Welcome to the world of em's Stringer.

What's nice is you can fix most of them for almost nothing as long as you start with a complete game.

Go to Clay's site:http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

Read as much as you can. Learn how relays, switches and contacts work and how to adjust contacts - that's a biggie. Especially 2d - stepper units, 2e stepper video, and 2g score reels. You seem to have resetting problems which generally are caused by score reels that are dirty and gummed up, and contacts that need cleaned and adjusted. Look for broken wires or anything unusual etc., along the way. The switch on the score reel you pointed out is a secondary problem and not that important - not worth fixing until you get all your other problems fixed. Stepper units that are gummed up with old lubricants that have dried and slowed down the stepper also need addressed. There's also a section on score motors which would be good to look at. It resets functions and a dirty/mis-adjusted set of contacts can cause resetting problems too. Your game won't work right unless all the steppers are cleaned and working properly.

This is a good start for you and you can give us an update as to how you're doing. Plenty of folks here willing to help.

Do you have a schematic? Pinball Resource will sell you a copy if you don't have one.

Clay's pinrepair guide should have a start-up sequence posted for your era of game. A start-up sequence tells you exactly what your game should do to complete the sequence and kick the 1st ball out to play. You need to follow the start-up sequence and refer to a schematic for best results. Once you know what step is not happening in start-up, you can isolate the problem by going to that area of the schematic.

Here's a link to a Pinside post with a you-tube video of score reels resetting on 1971 - 1977 games which may be similar to your Mibs even though it was made in 1969: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1971-1977-gottlieb-score-reel-reset-animationn

I can give you some common problems with start-up issues though: You'll have to determie which set of switches is your zero-position switch. There's 3 switches (except for the highest numbered score reel which will only have 2) - the zero position is open on 1-9 and closes at 0. That switch will either be in the center or the right side switch. One of the other switches gets signalled to score and the last switch on the left is always open except at 9 when it closes to tell the upstream score reel to close. All score reels have to have their zero position switches clean and adjusted to tell the score motor they're all reset. If not, the score motor will keep running forever. The best thing to do is take one score reel out of the game (except the one on your right) and manually depress the coil pluger to advance the score reel oe positio at a time. Check each score reel to see how they're set. That gives you an idea of what is right.

There's also switches on the score motor which reset the score reels at game start-up. These are located o the 1st level of score motor position no. 1. These switches are usually 1a, 2a, 3a, etc.. There's usally a card stapled to the side of the cabinet above the score motor tellig you position of switches and what they do.

I wouldn't clean and adjust any extra switches or contacts unless it's associated with your problem until you have done this for awhile. You may cause more problems than you started with.

Have fun

Oops, that link is no good. Search Pinside EM hangout - Steve Fury (member) score reels - for that link

That's how you learn - just jump right in. Usually cleaning your parts good and re-assembling will do the trick. Just remember how it goes back together and you're home free.

I just read your update and if it's adding credits when you start a game instead of subtracting credits (which is normal) there may be a problem in the circuitry tied to the knocker. When you start a game does the knocker switch close (at the bottom of the credit unit) and add a credit to the credit unit? - you can have someone else start a game while you're in the back of the head watching the bottom of your credit unit to see if that switch closes. If so, you probably have a normally open switch in that circuit causing that. That's where you'll need a schematic.

As far as not going to game over check your game over relay. That may be a trip relay on that era of game - I don't have a Mibs so I don't know.

some useful videos on how to r&r decagon score reels...

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/good-youtube-vid-for-decagon-score-reels

I haven't read through all the fine posts in this thread in detail yet, but at quick glance, the outhole switch is bent too far over, and looks to be stuck behind the ball kicker arm, such that the switch will likely be closed. That will cause the game to continuously try and kick the ball out. That switch will need to be put in the right place and adjusted (it may just have slipped to the side and got bent/stuck like that).

Oh, and on the score reel, that's not a broken switch, that's the end-of-stroke (EOS) switch for the coil there. When the coil pulls the plunger in, the little arm hits the lower switch, opening it up, which cuts off the power to the coil, and a spring pulls the plunger back (the reel advances one in the process). The top blade is shorter than the bottom blade so the little arm can pass by.

That switch should be normally closed though, and then open when the plunger is near the full stroke. Looks like it might be open currently, which will prevent the coil (and score reel) from working.

Relay bank, score motor, ball return relay all look OK from the pictures, so not sure what you might be seeing there.

Hi, Stringer,

Here's the thread where the guys helped me get my Mibs up and running. I can't recall what all is in it, but some of the advice/pics may help you. If there's anything you need, PM me and I will help as much as I can.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-gottlieb-mibs-startup-help

I overlooked that - thanks dirtflipper. If he fixes that broken blade, that will help a lot.

Mibs Schematics - hard to find original but I have one - $10 plus postage if anyone interested. Pm me. Thanks

Sorry for hi-jack!

Some good hardware stores carry them or Pbr has them too. > http://www.pbresource.com/news/gtb-a1058.jpg +

That outhole switch has been forced out of position (stuck closed) hasn't it? I didn't catch that either.

Check the trough switch. Sounds like it's stuck closed to me.

Hi Stringer welcome to the forum. I have heard good things about the MIBS. PM me your email address if you need a schematic.

That's an end of stroke switch on your score reel. If you are wondering what an EOS switch is for, here is a thread and animation I made:
http://www.pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-is-an-end-of-stroke-switch-find-out-cool-animation

Here are links to a couple score reel animations I made. Both will be different from yours, but they all work basically the same and you might get a better idea about the theory of their function:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-score-reel-operation-animation
http://forum-img.pinside.com/pinball/forum/?bb_attachments=299351&bbat=32588&inline&fullsize

There are also some videos you may find useful on my youtube page. Videos which explain flipper circuits, how to clean contacts and reset animation explanations on later model EM's (Among other things). Although the reset animations are different than your specific game, the Williams reset may give you an example of how schematics flow (in general) as an aid to follow your own:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SirSteveFury

When I first got my Spirit of 76 I had not worked on any coin op equipment in almost 40 years. I had lost a lot of my schematic reading skills (I used to be quite good at it). I scanned a copy of my original so I could make marks on it.
For example if I had a problem with startup I would find the start button first pulls in the AX relay, which has a large number of contacts which I found it REALLY hard to follow around the schematic.

So using the scan I'd start from the top of the schematic and work my way down on the scan and mark every contact I could find belonging to the AX relay. I found the Start relay pulls in so I'd mark all those contacts too.
That procedure was a bit tedious and time consuming but I was able to resolve a lot of issues myself and re-learn how the flow of schematic reading goes... and now I no longer need to go around marking things. I'm an old fuddy duddy and not as sharp as I used to be but a lot has come back because I did those tedious time consuming things.

The 'S' relay with two tabs bridged to one wire is fine.

To be clear, the 'trough' switch is the one the ball rolls over on its way to the plunger.
The 'outhole' switch is the one that was bent way over and needs to be put back in shape. It should be normally open, and then close when the ball rests in the outhole (which will trigger the score motor running and eventually kick the ball out, rolling it over the trough switch, and landing in front of the plunger).
When the trough switch closes, the ball count unit should advance one count.

Those dangling plugs and taped wire won't hurt anything; they are adjustment plugs to set which ball rack count scores. Since they're all unplugged right now, getting balls accumulated in the ball rack won't do much, but the game's not that far yet.

The thing to focus on right now is the score motor running continuously. The Start relaying tripping will set things in motion, go through reset, and then the Control Bank should reset, stopping everything.

One thing to check is the SB armature switch. This is the switch blade that's tucked underneath the Control Bank (below where the SB relay trips). The SB armature plate has a little dot on it that the switch tip should ride on, which is what controls it opening and closing. The switch needs to close when SB trips to allow the Control Bank to reset. This resets SB (and all the other relays there), which opens the switch again and keeps the Control Bank from continually firing every time the score motor runs.

But, need to take the start up sequence one thing at a time, from power up, to getting the S relay to fire. If the game is powering up and the score motor starts running right away, then need to track that down first.

I think you can see an example of the outhole switch at the bottom of this picture:

http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1412&picno=27340&zoom=1

It should be flat against the playfield, and the tip should come into contact with the ball when the ball lands in the outhole, which presses the switch down, closing it. With no ball in the outhole, the switch should be open.

Coils that start firing randomly and rapidly are an indication of a switch that's gapped to closely and is bouncing closed/open, or a switch that's gapped closed and a score motor switch is in the logic path and is pulsing. If the coil firing is in time with the score motor running, that's a clue.

Might want see why this is catawampus.

Mibs_bank_relays.JPG

I like to begin at the beginning. Per your start up sequence, your S relay isn't pulling in correctly and you are not getting past step one.

I used to own a MIBs, and unfortunately, I didn't make a copy of the schematic prior to selling it. I do have a Funland schematic from that era. Hopefully they are close. The following switched need to be closed to pull in the S relay:
Anti Cheat Switch
SB Armature ****
Replay Button
Motor 1C **** (Normally closed on the motor)
Zero Position Replay **** (need credits on the reel or it set to free play at least)
Zero Position Ball count unit (may or may not be required for your game? seems odd)
W NC switch on the third chute relay (May or may not have this one too)

The ones with the **** are, IMO the likely suspects.

Also, don't worry too much about the NC switch on the score reel for now. They ensure that you get a full stroke, but in reality they don't do a whole lot as you usually get a full stroke regardless. Many many games have these broken off and nobody can tell.

I hope these pics help...

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

Hi just signed up for this forum. I am also in the process of restoring a 1975 Spirit of 76 EM pinball machine.

I have tracked many of my issues down to the AX relay. What I think has happened is that at some point the relay has been played with and the switches are not in the right slots. Does somebody have a working machine that they could pass along some pictures of how the switches should look when properly aligned?

I have schematics coming but I will then have to learn to read them etc. and a picture might save me hours of time.

Thank you!!

e-mail me at [email protected] or post here.

Dagmore, start a new thread with your machine in the title, it'll get more exposure that way.

Yup, and a few of us have So76's.

If you open a new thread then me & others will help you when we can.

Like everyone else here, you sure are a nice fellow Steve!

I've got a MIBS and it seemed to be working just fine. Just recently it gives me 500 points when it switches from ball 2 to ball 3. At times, right when the game starts, it gives me 500 points for no reason. None of the 500 rollover switches are activated during that time either. Any ideas as to what is up?