How do they not have enough money by now just to pony up? I don't get it.

These passing of the hat campaigns start to get embarrassing.

This is so pathetic. WTF happened to companies managing their own risk vs going to the begging trough.

I can see the licensing costs being a concern.
But; yeah... not backing this one because I'd rather spend money on real pinball.

Why not just start a pre-order deal?

Looks like the AC/DC Pro not LE/Premium...

Physics upgrade promise is the only reason I'm backing. Anything to encourage TPA to update their floaty, pong-like physics, with faux-drop catches and too easy ramp shots. Don't get me wrong, I'm a TPA fan, but Pro Pinball's physics and VP10 physics are so much more realistic.

If Farsight is serious about research and development toward a significantly upgraded physics engine (including backspin, and possibly "air balls" of which there are plenty on fast modern Stern tables), I'll gladly shoulder a few bucks worth of the risk for them.

Pinball is all about ball and flipper physics. Hope they choose to make this priority number one, and hold off on things like dynamic lighting for iPad, etc.

The price tag is huge, but I'm totally behind Farsight on these projects. The partnership moving forward with Stern appears to show free licencing into a digital platform where possible (ST, GB) and with access to digital models Farsight should be able to create electronic tables much faster.

It is super strange. The partnership at Stern would suggest that this process would be easier/cheaper for the consumer, but maybe I'm misguided.

So you'll note that the AC/DC license was acquired before Pinball Arcade and Stern entered a partnership. My guess is that the Stern AC/DC license does NOT cover digital recreations so Pinball Arcade has to go and contact AC/DC just like Stern did, and pay big bucks.

I bet Stern, going forward, has built into all their licensing agreements that digital recreations are included in the physical table licenses. But that probably happened AFTER the AC/DC licenses were acquired. So going forward it will be one license from Stern, and Pinball arcade doesn't have to kickstart. But for licenses acquired pre-agreement, Pinball Arcade still needs to do licensing separate.

And jeez, with all the licensing that happens, there's no way they could pay $125,000 out of pocket, plus probably another $250K + for development, and come out on top. They're doing fan-subsidized development, so people who really want these games are essentially paying more. And I think that's ok in my book.

Stern AC/DC License was acquired before Pinball arcade was even an App...

You may be right on the new licensing agreement. But that doesn't mean I'm not surprised by it. They'll never reveal specifics (at least I can't see it happening), and that's fine.

Also, I wonder what difference the Premium vs LE will have from a digital standpoint (since you can pledge and get an LE?).

It's just an advertising gimmick.

They put up a Kickstarter, it comes up more in the search engines, people talk about it on the forums, it comes up more in the search engines, people link to in on Facebook, it comes up more in the search engines, it gets a Spotlight on Kickstarter, it comes up more in the search engines.....

I supported, then backed out of the first two kickstarter Pinball Arcade Campaigns. Usually with Kickstarter most give some sort of incentive to support their project, and not have the same benefits and pay more. Sure you're making sure they get the funding they need. But with a Stern partnership, and a roadmap already planned out, I'm going to guess Stern and Farsight will not let this fail if they haven't reached their goal by the end.

So while I'm extremely excited about this, I have no worries that it won't meet the goal, so I'll just purchase this when it comes out.

Hell, even if they would throw in a brand new shinny pinball ball, I bet they'd get more interest in support from people. To us, I'm sure we'd shrug our shoulders, but to others who've never actually held a pinball in their hand, they'd eat it up. I know I did they first time I got a pinball that was included in a computer game back in the early 90's. Can't remember what that was called now.

Plus it's less out of their own pockets.

And the risk free product development funding rolls on. They can GFT.

They told us the license is no longer valid, so there would'nt be no new code.
Now, there is an add for the vpin table on their facebook page?

I feel.... strange.....

Edit: if the kickstarter campaign would include a mindfu..ing final code update, i would be in.

Where's the tier to get the Aurich improvements?

Is this true? My understanding was that donating money in the kickstarter did not give you credit towards the table itself when it was launched.

Where do you come up with the $250K? If this is true then there are a lot of VP table builders that should quit their job and do this full time. TPA tables are nice but I've seen equally as nice tables (and even some nicer) in the VP world.

I don't get this. VP10 physics are good but I still feel TPA is better physics wise. VP10 lost me with their "spin" feature that everyone wants to overdue. I've never played a real table that has the ball curving around the table when it hits objects. The spin VP10 gives a game makes it feel as though every colidable object on the table is a Tron Recognizer Spinning Disk. Take 95% of the "spin" out of the ball in VP10 gets you much closer.

$125K per year per software developer, I assume 4 developers and 6 months to create a table (not including tax withholdings and benefits for those people). They operate out of California which has high salary requirements. As a software engineer I'm pretty confident in that number.

They are not creating from-scratch tables they are working in an engine that works cross platform (the engine itself likely needs enhancements for every table), so there's a ton of platform-specific QA that needs to happen. It's not just recreating the table design and post/mech/light placements.

Interesting. May have to do this now. I stopped building VP tables (for countless reasons) but still enjoy VP and like backing those still developing things.

Guess my assumption would be they built a platform like VP so most of your development is up front and adding new tables requires minor changes. You can easily emulate ROMS, especially if you have approval to do so. I figured the most challenging part for each table is the 3D models for everything which I'm going to assume is farmed out. If they are starting from scratch for every table, I'd argue they are doing things wrong and have some major opportunities to improve their OPEX. I digress though to not take things to far off track.

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Still cheaper than the real deal if you can't afford or acquire one. I won't help with the kick starter, but I will pay for the game.

So is every Stern TPA table going to have a Kickstarter for the license then? I sure hope people don't get bored with that.

Hope they make the physics right this time. Only reason I'm backing also.

I would've thought Stern'd be the ones ponying up for any licensing given they paid for it with the original run of machines (and this is essentially an extension of that). Not sure if I'll back, especially considering whilst I don't mind AC/DC, I don't love it.

We still haven't got the promised version "whatever" physics across the board for existing tables we were promised when it was introduced around Xenon (for iOS). It's annoying as hell.

Good news. VP and FP have been recreating these tables for years. Glad to see official versions.

ACDCCabView_(resized).png

TPA promised a cabinet mode & legit portrait mode YEARS ago.

All they get from me are deez nuts

This does look cool though I must say!

The REAL thread is here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-officially-partners-with-farsight-studios

Cool.....

So is this Kickstarter going to be only for the ACDC license and others moving forward will not have to be backed? If they are currently producing a certain game they have the license already so hopefully the license also covers the digitizing aspect for this app. I'll back it knowing I'll get a copy when released.

85vett - I totally respect your take on TPA vs. VP10 physics, especially as an "author." Consider me a fan of your work!

I didn't mean to come across as a TPA basher. I love TPA. Things like flick-passes and cradle separations are more realistic in TPA than VP10. In some ways, TPA really gets flipper physics and ball physics right.

It's a matter of taste, but TPA physics feel really "algorhythmic" to me: floaty and predictable. Who said it -- Harry Williams? "The Ball is Wild!" The ball in TPA feels anything but.

I agree with you about VP10 physics: The ball spin is overdone. Hopefully VP devs will find a way to tune tables in such a way as to dial it back and reign it in, without losing the exciting "wild" aspect it introduces.

As far as curveballs go my experience matches yours -- I don't see them all that often in real pinball. Except for on newer, lightning fast Stern tables like Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, KISS, and ACDC. Curveball and airball city! It wasn't until I played new Sterns like these that I finally thought, "Oh -- so this is what the new VP10 ball physics is attempting to emulate!" You're right though -- when you see curveballs happening on a VP10 EM emulation, the affect appears overdone and out of place.

I'm excited to see what Stern Pinball Arcade brings to the table in terms of ball and flipper physics! I'm still amazed by Pro Pinball's physics. Zaccaria's aren't half bad either.

So here is what I am seeing: Star Trek (pro and premium), Starship Troopers, and Mary Shelly's Frankenstein are the launch tables. GB is confirmed but not a launch table. AC/DC is a launch table if they get funding. AC/DC is $125k for the license alone. More than TAF or T2.

Thought starship and msf were already out on tpa pc version?

Yes they are.

I am so happy about this, almost cannot believe it.

Fantastic!

I'd really hope to see a cabinet version of this to play on my vpin or I'll just continue playing the VP versions.
Spike support will be interesting since this is not available in VP.

Does pinball arcade have a cabinet version (aside from the work around version that was floating around the forums).

Isn't this because AC/DC's licensing fees are astronomical? And isn't that the reason we'll never see a VE of AC/DC?

Also, do any of the people in this thread that are complaining about the Kickstarter even PLAY TPA? Seems like yawl are the same people that look down their noses at virtual pins. Don't worry about the KS if you're not buying in.

8k

100k to go!
Camon we can do this!!

p.s. AC/DC are playing here in Lisbon on Saturday... and I'm going!

Enjoy the concert, hassanchop.

I was going to the Atlanta show until it was canceled. Now gotta wait for Axl and his beat up voice.

I'll repost my comment from Stern's Facebook post about this...

It's straight up wrong that these Kickstarters exist. Alliance Media Holdings makes $60 million in sales per year, THEY CAN ABSORB THE LICENSING RISK ON THEIR OWN. When Stern makes a new pinball machine they don't come out trying to fleece us into taking their risk for them. Maybe I wouldn't mind if Farsight's products were actually good, but The Pinball Arcade is a glitchy mess, and the fact that they continue to ask for hundreds of thousands of dollars from fans (in addition to the sales that this funding will bring them) is incredibly disrespectful to anyone who supports their products.

Seriously, DON'T give your money for this crap. Farsight can and should be paying for it.