(Topic ID: 251798)

Accepting Credit Cards on Location


By knockerlover

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 46 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by LTG
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 9 months ago

    Exploring the idea of accepting credit cards on location. What have you operators done that has worked for you?

    The way I see it, for larger locations a token machine that takes credit cards would possibly work. Or even better would be a kiosk card system though they can get expensive I would think.

    For smaller locations are there credit card readers that mount on the games? If so what systems have you used and will they work with traditional Bill acceptors also?

    #2 9 months ago

    A place I often go to has card readers on all the games that only read their custom cards (controlled by a raspberry pi) on all the coin doors. They sell cards and will top them up at the front. The machines also take coins the normal way. It is Blizzard Mountain Pinball, and I know the owner is sometimes on Pinside and might answer what software is used to do everything.

    #3 9 months ago

    Change machine with credit card would serve the cashless customers along with providing cash customers with quarters/tokens. That’s what’s on location at Boxcar arcade near me. I think it would be more expensive to put the special devices on each pin??

    I’m just using dbv on each pin at my brewery and don’t currently have a change machine

    #4 9 months ago

    I use DBV's on my newer pins and they also take coins. I also have Rowe bill changers that accept $1 - $20's at my locations. No credit card reader on my stuff and I have no plan to change over to credit cards at this time.

    #5 9 months ago
    Quoted from Coz:

    Change machine with credit card would serve the cashless customers along with providing cash customers with quarters/tokens. That’s what’s on location at Boxcar arcade near me. I think it would be more expensive to put the special devices on each pin??
    I’m just using dbv on each pin at my brewery and don’t currently have a change machine

    exactly what I did, except I put payrange on the change machine which is basically the same thing. You loose a percentage much like you would if you were processing credit cards, but its the same thing as putting them on each machine. Made it a lot easier making sure one device works correctly vs. 20 or more.

    I'll probably do a straight CC change machine next time since its more main stream. Problem is it's technically illegal to give change out through a change machine using a CC (which is why you only see token machines with CC's on them). At least that's what the standard change people told me when I was asking how to integrate payrange. The bigger change machines use MDB protocol with multiple hoppers, so I had to buy a special device. The majority are pulse, so it's fairly simple to setup.

    #6 9 months ago

    The only place where I've seen credit cards accepted is at an arcade using a swipe card system for all their games. There are kiosks that dispense/refill the swipe cards with credits. Conversely, another nearby arcade is still cash-based with change machines and an ATM.

    #7 9 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    Problem is it's technically illegal to give change out through a change machine using a CC (which is why you only see token machines with CC's on them). At least that's what the standard change people told me when they were I was trying to setup the payrange stuff.

    Interesting, I was not aware of this.

    #8 9 months ago

    Screw CC on games themselves...
    CC on change machine is groovy.

    #9 9 months ago
    Quoted from loren3233:

    Interesting, I was not aware of this.

    Boxcar bar+arcade uses a credit card change machine but their entire arcade runs on tokens. $1= 4 tokens

    #10 9 months ago

    card readers are the way to go but the kiosk costs to much unless you have a large great earning location to coincide. ticketless redemption as well. no ticket costs or jams.
    its great not having coin or bill jams, the number one reason a game is placed out of order.

    #11 9 months ago
    Quoted from silver_spinner:

    card readers are the way to go but the kiosk costs to much unless you have a large great earning location to coincide. ticketless redemption as well. no ticket costs or jams.
    its great not having coin or bill jams, the number one reason a game is placed out of order.

    I used to deal with annoying coin jams all the time. Then I started tossing away those troublesome plastic coin mechs at the first sign and replacing them with these
    http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_601_603&products_id=936
    Last month I had 2 jams, but it was due to a wpc box lid cuout not being big enough. I cut it out a little wider with a Dremel and haven't had a jam in 3 weeks.

    #12 9 months ago

    alternatively imonex carries those opto ones with no moving parts that are 100% jam proof. I just couldn't bring myself to pay $120 bucks per coin slot.

    1 week later
    #13 9 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    I used to deal with annoying coin jams all the time. Then I started tossing away those troublesome plastic coin mechs at the first sign and replacing them with these
    http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_601_603&products_id=936
    Last month I had 2 jams, but it was due to a wpc box lid cuout not being big enough. I cut it out a little wider with a Dremel and haven't had a jam in 3 weeks.

    if a canadian coin or magnetic token gets put in one the magnet grabs the coin and makes usa quarters just drop through to the coin return. thats not good.
    imonex plastic are the best for location, the ones you can open wider to accept both a quarter and a .984 if needed, or just usa quarter.
    They don't grab magnetic coins, so no jams unless someone puts paper, paper clips, or other non coins in there.
    Nothing is jam proof when people stick straws and other crazy items in the slots.

    #14 9 months ago
    Quoted from silver_spinner:

    if a canadian coin or magnetic token gets put in one the magnet grabs the coin and makes usa quarters just drop through to the coin return. thats not good.
    imonex plastic are the best for location, the ones you can open wider to accept both a quarter and a .984 if needed, or just usa quarter.
    They don't grab magnetic coins, so no jams unless someone puts paper, paper clips, or other non coins in there.
    Nothing is jam proof when people stick straws and other crazy items in the slots.

    if the wrong coin gets used, it gets sent back down the coin return. They sell that same coin mech in candian and tokens as well (on a different website). Yeah luckily I don't have deal with kids, only drunk people. Most are pretty respectful of the machines, So I don't see straws getting jammed down the coin chutes to often. It works really well, and jams aren't an issue for me anymore. I have used to have plastic ones in some arcade games (don't think they were imonex), and they jammed all the time.

    #15 9 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    if the wrong coin gets used, it gets sent back down the coin return. They sell that same coin mech in candian and tokens as well (on a different website). Yeah luckily I don't have deal with kids, only drunk people. Most are pretty respectful of the machines, So I don't see straws getting jammed down the coin chutes to often. It works really well, and jams aren't an issue for me anymore. I have used to have plastic ones in some arcade games (don't think they were imonex), and they jammed all the time.

    I've found imonex are the best. No moving parts and do not jam with canadian coins like was said previously. That's my biggest issue is someone puts a canadian in and it sticks to the magnet and then all the other coins just get jammed behind it. Real PITA.

    I have a payrange system and not really sure I'd recommend it. Depends on your location. It's a pretty steep up front cost so unless you have a high traffic location I'd probably stick with cash.

    Putting one on the changer is a good idea I haven't thought of. People do complain that I don't have it on every game but it's too cost prohibitive to do so.

    #16 9 months ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    Putting one on the changer is a good idea I haven't thought of. People do complain that I don't have it on every game but it's too cost prohibitive to do so.

    I believe taking a credit card payment for cash is illegal in the US, which I assume is why many places I’ve seen accept credit cards for tokens.

    -1
    #17 9 months ago

    I have seen many Pinball machines use PayRange.

    https://www.payrange.com

    #18 9 months ago
    Quoted from knockerlover:

    I believe taking a credit card payment for cash is illegal in the US, which I assume is why many places I’ve seen accept credit cards for tokens.

    Yeah but who is going to police that?

    #19 9 months ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    Yeah but who is going to police that?

    The location this would be going in has a very low risk tolerance.

    #20 9 months ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    That's my biggest issue is someone puts a canadian in and it sticks to the magnet and then all the other coins just get jammed behind it.

    Those shifty Canadians keep messing up peoples coin mechs! Guess I'm lucky I'm far away from Canada, so I don't have to worry about it.
    You got me curious now to see what will happen with this coin mech. Just need to find a Canadian coin.

    There are a lot of things that people do around me that are illegal, but unless someone dimes them out no-one cares (including the policing authorities)
    I have one brewery near me with no permit stickers on any of there machines, and they have like 20 machines that take coin drop.
    I have another place that plays music without a BMI license.
    There are 100's of places that have nintendos and playstations out for people to play in commercial locations, you technically need a license for that to. I can guarantee almost no-body does.

    #21 9 months ago

    I've found more and more lately I have zero cash on me. I've been caught multiple times showing up for my local pinball league nights and needing to borrow cash from another player. The march away from cash continues, so I'd think it would be wise for any operator to have alternatives to cash available.

    #22 9 months ago
    Quoted from knockerlover:

    I believe taking a credit card payment for cash is illegal in the US, which I assume is why many places I’ve seen accept credit cards for tokens.

    ATMs? Or is this different because it’s debt?

    #23 9 months ago
    Quoted from V8haha:

    ATMs? Or is this different because it’s debt?

    Yeah, that's pretty curious. ATMs are legal, but change machines with a debit/credit card setup isn't?

    https://www.gumball.com/collections/credit-card-change-machine

    #24 9 months ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Yeah, that's pretty curious. ATMs are legal, but change machines with a debit/credit card setup isn't?
    https://www.gumball.com/collections/credit-card-change-machine

    those are all token machines, not change machines.

    Might be the same reason your CC company usually charges you a higher interest rate when you withdrawl cash. Higher risk maybe?
    didn't press for specifics, I'll ask them next time.

    #25 9 months ago

    I ended up sending a note to American changer, here was their response about change machines that convert credit card to quarters.

    “ Thank you for coming to American Changer with your question. Unfortunately, if they are dispensing change, ATM banking regulations prohibit us from allowing a credit card reader on the machines.”

    Looks like the options are:

    -Convert to tokens and use a token change machine that accepts credit cards.
    -Convert to a card kiosk system that uses credit cards.
    -Install credit card readers on each game.

    The token route seems most cost effective for smaller locations.

    #26 9 months ago

    How hard is it to set up an ATM? Is there a monthly fee, straight %, WiFi/Ethernet capable or phone line only?

    Seems like if it is secure physically at the location an ATM is an option. The only dedicated pinball place has an ATM, but they don’t own it. They house it and get a split of some sort.

    #27 9 months ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    How hard is it to set up an ATM?

    Check in your area, companies do this. If you don't want your own.

    You do raise the risk of robbery and burglary. Any thief knows there is $3K to $5K in there.

    LTG : )

    #28 9 months ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    How hard is it to set up an ATM? Is there a monthly fee, straight %, WiFi/Ethernet capable or phone line only?

    It's pretty easy, cost is around 3500-4k. no monthly fee, just need to connect it via ethernet.
    They sent someone out to set it up and bolt it down as part of the total cost
    you are taxed on all transactions and surcharge is up to you.
    if you get anymore fees then this you need to find another ATM company. I use payment alliance international.
    don't buy a used ATM, because it probably won't have the up to date protocols.

    Biggest pain is keeping it filled and you have to have a descent amount of float, rarely have issues with them. Think I had a sensor get dirty, a keypad that needed a new master code (idk?), and update to EMV reader

    Payment Information
    Allpoint Surcharge Income 77 x $0.25
    Interchange Fee 379 x -$0.20
    Net Interchange Income $XXXX
    Surcharge Income $XXX x $3.00
    Total Income: $XXX

    #29 9 months ago
    Quoted from kermit24:

    I have seen many Pinball machines use PayRange.
    https://www.payrange.com

    down voting just because payrange is NOT worth it in my experience.

    Rarely used (even by those that specifically requested it for use), they take a % even after you by the equipment, they did in the past... share your data, and just a waste of time and resources.

    The #1 thing you can do as an operator is install DBVs but more important if you think lack of access to funds is the issue... then install an ATM and put it directly next to a change machine that takes all denominations and new/old style bills.

    You can make a cut on ATM fees to pay for the machine over time. You then also have easy access to change. Dealling with change is actually much easier than dealing with paper. (weigh coins to count them and bill counters kinds stink IME)

    #30 9 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    It's pretty easy, cost is around 3500-4k. no monthly fee, just need to connect it via ethernet.
    They sent someone out to set it up and bolt it down as part of the total cost
    you are taxed on all transactions and surcharge is up to you.
    if you get anymore fees then this you need to find another ATM company. I use payment alliance international.
    don't buy a used ATM, because it probably won't have the up to date protocols.
    Biggest pain is keeping it filled and you have to have a descent amount of float, rarely have issues with them. Think I had a sensor get dirty, a keypad that needed a new master code (idk?), and update to EMV reader
    Payment Information
    Allpoint Surcharge Income 77 x $0.25
    Interchange Fee 379 x -$0.20
    Net Interchange Income $XXXX
    Surcharge Income $XXX x $3.00
    Total Income: $XXX

    Am I reading it correctly that you are charged/taxed .45 per transaction and get $3 as a fee with each transaction?

    #31 9 months ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Am I reading it correctly that you are charged/taxed .45 per transaction and get $3 as a fee with each transaction?

    that's the interchange fee, I only get taxed for that. it's .20 cents per transaction regardless if they just check their balance or W/D.
    If they only check their balance I loose .20 cents and don't make anything on the transaction.

    As for the allpoint surcharge that's a positive amount, no idea what that's about. I get money from it every month, so I'm fine with it .

    #32 9 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    down voting just because payrange is NOT worth it in my experience.
    Rarely used (even by those that specifically requested it for use), they take a % even after you by the equipment, they did in the past... share your data, and just a waste of time and resources.

    I wouldn't recommend payrange but I think it does helps get a few dollars out of people that don't have cash. I actually saw a nice increase in sales after installing the system. Not enought to pay for it. It cuts down on cash handling also.

    It has a nice accounting feature also where you can just print out a report of all your earnings each week and it breaks it out by machine so you don't have to count via each machine or use the audits. It's pretty nice.

    I still don't think it's worth the cost. I didn't know they share information. That isn't cool.

    #33 9 months ago
    Quoted from knockerlover:

    I ended up sending a note to American changer, here was their response about change machines that convert credit card to quarters.
    “ Thank you for coming to American Changer with your question. Unfortunately, if they are dispensing change, ATM banking regulations prohibit us from allowing a credit card reader on the machines.”
    Looks like the options are:
    -Convert to tokens and use a token change machine that accepts credit cards.
    -Convert to a card kiosk system that uses credit cards.
    -Install credit card readers on each game.
    The token route seems most cost effective for smaller locations.

    I am almost positive that AC 5000's have a credit card option through USA Tech or similar. The box is essential a pulse until that tells the brain to the changer how much credit should be exchanged for currency at that site (tokens or quarters).

    I recommend calling a local atm provider though. Anytime you expect your site to manage cash in any manner outside of their own operation, then I feel us as operators should provide the solution.

    If I have time I will dig up a manual for AC 5000 and I'm almost certain there is an offer from the factory for CC payment.

    #34 9 months ago

    If not talk to Maryland CNC, they definitely have a solution for you but you would have to check local regulations and legality etc.

    #35 9 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    I have one brewery near me with no permit stickers on any of there machines, and they have like 20 machines that take coin drop.

    That's going to be an expensive lesson. A location near me recently had all their properly permitted pins sealed for improperly displaying the stickers. I don't know how much it cost them to get that straightend out.

    #36 9 months ago

    I learned that credit card units can be custom ordered or retrofit onto the American Changer units. I think what we will do is order an AC2001 (dual hopper), put a credit card processor on it, and have it set for tokens.

    What’s everyone’s favorite token mech?

    #37 9 months ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Yeah, that's pretty curious. ATMs are legal, but change machines with a debit/credit card setup isn't?
    https://www.gumball.com/collections/credit-card-change-machine

    Atms are cash withdrawal. A normal cc transaction is a purchase... not a cash withdrawal. Cash advances are a separate thpe of transaction with different limits and fees. So they dont want merchants using “purchase” transactions for cash advances.

    Its not so much “law” as it is about the merchant and bank agreements.

    Walk into any casino and you’ll find the machines happy to let you take cash advances iwth your credit card. Most atms will too. Key is its processed as a cash advance.

    #38 9 months ago

    Dave & Busters will sell you a swipe card with game credits on it. A token machine would be the same thing.

    #39 9 months ago
    Quoted from knockerlover:

    I learned that credit card units can be custom ordered or retrofit onto the American Changer units. I think what we will do is order an AC2001 (dual hopper), put a credit card processor on it, and have it set for tokens.
    What’s everyone’s favorite token mech?

    For pinball immonex. I prefer comparitors but they are not for pinball machines at this time.

    #40 9 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Atms are cash withdrawal. A normal cc transaction is a purchase... not a cash withdrawal. Cash advances are a separate thpe of transaction with different limits and fees. So they dont want merchants using “purchase” transactions for cash advances.
    Its not so much “law” as it is about the merchant and bank agreements.
    Walk into any casino and you’ll find the machines happy to let you take cash advances iwth your credit card. Most atms will too. Key is its processed as a cash advance.

    Most processors allow a cash advance on credit cards. How that transaction is process differs from account withdraws. You can have your atm terminal set up to allow this or not but you must notify your ISO because the set up is different on the banks side.

    #41 9 months ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    A location near me recently had all their properly permitted pins sealed for improperly displaying the stickers. I don't know how much it cost them to get that straightend out.

    Could be a lot. Some cities fine double the cost of each license. Some cities can confiscate unlicensed equipment.

    LTG : )

    #42 9 months ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    That's going to be an expensive lesson. A location near me recently had all their properly permitted pins sealed for improperly displaying the stickers. I don't know how much it cost them to get that straightend out.

    For the first 6 years I never had anyone check on my decals. I got lax about it, when they finally did last year I was missing 2 or 3. The guy was cool about it. He just told me to unplug the machines until I got the decals.

    He came back again this year and was missing one, he said it's fine as long as I get a kiss machine next time. Think its a division of the county police department.

    Doubt they would check on you if you weren't registered with them. So many locations and not enough man power, still not worth taking the chance though.

    #43 9 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    Doubt they would check on you if you weren't registered with them. So many locations and not enough man power, still not worth taking the chance though.

    Someone turns you in. Other ops, other locations. They come running if the city needs money.

    LTG : )

    #44 9 months ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    For the first 6 years I never had anyone check on my decals. I got lax about it, when they finally did last year I was missing 2 or 3. The guy was cool about it. He just told me to unplug the machines until I got the decals.
    He came back again this year and was missing one, he said it's fine as long as I get a kiss machine next time. Think its a division of the county police department.
    Doubt they would check on you if you weren't registered with them. So many locations and not enough man power, still not worth taking the chance though.

    Licensing differs based on device type. The city of Pittsburgh never lets us slide on anything. To be quite honest I have seen some of my competition get away with this but I refuse to attempt it. Other Municipalities let us slide on 'toys' of we are paying for other devices but really that is a very small part of our operation. Either way some local governments are more picky than others but we have never really slide stepped this because it's an expense and even though it's not justified, it's in writing and in the operation agreement of each city, county or local government.

    #45 9 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Someone turns you in. Other ops, other locations. They come running if the city needs money.
    LTG : )

    I've never been one to report. I won't change my way but it's funny how that works with the new guys. They are in love with calling. I'll just stick to my rationale and do my best to respect others space.

    PS can't wait to see you expo. Hopefully you have a minute to chat with me.

    #46 9 months ago
    Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

    I've never been one to report.

    Me either.

    Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

    it's funny how that works with the new guys. They are in love with calling.

    That is minor. I've known ops that took matters into their own hands. Often violent.

    Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

    PS can't wait to see you expo. Hopefully you have a minute to chat with me.

    I hope to see you too and have a few minutes together.

    LTG : )

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