AC/DC (LE)
Stern, 2012
AC/DC (Premium)
Stern, 2012I am loving this game but the SDTM stuff is killing me! I have the game set exactly level left to right and have tried a few different pitch settings, but no matter how the pitch is set, I continue to get center drains from perfect bell shots.
So I guess I need to change the side to side level away from plumb. Any suggestions for tilting to left or right and by how much? I plan to experiment, but if some of you have figured it out already, it would save me some aggravation.
If all leveling attemps fail and/or you want a quick fix, I've heard of some people using a wider rubber post sleeve IIRC.
Perhaps something like this 7/8" from PBL? (Not sure but hey, it's a 55 cent investment 
.)
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&mode=search&search_in=all&search_str=pbl_23-6552-1
Quoted from flashburn:If it's level, then it shouldn't do this. It's about as simple as it gets.
Wrong.
It *will* do that. But obviously not all the time. Maybe 15%?
It is as level left to right as it can possibly get. I used a torpedo level on the playfield aligning it with the bottom edge of the lower playfield window (level on the wood) and at the top edge of the playfield against the metal rail. I swapped the level end for end to make sure it was totally level. I was moving the leg levers in one sixth turn increments until it was totally even top and bottom.
I also checked the level at the bottom of the cabinet front and rear. It was level there also so the playfield is sitting level in the cabinet. Perfectly level is not working for my game. So now it is time to make it intentionally unlevel to reduce the STDM balls. I am thinking maybe just a slight lean to left would be best. That way the ball would be more likely to tap the post with the mini rubber ring and then kick over to the right flipper.
Pitch is now set with the bubble just edging through the top line ( more steep than centered bubble). It did not drain any less with pitch centered or tocuhing lower line, but it is faster plus easier to catch balls with it steeper.
Quoted from RacerRik:I have the game set exactly level left to right and have tried a few different pitch settings, but no matter how the pitch is set, I continue to get center drains from perfect bell shots.
What tools are you using to determine pitch and level? Stern's factory bubbles can be off.
(edit: oops. Advice below is encouraged even more now)
I've recently become a big fan of the Sears $25 level. It does pitch and level to 1 tenth of a degree. Plenty close enough for pinball.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digital-torpedo-level/p-00948295000P
Is this a Pro or Prem/LE? I have a Prem and it rarely drains from the bell...the ball usually gets hit back by the swinging bell and just kinda naturally comes back toward the right....if it comes back down the bell lane to the left it will bounce off the post rubber and veer right.
Quoted from RobT:Wrong.
It *will* do that. But obviously not all the time. Maybe 15%?
If you get a good clean shot on the bell, the ball goes straight in hits the bell and the zooms back straight down center drain. I would estimate a good 80% of the time. It is so likely to drain STDM that shooting the bell is something you have to avoid unless you are in multiball with balls to spare or the ball save light is still on. That takes a lot of the fun out of the bell shot.
I do get a fair amount of balls coming out of the pops that go STDM also, but usually that is just after you launch the ball so the ball save is still lit.
Quoted from Rarehero:Is this a Pro or Prem/LE? I have a Prem and it rarely drains from the bell...the ball usually gets hit back by the swinging bell and just kinda naturally comes back toward the right....if it comes back down the bell lane to the left it will bounce off the post rubber and veer right.
Yea. I actually see a lot of right outlane drains from the bell as well 
. Acdc is a frustrating game
Quoted from RobT:Wrong.
It *will* do that. But obviously not all the time. Maybe 15%?
If you say so. Mine is perfectly level and it's happened maybe 5% of the time. If that. I'm talking about a perfect shot back and forth. I have had the ball go from the back scoop and SDTM if it didn't come in contact with the bell though.
Quoted from Rarehero:Is this a Pro or Prem/LE? I have a Prem and it rarely drains from the bell...the ball usually gets hit back by the swinging bell and just kinda naturally comes back toward the right....if it comes back down the bell lane to the left it will bounce off the post rubber and veer right.
This a Premium with swinging bell.
Quoted from RacerRik:If you get a good clean shot on the bell, the ball goes straight in hits the bell and the zooms back straight down center drain. I would estimate a good 80% of the time. It is so likely to drain STDM that shooting the bell is something you have to avoid unless you are in multiball with balls to spare or the ball save light is still on. That takes a lot of the fun out of the bell shot.
I do get a fair amount of balls coming out of the pops that go STDM also, but usually that is just after you launch the ball so the ball save is still lit.
80% SDTM drains from the bell would be infuriating.
I'd try doing one of the post mods mentioned by NM above.
Quoted from flashburn:If you say so. Mine is perfectly level and it's happened maybe 5% of the time. If that. I'm talking about a perfect shot back and forth. I have had the ball go from the back scoop and SDTM if it didn't come in contact with the bell though.
More power to you!
I think it would be awesome if I only got 5% SDTM from the bell.
The bell is a notorious high risk shot on AC/DC, so I'm really surprised to hear you say that you are only getting 5% drains from the bell. I'd expect to see some high scores from you! 
Quoted from RobT:More power to you!
I think it would be awesome if I only got 5% SDTM from the bell.
The bell is a notorious high risk shot on AC/DC, so I'm really surprised to hear you say that you are only getting 5% drains from the bell. I'd expect to see some high scores from you!
I've seen plenty of center drains from the bell, just not from clean hits. It's definitely a risky shot, doesn't change that. I've probably way more drains from the cannon on the AC/DC targets. They are both risky shots. Hell, anything that isn't a ramp or an orbit is risky.
Quoted from RobT:I think it would be awesome if I only got 5% SDTM from the bell.
Im at less then 5% SDTM drains from the when the ball exits from the pops, Maybe like 2%. On bell shots from the right flipper its maybe 5-10% but its a risk reward shot so you need to only take shots at it when its safe. Left flipper is very safe but a much tighter shot. Cannon hardly get any SDTM drains. A post mod is highly recommended. The kind of post that will hold a cliffy colored sleeve is best. I have a red one on my game & its much better then the post Stern provided.
Quoted from RobT:80% SDTM drains from the bell would be infuriating.
I'd try doing one of the post mods mentioned by NM above.
Yes it is very frustrating! I don't want to mod the game with a non-standard post if simply leveling it a bit different fixes the problem. But if I can't reduce the center drains with level, I may resort to that.
I suspect that the people who are not getting bell drains actually have their game slightly off level - I just wish I knew which way they were off level so I don't have to experiment as much!
Quoted from RacerRik:Yes it is very frustrating! I don't want to mod the game witha non-standard post if simply leveling ti a bit different fixes the problem. But if I can't reduce the center drains with level, I may resort to that.
I suspect that the people who are not getting bell drains actually have their game slightly off level - I just wish I knew which way they were off level so I don't have to experiment as much!
Nope sorry, mine is definitely level. I've done it with both an iPhone (which I don't trust) and an actual digital Craftsman level. Maybe drains are closer to 10%, but I'm used to nudging on the return just as a habit, so it's hard to say, but I've watched plenty of other people play my game as well that don't nudge.
Quoted from flashburn:I've seen plenty of center drains from the bell, just not from clean hits. It's definitely a risky shot, doesn't change that. I've probably way more drains from the cannon on the AC/DC targets. They are both risky shots. Hell, anything that isn't a ramp or an orbit is risky.
To me a high risk shot is one that you take and if you mess up it is likely to drain. This one drains with what would be considered an absolute perfect shot. That makes it frustrating....
Quoted from flashburn:Nope sorry, mine is definitely level. I've done it with both an iPhone (which I don't trust) and an actual digital Craftsman level. Maybe drains are closer to 10%, but I'm used to nudging on the return just as a habit, so it's hard to say, but I've watched plenty of other people play my game as well that don't nudge.
So where did you check level on your game? Maybe I need a different reference point?
Quoted from RacerRik:Yes it is very frustrating! I don't want to mod the game with a non-standard post if simply leveling it a bit different fixes the problem.
Leveling it properly will only cut it down some. A post is the best way to go & hardly a major mod & can be reversed in about 5 mins.
Quoted from smassa:Hard to see but you can see the cliffy post there and it looks & plays much better.
I see it and it looks like it belongs there! What kind of metal post did you use and where did you get it?
I'm getting the same, RacerRik, and I also used a digital torpedo level. A really solid shot to the bell from the right flipper frequently ends in disaster. I have taken to a hard side nudge and conceding the subsequent tilt warning(s). If you figure something out please let me know.
Quoted from RacerRik:So where did you check level on your game? Maybe I need a different reference point?
Top, center, bottom.
Quoted from RacerRik:To me a high risk shot is one that you take and if you mess up it is likely to drain. This one drains with what would be considered an absolute perfect shot. That makes it frustrating....
Yup. High risk shots should be tough shots that missing would cause a drain. Shots that are successful which still drain frequently is bad design.
If anyone could take a picture of the posts they've changed, it would be greatly appreciated. Or posting the pitch you're playing at. I want to know what I should be doing when this arrives.
Quoted from Erik:I'm getting the same, RacerRik, and I also used a digital torpedo level. A really solid shot to the bell from the right flipper frequently ends in disaster. I have taken to a hard side nudge and conceding the subsequent tilt warning(s). If you figure something out please let me know.
I have nudged and saved it some times, but there are not enough tilt warnings to make it to 3X!!!
Quoted from flashburn:Top, center, bottom.
Could you be more specific please? Ie, What did you align the level with on the playfield at the top, center and bottom?
Quoted from RacerRik:I see it and it looks like it belongs there! What kind of metal post did you use and where did you get it?
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=323
Something like this should work with a cliffy post. You'll need to order a tiny screw for the top too.
Quoted from smassa:http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=323
Something like this should work with a cliffy post. You'll need to order a tiny screw for the top too.
Is that the one you used? I ask because there are different thread diameters on posts and that one is 10-32 which is the large size. I do not want to make the hole any bigger so that I can go back to the stock post with no trace of modifying the playfield.
Quoted from royce6135:high risk shots can also be ones that drain if you hit them perfectly otherwise they wouldn't be high risk...
Well, if that is the definition of high risk, then the designer obviously did not want you to shoot at the shot. And I think Steve did intend for people to repeatedly shoot at this shot. Mine is so bad, that only today (after about 250 games since last Thursday) was I able to get 3X lit. If I go for 3X, the ball goes STDM so often it is impossible to get there.
It would be nice if there was a very short ball save like on T2 skull shot. You make the shot and it does not penalize you. You only get nicked if you don't make the shot clean.
these are the things that infuriated me about this game Rik! I always put cliffys post sleeves on my games, they bounce a lot more. I have played probably six different acdc's and some of them drain constantly and some of them never do. Its weird. Chad's constantly drained, whereras sealclubbers does not. The ac/dc in lawrence at the replay lounge does not. weird.
Quoted from NathanP:these are the things that infuriated me about this game Rik! I always put cliffys post sleeves on my games, they bounce a lot more.
I have some Cliffy post sleeves - just gotta get a post that they will work on.
Quoted from RacerRik:Is that the one you used? I ask because there are different thread diameters on posts and that one is 10-32 which is the large size. I do not want to make the hole any bigger so that I can go back to the stock post with no trace of modifying the playfield.
Yes that will fit perfectly....just checked my past pinball life orders.
Quoted from phishrace:What tools are you using to determine pitch and level? Stern's factory bubbles can be off.
(edit: oops. Advice below is encouraged even more now)
I've recently become a big fan of the Sears $25 level. It does pitch and level to 1 tenth of a degree. Plenty close enough for pinball.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digital-torpedo-level/p-00948295000P
I bought this over the weekend. What an amazing device! I just like to know things are in the right order for sure.
Any time you shoot a non-returnable center shot you run the risk of a sdtm. It was like this on afm, t2, MM, MB, tron, sm, xmen, and many more. I watched a guy who was very good play a ACDC this weekend and saw him shoot the bell, but he only did it during multiball or on accident. 2x playfield aint worth jack on single ball but its worth a lot on multiball.
Quoted from smassa:Yes that will fit perfectly....just checked my past pinball life orders.
Thanks! I will put one on next next PBL order.
Quoted from smassa:Your welcome.....no get ready to enjoy the best game ever..... !!!!
Please don't take me wrong with this thread. I absolutely love the game! I am just trying to make it the best it can be. And the center bell drains do detract from the fun a bit.
I already nudge it to death! The legs are probably gonna fall of one of these days from all the nudging, but that bell shot does not seem to respond much to nudging up at the bell. It comes zooming down STDM and trying to nudge the game there is almost hopeless because it is smack in the center of the flippers. When it does that, sometimes I can nudge it hard enough to save it, but not without a tilt warning.
So are you saying you can nudge up at the bell to prevent STDM? If so, I will try that some more, but so far it does not seem to have any effect. If it misses the post on the left, it is a home run, outa the game!
I've experienced what you're going through as well. I have a torpedo level, and had it on the PF to set the game. A local champ winner levels all his games like they do at tournaments; bubble level on the glass, at the lockdown bar, back of the PF, and top of the back glass.
Just for fun, try it and let me know how your pin plays.
I personally think the torpedo on the PF would be more accurate but I use the bubble level now instead.
ACDC was my first pin, but I believe it's even more crucial than most to have dialed in perfectly.
There have been times when I'm ready to blow a gasket. A small tweak here or there, and the pin feels starts to play absolutely perfectly.
I have mine set at 6.8deg pitch.
Missed shots to the bell will sdtm drain about 15% of the time. But they're missed shots!
Successful shots are about 5% without nudging.
From the pops, 2%
And I'm with smassa, once you get it ironed out, prepare to experience the 2nd best pin of all time 
Quoted from Eskaybee:And I'm with smassa, once you get it ironed out, prepare to experience the 2nd best pin of all time
That is not what he said! So of course, you have an opinion about what the best pin is I guess? 
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