Not for large amounts. Gifts are not foolproof and can be charged back.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

Cash is king. For small amouts, paypal is ok since you won't be out very much if something does go wrong.

I would do cash/bank check only with strangers. /dinosaur

I believe the standard answer is to still never do it. Even if sent as a gift, you're on the hook if the buyer pays through paypal with a credit card instead of through their paypal funds and then does a charge back on the card. That charge back goes through paypal and they're gonna want that money back from the seller.

The most recent discussion on Paypal went 97 posts on this very subject. There is some great info in it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-using-paypal-to-pay-for-machines-frowned-upon

I wonder if merging the threads would be beneficial?

Don't do it....you're exposure is HUGE! Look at it this way-if someone wants what you're selling badly enough, then THEY can get a cash advance from PP to pay YOU. Any other method through PayPal will make you regret it. Bottom line: PP is great for potentially dishonest buyers and is terrible for honest sellers. Remember that and you'll be fine.

I have never had issues with paypal and trusted people I know or have a long lasting rep. Personally I like paypal for a coupld hundred deposit and then CASH upon pickup.

also, you ready to make me a deal on that SC yet Billy?

Ill bring cash

I am at the point where i am only buying if I can inspect a game first. So I can carry cash and hopefully make a deal

If was selling a game, the same applies, I would rather you inspect the game and be happy with it than trust my photos and shipping companys

Cash is king. No chance of getting screwed.

yep. if you are a seller and accept paypal for big items, the buyer wins the battle.
buyer can make a false claim and put the seller in a difficult situation, esp if the buyer won't ship back and its 2000 miles away (yes, happened to me). the buyer can also keep the game and get their money back.
the buyer said through paypal, i had to come get the game, they would not ship back. wouldnt allow a shipper to pick up from them.
what a scam.
my case was an expensive video game and buyer stated monitor caught on fire 2 weeks after he had it, even though has been playing it daily till that point. . i asked for pictures of the issue, he wouldnt send me any. i said id ship him a new monitor for free and tell him how to install or find someone near him to install for him. he said no.

to my knowledge, if someone gifts you the money, they can not do a charge back.
if its happened to anyone here please do tell bcuz im curious. i dont think there is even a "refund" option on paypal if it is gifted.
you can accept a check, wait for it to clear, then ship a game. or a postal money order (no other type of money order).
postal only, take it to post office and verify the serial number to see if its legit.
if its in person sale., cash only though.

I have used this method for buying machines and would do the same if I ever sell one.

As far as mods/parts purchases, PayPal "goods" works best overall. As a seller I find that it gives the buyer assurances that the transaction will go well. It also makes it easy for me to ship using the built in shipping tools in PayPal; simply print label and stick in mail box. The fee is much less than my time is worth to go to the post office. When a seller wants PayPal "gift" for payment, as a buyer it makes me wonder about the transaction.

I have used paypal to buy (2) / sell (4) times and haven't had issues. I'd go so far as to call it an acceptable payment option. In situations where you pay for a game and are having it shipped - you might be used to sending a cashiers check or money order. About three years ago electronic transfers became pretty popular and I have had the chance to use try that five times now. Banks charge a fee and this option has lost its luster in my eyes. Up steps Paypal - allows you do the same thing as sending a cashiers check / money order (requires a trip to the bank and mailbox) or electronic transfer (requires a trip to the bank), but from home in your pj's at any instant. Now if you are going to inspect the pin, you are expeced to carry cash.

This was discussed in detail in the last PayPal thread, linked above.
Vid says it best in post #23 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-using-paypal-to-pay-for-machines-frowned-upon#post-3127104

NOT TRUE

How many times does everyone have to tell you guys?

>>>>>>THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO SAFELY ACCEPT PAYPAL FOR PAYMENT. NONE

ok this was my first situation with paypal on a pinball machine accepting paypal. Buyer came to my house and inspected pinball machine and decides he wants it. Bank is closed so he cant get money out. Asks if he can use paypal and gift it as F&F. I say ok as long as i can watch you send it. ( he used my computer) I make sure he isnt paying with a credit card and used funds in his account to pay for it. I log in and see the money and accept it and deposit it into my bank account.

How can i be screwed on that transaction? I thought the only way to get a refund on a F&F gift is to reverse it with the credit card company. If he didnt use a CC he cant charge it back correct?

Simple, buyer sends an email to PayPus and says you are a very bad seller, the goods are faulty. PP will ALWAYS side with the buyer and you are screwed.

Just because there is no automatic option or box to tick means nothing as they ALWAYS side with the buyer.

Its a "gift" through friends and family there are no goods to be faulty. So thats not a worry, cant say bad item when there was no item to begin with. Also there is no "buyer" for paypal to side with.

Seriously, this can't be repeated enough, don't use paypal unless you want to get ripped off.

in my situation above how can one be ripped off? If it is possible i would like to know. I have read through all of vids guide and the only negative he states about F&F gift is that they can charge back with a CC. Well if i watched him send it to me and he did not fund it with a CC then according to vids guide i cant be ripped off correct?

This happens ALL THE TIME on Craigslist sales.

Often with a claim of "Unauthorized Activity", or the Paypal account was filled with funds from a stolen credit card number.

People think that F&F can't be charged back, but it happens 1000s of times a minute. Paypal will reverse anything, at any time, for any reason - there is no appeal process.

If you told them to send you the money as a "gift" then you will now be guilty of fraud and/or violating paypal terms of service by outright lying. This is because paypal will 1099 you for goods sold if they exceed a certain amount, and trying to circumvent that by selling goods under the guise of gift puts you at various other risks. This is something the buyer will be happy to let paypal know when he begins to scam you, after which paypal will very quickly convert your "gift" money transfer to a "goods" transfer.

In any other circumstance, as previously stated, the buyer can at anytime say the item you sold him isn't as described for any reason, even after using your item for many weeks, and you are now screwed. Even if you are able to get your pinball machine back you will still be out shipping costs, and you will have no idea if you even got the same table back. The scammer could have swapped dmd's, coils, who knows, and again their is nothing you can do about it.

I mean it's your money at the end of the day, if you want to gamble then go ahead.

^^^^ This says it all well. Good luck if you accept PayPus because it is only a matter of time before you get robbed.

Not "if" but "when".

No.

If someone pays you friends & family from an existing balance or bank account as Jdawg said, that money is good and irreversible. And no, Paypal is not going to 1099 you, say you avoided terms, any of that.

This is coming from someone who sends and receives hundreds of Paypal payments each year.

As the receiver of these funds you are not told how they are being financed.

Interac E-transfer.
Funds transferred into your account immediately. No holds etc. Max $3000 at a time in 24hr periods. Or more if your bank allows. Pickup upon final payment.

Not sure if you have it in the U.S. but it's great.

http://interac.ca/en/interac-e-transfer-consumer.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvtS6BRC8pcKnXIg_wBEiQAqtpiz9jqgzaTaMZVvdnN-AtDsE8v9bd0oivTNbRoBDoL4D0aAozD8P8HAQ

Paypal does indeed issue 1099s, I have been 1099'd by them. If anyone wants to circumvent that by lying and saying payments for goods are actually gifts, then it's your risk.

Cash only. When I buy or sell a pin. Unless its a distributor, then open to checks or wire when purchasing.

how can they 1099 someone if that someone already pays taxes and already claims it all on taxes (like i do)? that's the part i don't get. i claim any parts i sell as well.

CASH! CASH,and only CASH! anything else is B.S.

Cash keeps it friendly. I will accept check or wire transfer from a friend.

I will pay someone with PayPalif asked, but I don't accept it. I haven't been asked. In my experience, the seller dictates method of payment.

I guess I've been lucky. I mostly only do PayPal with people here on pinside and a few on rgp. A lot of people I've gotten to know and if I don't know them i look at their past history. Luckily I've had no problems at all and people I've bought from and sold to have been cool.

This exact situation happened to me. I was selling a backglass. The Buyer offered to pay with PayPal as a gift. He then backed out of the deal after paying and he notified PayPal when I wouldn't refund his money. He then falsely claimed that I forced him to pay as a gift. PayPal deducted the money out of my account and sided with him. Then they sent me an email threatening my account for accepting PayPal gift payments. In the end, I won because I read the PayPal terms and conditions and discovered that all claims can be settled via arbitration. Arbitration is VERY expensive (almost $1000) and PayPal will pay for it. When I sent them a letter stating I wanted them to pay $1000 to go to arbitration over my $100 claim, they refunded me the money and I kept the backglass. ANYTIME PAYPAL TAKES MONEY OUT OF YOUR ACCOUNT, SEND THEM A LETTER THAT YOU WANT ARBITRATION AND YOU WANT THEM TO PAY THE ARBITRATION FEES.

When PayPal first started it was great. Their slogan was "forever free" they made their coin on the interest that accumulated when people left $$ in their account. That was it... plus that & you earned cash when people signed up thru a link on your site. I made like $250 from that alone.
When ebay bought them the slogan changed to "forever fees", and they rape you for whatever they can get away with.

Cash. I've put a $100 deposit on a few games to hold for a couple days. Just to show I'm serious since I can't always pickup immediately. In those cases I did assume I may lose that money. Was doubtful but knew it was the risk. Last time I offered the seller said that was enough to hold a couple days...just the offer. But ultimately cash!

Well damn I didn't know about that arbitration clause I already lost the $306 from the fraudulent claim I had to deal with alas, but good to know for the future as I'll still use paypal for items that are less than $100.

LOL, never goona happen.
I have been offered 16k for WOOLY and laughed at that guy to. You dont sell a machine you build with your own blood sweat and tears, period! I do hope WOOLY somehow makes it to production one day so everyone can buy one. The new code is especially awesome!

What you have is a true LE.

I don't put much worth into one of 500 being a "LE".

Stay as cash only. If they are so keen to use Paypal then they can pay cash. My wife and I sold a car to someone who payed with Paypal. Turns out card was stolen. Long story short Paypal took the money back (within one month) referred us to the police, car was listed as stolen and we got it back 1 year later, the car was ruined. Cost us over $3,000 to repair and resell car.

Cash only.

I'll bet that was such a cool experience. I hope to see one of those games some day.

It was amazing, hard work, and a real bonding experience. I am a hard worker and I have never worked so hard (both mental and physical) in such a short time.

I would do it again next week! and I hope I get the invite when Scott/Frank need the next game assembled.

LMK if you are ever going to be in the Madison area and we can coordinate an night of playing and a few beverages.

That is a horrible thing to have happened to you. My commiserations. Some people just can't be told how PayPus simply isn't safe and, sadly, it will have to wait until they are ripped off themselves in one of the many and various ways that PayPus allows.

They will squeal like stuck pigs then don't worry!

PP sucks. They are not a financial institution. Bank transfer works great, PP, I won't touch. They can freeze your account or reverse a transaction without a court order. As a seller, it's the worst option. I had a guy beg me to use it, I declined. I asked him for a bank eamil transfer and he said he had PP money that he wanted to use. I ended up selling my game for a bit less but I'd rather feel the security of not getting ripped off.

I used PP again today for a pinball purchase. I don't see a problem, in spite of the warnings mentioned and second hand reports. Not saying there aren't dangers In the world but safe enough I recommend using PayPal. As long as you were treating deal as electronic bank transfer, all is well. If you wouldn't send electronic funds to someone because you don't trust they'll ship the goods, it is not a good idea to use PayPal either. If you want to try a machine out and later return it like a sweater...don't use electronic funds or paypal.

My earlier post quantifies my pinball machine sales and purchases using paypal. So I am not merely offering an opinion (questionable worthiness, maybe).

Not worthless, dangerous.

"I've been running this same stop sign every morning for the past 20 years. I've never had an accident or even a ticket. You never have to worry about stop signs." she said.

I still can't understand the aversion to using cash. It's legal, it's available (hopefully) and it's final. If you're buying a pin with PP or credit because of lack of liquidity, you shouldn't be in this hobby.

Except it is against the law to run the sign and it is universally considered a dangerous thing to do. Using pay pal is not only a common form of payment in today's commerce, it is universally accepted a legitamate transactional currency. pay pal is also highly regulated and it operates within a structured set of rules. If you follow the rules, there are no problems. Gifting money is not purchasing anything - there is no obligation of the receiver to do anything with the funds. No different than handing someone cash. There is no recourse once paying, so hand the money over at your own risk. Usually you have an accompanying email or documentation where you have agreed on a sale and it is smart to spell out that you will be arranging pickup some time in future. Pay pal gifting is in no ways like using a credit card. There you have all kinds of rights. It is not like using paypal regular where you are also offered protections. Gifting is a totally different animal. If you understand all that and feel comfortable proceeding, I'd suggest using it, otherwise skip it. I like the convenience and feel it is safe.

Unregulated (it's not a bank) and run by a random set of rules.

-

Try this with your next purchace:

Make a claim, no matter how outrageous, with Paypud.

80% chance they will rule in your favor.

They won't ask for any further proof, they won't ask any further questions, they simply rule and their decision is final.

-

Paypud is fine, until you get your ass reamed royally - then it's not.