(Topic ID: 137141)

Abracadabra refuses to play ball 5. (formerly "F" relay stuck on)


By Arcade

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 31 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Arcade
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 4 years ago

Helping a family member with his Abra Ca Dabra.
When game is powered on with the cabinet switch the backglass shows Tilt (Which I believe is normal), but the large cam motor and the "F" relay in the backbox are always on and clicking.
I have no schematics and have no idea what the "F" Relay even does.
What should I check first and does anyone have a scan of the manual that shows what all the relays do?
Thanks.

#2 4 years ago

The 'F' Relay is the 00 - 90 unit.

A circuit is not completing. Does the 00-90 unit have a broken off wire? Or from the Ball Count Unit, is it stuck on the last position #6. Sending pulses to the Match Unit.

#3 4 years ago

Check the 'AX' Relay. It is the re-set completely relay.

#4 4 years ago

Thanks. Will check the AX relay tomorrow.

#5 4 years ago

Thanks. After adjusting the AX relay and fixing a stuck 100 point switch the game now starts up and plays.
However we are not out of the woods just yet.
For some reason it will play balls 1 through 4 just fine, but when the stepper unit gets to ball 5 all scoring stops and the machine will not do any thing. Even draining the ball does nothing.
It does not even move to the game over position. It just stalls on ball 5 and none of the switches will register. Very Strange.
Then if we start a new game it always does the same thing. Plays fine until ball 5 and then no switches work anymore.
Any ideas?

#6 4 years ago

The Ball Count unit. Here a few more suggestions. While I will admit that I am no expert at this diagnosis, hope this helps.
Can you manually activate the stepping coil? Watch this carefully. Does the brass contacts on the turning part land on the contacts properly? Has the Slate + Black wire in the Ball 5 position become loose? Does the rotating part snap back to its correct starting position? Or is it to far forward?

#7 4 years ago

Thanks Darcy. The Ball count stepper has been cleaned and is working properly. Yes, the stepper moves properly from spot to spot.
It only quits when it gets to ball 5.
Loose wires were my very first thought as well but they are soldered onto the unit very well.
When you restart the game the stepper goes all the way to the left, just past the ball one position and then snaps to ball 1 after the reset. It then moves to ball 2,3,4, and 5 after a ball drain just like it should.
But when it gets to ball 5 it shuts down all playfield scoring and flippers and just sits there.

#8 4 years ago

Its to late for me to fire up the ACD. But I'll check it tomorrow afternoon. But I am thinking and looking at the schematic and it shows the Ball Count unit starting on Ball 1 with the rotating contact on the first contact, with the Blue + Black wire.

Since the problem is with the 5th ball only, I would not blame the trough switch.
The schematic has the ball waiting in the shooter lane and the power cord disconnected.
Look through the EM tech headings there is an Abra Ca Dabra thread with a few photos of the motor and ball count unit.

#9 4 years ago

Look on the switch stack on the backside of the Ball Count unit. The Zero position and 6th Position switches are there, and should both be closed during balls 1-5, then the 6th position should open when the Ball Count unit steps to Game Over (aka the 6th position).

If the 6th position switch is opening early (like on ball 5), then it probably behaves as described.

#10 4 years ago

Thanks for all the great info.
I am going out of town in the morning for the weekend, but my brother (King-Nine) here on pinside will be following the thread
I appreciate all your help.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Look on the switch stack on the backside of the Ball Count unit. The Zero position and 6th Position switches are there, and should both be closed during balls 1-5, then the 6th position should open when the Ball Count unit steps to Game Over (aka the 6th position).
If the 6th position switch is opening early (like on ball 5), then it probably behaves as described.

That makes sense sir.
I know exactly what switches you are talking about.
I will get my brother to check them out this weekend.

#12 4 years ago

Bingo! Finally got over here to look at it. The position 6 switch was slightly opening while in position 5. Now that works great! The next thing to tackle was the bad left flipper that had no power. First thing I checked was the EOS switch. It was wide open! I mean not even close lol. I adjusted it and and it didn't work so I was like like wtf? I readjusted and cleaned it this time and, Bam!, instant flipper!

#13 4 years ago

Awesome. Glad you got it working.
As soon as Dirtflipper mentioned this switches behind the stepper I knew that was what it had to be.
Can't wait to play some Abra Ca Dabra when I get back to town.
If I remember from your texts we just have a small bonus problem left to tackle.

#14 4 years ago

Yes, I was just about to mention the bonus and see you brought it up. I haven't even begun to look at it but the bonus is staying at 1000 and not progressing. I can't look at it tonight but I'll try to look at it tomorrow. Any ideas where to start would be greatly appreciated.

#15 4 years ago

OK. We Got the Bonus stepper ungummed and adjusted the switch stack on it so it now works properly.
The game is now playing 98% perfect.

Last problem to tackle.
Sometimes the pop bumpers just pop the ball and do not score anything. Then in the middle of a ball they will just start scoring for no apparent reason. The scoring will last awhile and then they will just stop scoring points again. Can't figure out what is causing this odd behavior.
Any ideas from any of you EM experts out there?

#16 4 years ago

Relay 'B' is for the POP Bumpers. Motor switch position 4A. 10 hits of the Pop Bumpers lights them for 1 hit.

#17 4 years ago

Thanks Darcy.
That will give me some areas to look tomorrow.

#18 4 years ago

intermittent scoring for the pops still persists.

I have cleaned and adjusted Relay B twice with no luck.
I have cleaned and adjusted Relay L and M which score 500 and 1000 with no luck.
I took a look at 4A and cleaned what I could get to (top stack) because all I see is a 4 on the round bottom motor relay.
No idea if the top easy to get to stack is A, or if the lower stack that is hidden is A.
But I'm not sure it would help much as that motor never moves at all during pop bumper hits.

Also another thing we noticed, and maybe this is normal, is that when you activate one pop bumper they both energize at the same time.
Seems like just one should activate at a time.

So during a game they may score perfectly for one or two balls then they will just start popping with no score or chimes for awhile, then magically fix themselves.
None of it makes any sense.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Also another thing we noticed, and maybe this is normal, is that when you activate one pop bumper they both energize at the same time.
Seems like just one should activate at a time.

That is normal. Gottlieb did this a lot. 2, sometimes 3 pop bumpers move together.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

That is normal. Gottlieb did this a lot. 2, sometimes 3 pop bumpers move together.

Great to know. Thanks.

Anyone have any ideas on what would make the pops suddenly stop scoring points and chiming mid game?

#21 4 years ago

I keep forgetting to dig out my Abra schematic. Until now.

So the observable symptom is a pop bumper firing. If we start there and work backwards, then maybe the cause will be found.

Both pop bumpers are activated via separate switches on the B relay. So if both are activating, then that suggests B must be activating.

B is activated when either of the pop bumper spoon switches close. After it activates, there is a lock-in path via a switch on B itself, and both EOS switches on the pop bumpers.

The scoring path is also through a switch on B (which activates either the M or L points relays), and the chimes are activated by switches on M and L.

So here are the possibilities:
- One of the spoon switches is gapped too closely, and vibration is causing it to randomly close without the ball nearby.
- The lock-in switch on B is gapped too closely, and vibration is causing it to close, which reactivates B.
- There's a short elsewhere to the B relay.

To confirm which of these it might be, you could block either the spoon switches on the bumpers, or the lock-in switch on B, and see if the problem persists (if nothing obvious appears when inspecting the switches).

#22 4 years ago

Great. We are going to work on it tonight and that is very helpful.
Hopefully we can get it working correctly with that info.

#23 4 years ago

Dirt, The pops are not activating by themselves. They only activate when struck. The problem is in that they are intermittent when scoring. Sometimes they score normally and sometimes they just pop and don't score. When I manually triggered them with my finger I've also noticed that once in a blue moon they will score repeatedly instead of just once like they should. I.E. 3,000 instead of 1,000 points.

#24 4 years ago

Ah, I misunderstood your description then. Sounded like they would just start popping.

So there's a switch on B that feeds either the M or L relay, but which one depends on the mini stepper, "I". There's a switch there that rides on the cog (I think). I'd guess that B is firing OK, but the mini stepper is probably not stepping well enough to get the switch closed reliably. Then after enough hits it finally gets to a point where the switch can close.

I'd suggest checking/cleaning the mini stepper.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Ah, I misunderstood your description then. Sounded like they would just start popping.
So there's a switch on B that feeds either the M or L relay, but which one depends on the mini stepper, "I". There's a switch there that rides on the cog (I think). I'd guess that B is firing OK, but the mini stepper is probably not stepping well enough to get the switch closed reliably. Then after enough hits it finally gets to a point where the switch can close.
I'd suggest checking/cleaning the mini stepper.

Thanks again. I think I know the mini stepper you are referring to.
It is directly left of the B switch stack.

#26 4 years ago

I'd bet a dime to a donut thats it. I saw that stepper yesterday and was thinking it might be worth looking at. It wasn't on our check list so I passed it by lol.

#27 4 years ago

Succes!!!
Turns out it was the spring tension on the little tiny stepper unit.
We cleaned the whole unit up but we had to make the spring tighter before it would play correctly.
One last question. Are the drop targets supposed to reset during a game any time? Ours only reset at game start up.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Are the drop targets supposed to reset during a game any time? Ours only reset at game start up.

Knock them all down, then to reset them, you have to hit the lit center bulls eye target. Which will advance the Bonus Unit, and you score the Bonus amount.
(When the game is set to 5 Ball).

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

Knock them all down, then to reset them, you have to hit the lit center bulls eye target. Which will advance the Bonus Unit, and you score the Bonus amount.
(When the game is set to 5 Ball).

Thanks Darcy.
Loving Abra Ca Dabra.
Will be sad to see it go to my cousins house.

#30 4 years ago

Does that mean we get donuts?

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Does that mean we get donuts?

Yes. Donuts for everyone.
And you have no idea what an inside joke that is with me and my friends. lol

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