't go through the opto board with the others. I did replace both LM339 IC's and the capacitor, no change so I unplugged it just to see and still had the same issue.

#32 3 years ago

Just for fun I ran a jumper from TP3 (12 VR) to J118 pin 2 to get 12 VDC to that circuit. (Its only getting 9.7 from TP1 circuit but should be 12 VU) with this done everything works perfectly. I have already replaced the Bridge Rectifier and Capacitor in that circuit but for some reason it can't get the voltage needed to work the optics.

Does anyone know of any issues that may come up if I run a permanent jumper from TP3 to this circuit?

#33 3 years ago

You may already know this but Test Point 3 is a different source of 12V. It is the "Digital" 12VDC and is actually regulated by Q2 (7812) which gets its source voltage from the +18V for the lamp columns.

Of course, since your J118 12V (which is unregulated) is measuring less than 12.0 V, you are not back-feeding the regulator with any power. Instead, the regulator is feeding everything on the playfield that uses the unregulated 12VDC on J116, J117 and J118.

I didn't notice if you checked or already changed BR5 and/or C30 and F116? If you now have 12.6VAC with the Thermistor jumpered, you should have well in excess of 12V (probably closer to 15) at TP1 if the bridge, cap, fuse, and connections at J112 are good. Unless you have a bad fuse (not actually blown), bad fuse clips, or bad connection to J112, I would suspect your bridge has one bad diode in it, or C30 has dropped well below its 15,000ufd rating.

The 7812 is only rated for around 1 amp. Since by feeding this regulated voltage to the playfield, you are now powering the LM339's as well as all of the LED Emitters. The low voltage to the emitters (which are not regulated and their output is directly related to the +12 V Power they get) is why your optos are barely at the edge of their working output.

#34 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

You may already know this but Test Point 3 is a different source of 12V. It is the "Digital" 12VDC and is actually regulated by Q2 (7812) which gets its source voltage from the +18V for the lamp columns.
Of course, since your J118 12V (which is unregulated) is measuring less than 12.0 V, you are not back-feeding the regulator with any power. Instead, the regulator is feeding everything on the playfield that uses the unregulated 12VDC on J116, J117 and J118.
I didn't notice if you checked or already changed BR5 and/or C30 and F116? If you now have 12.6VAC with the Thermistor jumpered, you should have well in excess of 12V (probably closer to 15) at TP1 if the bridge, cap, fuse, and connections at J112 are good. Unless you have a bad fuse (not actually blown), bad fuse clips, or bad connection to J112, I would suspect your bridge has one bad diode in it, or C30 has dropped well below its 15,000ufd rating.
The 7812 is only rated for around 1 amp. Since by feeding this regulated voltage to the playfield, you are now powering the LM339's as well as all of the LED Emitters. The low voltage to the emitters (which are not regulated and their output is directly related to the +12 V Power they get) is why your optos are barely at the edge of their working output.

I had changed BR5 and C30, I did go back and reflow the solder on F116 and replaced the fuse. Still same output and issue. At the very least, I now know everything else is ok and working. Now I just have to figure out this voltage issue.

#35 3 years ago

IT'S FIXED!!!!!!!! A hair line crack in the trace underneath C30. I ran a jumper wire soldered at both ends to bypass the trace.
Thank you to everyone for your help and patience.

#36 3 years ago

Glad you got it going.

FYI, with no connection to C30, you basically had pulsating DC going to the optics and LM339's. That would certainly play havoc with the switch matrix reads.

The low voltage usually indicates either no filtering or half wave rectification.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from QVTech:

IT'S FIXED!!!!!!!! A hair line crack in the trace underneath C30. I ran a jumper wire soldered at both ends to bypass the trace.
Thank you to everyone for your help and patience.

Thanks for posting.
I have been following this for fun.

#38 3 years ago

Glad you fixed it!

#39 3 years ago

It's posts like this that make Pinside awesome!

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