(Topic ID: 185294)

Abra Ca Dabra Questions and Issues

By Fytr

7 years ago


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  • 18 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by pinhead52
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#1 7 years ago

I'm borrowing a friend's Abra Ca Dabra (maybe more of a try before I buy deal) and I've noticed that it seems to have a few problems. This is my first EM, and I'm loving it!

It was his first EM too, he cleaned it up and whatnot, and it does shoot well, but has some quirky behaviors that I'd like to resolve.

1. The pop bumpers don't always score. They always "pop" when hit, but a lot of the time the hits aren't registering on the score reels.

2. What is supposed to light/unlight the pop bumpers? They are almost always lit for 1000 on this game, rarely being unlit, and I can't figure out what is supposed to cause them to change.

3. What is supposed to cause the lit drop target arrow to move? On this game it seems to move between 2 or 3 drops but can't see what is causing it to do so.

4. The bonus counter doesn't work very often moving from 1000 to 2000. You can complete the 1-2-3-4 rollovers and it will fire the mech. to increase the bonus, but only rarely does it move from 1000 to 2000. If you do get to 2000, subsequent moves to 3000, 4000, etc. work fine. Switches in the rollover mech below the top rollovers?

5. Sometimes the bonus accumulator sticks and makes a buzzing sound until I bang the side of the cabinet. I think the pivot point on the reset arm is binding and needs to be cleaned and lubed.

6. The chime unit is only firing 1 chime consistently, very occasionally a second chime, and never the 3rd. Likely to just need the chime solenoids cleaned up/replace the coil sleeves to resolve, or are there other switches somewhere that might need cleaning/adjusting?

7. What is the preferred / stock playfield angle for this era of game? He had it at 5.75deg. I lowered to 5.4 deg, but subsequently read that 4 deg is optimal. That seems pretty flat, but again this is my first EM. Thoughts?

8. Would a PDF version of the schematics for this game be available anywhere? Didn't see it linked to on the ipdb.org site.

Thanks for any assistance, really digging this game and hoping to iron out some of these quirks and learn a bit along the way.

#2 7 years ago

<quote>1. The pop bumpers don't always score. They always "pop" when hit, but a lot of the time the hits aren't registering on the score reels.
Check the EOS switch at the bottom of the pop bumper assembly that is normally closed until the plunger is fully pulled in. If it is opening too soon or dirty then the B relay won't be held in to give a nice clean pulse to the score relay

2. What is supposed to light/unlight the pop bumpers? They are almost always lit for 1000 on this game, rarely being unlit, and I can't figure out what is supposed to cause them to change.

Pops are lit by a contact on the I "Target Bank Spot Relay" relay mounted under the playfield. Lights should alternate on/off when I is advanced.

3 Ball setting: 100 (M) and 1000(N) point relay advance I.
5 Ball game: 10(L) and 1000(N) point relays advance the unit.

3. What is supposed to cause the lit drop target arrow to move? On this game it seems to move between 2 or 3 drops but can't see what is causing it to do so.

I relay advances drop target arrow.

3 Ball setting: 100 (M) and 1000(N) point relay advance I.
5 Ball game: 10(L) and 1000(N) point relays advance the I.

4. The bonus counter doesn't work very often moving from 1000 to 2000. You can complete the 1-2-3-4 rollovers and it will fire the mech. to increase the bonus, but only rarely does it move from 1000 to 2000. If you do get to 2000, subsequent moves to 3000, 4000, etc. work fine. Switches in the rollover mech below the top rollovers?

Manually operate the Bonus Advance plunger and check it advances OK. You may need to clean and adjust assy. You could also manually operate relay E and step the unit.

5. Sometimes the bonus accumulator sticks and makes a buzzing sound until I bang the side of the cabinet. I think the pivot point on the reset arm is binding and needs to be cleaned and lubed.

Probably. Could also be the E relay contacts that operate the Add Bonus coil (or whatever operate E)

Beware!! This from http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

Gottlieb Stepper Unit Shoulder Bolts (a Warning.)
On many Gottlieb stepper units (the backbox Credit unit and the bottom panel Coin unit), these units like to bind at the "shoulder bolt" pivot point for the step up/down arms. This is a pivot point that was factory lubed with white grease. Over time, the white grease solidifies, and the unit will not step up and/or won't reset. The solution to this is to remove the shoulder bolt and to clean off the old solidified white grease with alcohol. Then re-lube with Teflon Gel Lube and reassemble.
WARNING. This shoulder bolt has a nut on the back side. If this nut is not removed, and a big screwdriver is put on the shoulder bolt to turn it, the shoulder bolt will shear. This renders the shoulder bolt useless. If this happens nothing short of ordering a new shoulder bolt from Pinball Resource (part# a1059) will fix the problem. So the moral of this story is to first remove the nut from the shoulder bolt before removing/adjusting this bolt. (And even then during nut removal sometimes the shoulder bolt still shears.)

6. The chime unit is only firing 1 chime consistently, very occasionally a second chime, and never the 3rd. Likely to just need the chime solenoids cleaned up/replace the coil sleeves to resolve, or are there other switches somewhere that might need cleaning/adjusting?

Clean the chime unit coils and plungers first and also replace the beer seal foam that the plungers rest on.

7. What is the preferred / stock playfield angle for this era of game? He had it at 5.75deg. I lowered to 5.4 deg, but subsequently read that 4 deg is optimal. That seems pretty flat, but again this is my first EM. Thoughts?

I just adjust the angle to my personal taste and don't rely on an inclinometer

8. Would a PDF version of the schematics for this game be available anywhere? Didn't see it linked to on the ipdb.org site.
Thanks for any assistance, really digging this game and hoping to iron out some of these quirks and learn a bit along the way.

Schematics available from Pinball Resource
http://www.pbresource.com/ads/adschem.jpg

#3 7 years ago
Quoted from woz:

<quote>1. The pop bumpers don't always score. They always "pop" when hit, but a lot of the time the hits aren't registering on the score reels.
Check the EOS switch at the bottom of the pop bumper assembly that is normally closed until the plunger is fully pulled in. If it is opening too soon or dirty then the B relay won't be held in to give a nice clean pulse to the score relay

Pops are lit by a contact on the I "Target Bank Spot Relay" relay mounted under the playfield. Lights should alternate on/off when I is advanced.
3 Ball setting: 100 (M) and 1000(N) point relay advance I.
5 Ball game: 10(L) and 1000(N) point relays advance the unit.

I relay advances drop target arrow.
3 Ball setting: 100 (M) and 1000(N) point relay advance I.
5 Ball game: 10(L) and 1000(N) point relays advance the I.

Manually operate the Bonus Advance plunger and check it advances OK. You may need to clean and adjust assy. You could also manually operate relay E and step the unit.

Probably. Could also be the E relay contacts that operate the Add Bonus coil (or whatever operate E)
Beware!! This from http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps
Gottlieb Stepper Unit Shoulder Bolts (a Warning.)
On many Gottlieb stepper units (the backbox Credit unit and the bottom panel Coin unit), these units like to bind at the "shoulder bolt" pivot point for the step up/down arms. This is a pivot point that was factory lubed with white grease. Over time, the white grease solidifies, and the unit will not step up and/or won't reset. The solution to this is to remove the shoulder bolt and to clean off the old solidified white grease with alcohol. Then re-lube with Teflon Gel Lube and reassemble.
WARNING. This shoulder bolt has a nut on the back side. If this nut is not removed, and a big screwdriver is put on the shoulder bolt to turn it, the shoulder bolt will shear. This renders the shoulder bolt useless. If this happens nothing short of ordering a new shoulder bolt from Pinball Resource (part# a1059) will fix the problem. So the moral of this story is to first remove the nut from the shoulder bolt before removing/adjusting this bolt. (And even then during nut removal sometimes the shoulder bolt still shears.)

Clean the chime unit coils and plungers first and also replace the beer seal foam that the plungers rest on.

I just adjust the angle to my personal taste and don't rely on an inclinometer

Schematics available from Pinball Resource
http://www.pbresource.com/ads/adschem.jpg

Thanks! After dealing with the blade switches on my Black Knight over the years, looking under the hood on this thing is the stuff of nightmares...

#4 7 years ago

Hi Fytr and woz
I agree with "woz , post-2, <quote>1" --- and add on some guessing. IF (if, if) You do SOMETIMES do not get the points when the ball simply hits an playfield-target (of equal points as the pop-bumper) - the fault can be the "Self-Hold-Switch*** on the XYZ-Points-Relay" - THIS switch is not really closed when the relay pulls.

I show it on "Royal Flush" --- the feature goes through the green numbers, "4" is the 'woz-mentioned EOS-Switch' ", "11" is the "Self-Hold-Switch*** on the XYZ-Points-Relay. A short wire runs from "Coil on the XYZ-Points-Relay" to "Switch mounted on XYZ-Points-Relay" - the Self-Hold-Switch***.

IF (if, if) this "Self-Hold-Switch*** is dirty - misadjusted - NOT good closing: You only get points from the XYZ-Points-Relay when the ball makes an "Bulls-Eye-Shot" --- NO POINTS awarded when "Grace Shot" is made (((and the action on a Pop-Bumper I say is an 'Grace-Shot type of hitting something' --- it is FAST - SHORT in time.
May also want to check the Self-Hold-Switch*** - greetings Rolf

zRoyal-Flush-Work-04 (resized).jpgzRoyal-Flush-Work-04 (resized).jpg

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

2. What is supposed to light/unlight the pop bumpers? They are almost always lit for 1000 on this game, rarely being unlit, and I can't figure out what is supposed to cause them to change.

There could be a difference between setting for 3 Ball or 5 Ball. On my AcD (set to 5 Ball) the Pops light up after 100 points scored by either the pop bumper hits and hits to the playfield switches. Once the Pop Bumpers are lit, 1 hit to them collects the 1000 points, the pops go dark again. On the 3 Ball setting the pops might stay lit.

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

There could be a difference between setting for 3 Ball or 5 Ball. On my AcD (set to 5 Ball) the Pops light up after 100 points scored by either the pop bumper hits and hits to the playfield switches. Once the Pop Bumpers are lit, 1 hit to them collects the 1000 points, the pops go dark again. On the 3 Ball setting the pops might stay lit.

I already mentioned this I would suspect the I unit needs cleaning/adjusting

Quoted from woz:

Pops are lit by a contact on the I "Target Bank Spot Relay" relay mounted under the playfield. Lights should alternate on/off when I is advanced.
3 Ball setting: 100 (M) and 1000(N) point relay advance I.
5 Ball game: 10(L) and 1000(N) point relays advance the unit.

Here's the schematic snippet:

Capture (resized).JPGCapture (resized).JPG

#7 7 years ago

Thanks everyone for the detailed responses.

Hoping to start looking at some of these issues tonight, I'll let you know how it goes as I progress. I'm sure I'll plenty of follow-up questions.

#8 7 years ago

Some updates:

Quoted from Fytr:

4. The bonus counter doesn't work very often moving from 1000 to 2000. You can complete the 1-2-3-4 rollovers and it will fire the mech. to increase the bonus, but only rarely does it move from 1000 to 2000. If you do get to 2000, subsequent moves to 3000, 4000, etc. work fine. Switches in the rollover mech below the top rollovers?

I removed the pivot bolt and cleaned out the old lube and added fresh. Didn't help too much when everything was tightened down. I loosened the bolt a quarter turn or so and now it is looser and works well. How tight should the bolt be, it does need to pivot so I'm guessing not completely tight?

Testing shows that it now engages properly when moving from 1000 to 2000, etc. on the bonus counter.

Quoted from Fytr:

5. Sometimes the bonus accumulator sticks and makes a buzzing sound until I bang the side of the cabinet. I think the pivot point on the reset arm is binding and needs to be cleaned and lubed.

Unfortunately, this issue is becoming more frequent. Whatever is sticking is also preventing the bonus counter from increasing. It buzzes and everything stops registering until it releases, usually a bang to side of cabinet will work, but less often now.

I'll inspect the E relay unit to try to diagnose.

Quoted from woz:

2. What is supposed to light/unlight the pop bumpers? They are almost always lit for 1000 on this game, rarely being unlit, and I can't figure out what is supposed to cause them to change.

Pops are lit by a contact on the I "Target Bank Spot Relay" relay mounted under the playfield. Lights should alternate on/off when I is advanced.

3 Ball setting: 100 (M) and 1000(N) point relay advance I.
5 Ball game: 10(L) and 1000(N) point relays advance the unit.

3. What is supposed to cause the lit drop target arrow to move? On this game it seems to move between 2 or 3 drops but can't see what is causing it to do so.

I relay advances drop target arrow.

3 Ball setting: 100 (M) and 1000(N) point relay advance I.
5 Ball game: 10(L) and 1000(N) point relays advance the I.

I removed the I relay unit, cleaned the switches with an emory board, and cleaned the contact wheel area, though it didn't shine up or anything, a little grease was removed. Still not working properly, seems to try to rotate but doesn't do so an equal distance each time. I see there is a gear in the middle of the assembly, wondering if it might be stripped or it's not making good contact with what is supposed to rotate it. Will take a closer look.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

I removed the I relay unit, cleaned the switches with an emory board, and cleaned the contact wheel area, though it didn't shine up or anything, a little grease was removed. Still not working properly, seems to try to rotate but doesn't do so an equal distance each time. I see there is a gear in the middle of the assembly, wondering if it might be stripped or it's not making good contact with what is supposed to rotate it. Will take a closer look.

Sometime the tention on the alternating switch that rests on the cam is too much and restricts rotation. Manually lift the switch up to release pressure on the cam and then see if the unit steps properly.

If that doesn't fix it you may need to adjust the detent.

There's a nice writeup about adjusting the Gottlieb AS style relay here:

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

and search on the page for "Gottlieb's AS Relay (the Miniature Stepper)."

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

5. Sometimes the bonus accumulator sticks and makes a buzzing sound until I bang the side of the cabinet. I think the pivot point on the reset arm is binding and needs to be cleaned and lubed.

Removed the bonus relay and adjusted a few switches that looked a little to close the margins when open or closed. This is now fixed.

However, now the bonus when scored is never actually awarded by the score reels. Would that be a problem with the same relay switches, or somewhere else? (You can hit the lit center target or outlane switch and it reacts as expected (resets drops, etc.), but no score is added).

Quoted from woz:

Sometime the tention on the alternating switch that rests on the cam is too much and restricts rotation. Manually lift the switch up to release pressure on the cam and then see if the unit steps properly.
If that doesn't fix it you may need to adjust the detent.
There's a nice writeup about adjusting the Gottlieb AS style relay here:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps
and search on the page for "Gottlieb's AS Relay (the Miniature Stepper)."

I cleaned AS Relay Stepper again using scotchbrite pad, it shines now. Also tried to loosen the contact arms tension on the plate a bit by bending them back ever so slightly. If I manipulate the unit manually it will rotate as expected, though I need to use a fair amount of force to do so. When playing the unit is working a bit better than previously, but not consistently yet. It may take 3 or more hits to a 10pt. bumper, for example, before it advances (5 ball game).

IMG_1005 (resized).JPGIMG_1005 (resized).JPG

The ratchet seems worn to my eye as well, though it does work when manually manipulated.

IMG_1002 (resized).JPGIMG_1002 (resized).JPG

#11 7 years ago

The ratchet gears do need replacement at times due to wear. The disc and wiper can be cleaned with a brass or copper cleaner on a soft rag, then polish clean. A SMALL application of Super Lube to the disc is a good idea. Be certain that both boards are aligned properly that when the wiper turns, it is centered directly in the middle of each setting.

#12 7 years ago

I cleaned and adjusted the switches on the Delay relay, which caused the game to not start anymore (wouldn't come out of tilt). After finding another thread on the same issue determined that I had to adjust the switches so the second from the front one on the left side would connect prior to the one behind it, which fixed the issue.

So the only significant issue I have left is that the bonus is never scored. I can accumulate bonus 2000, 3000, etc. but when I hit the lit center target or lit drop targets, no score is added, though the game resets, etc. as expected.

The pop bumpers are, most of time, scoring the 1000 pts when lit.

Which relay or what not is responsible for applying the bonus score?

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

I cleaned and adjusted the switches on the Delay relay, which caused the game to not start anymore (wouldn't come out of tilt). After finding another thread on the same issue determined that I had to adjust the switches so the second from the front one on the left side would connect prior to the one behind it, which fixed the issue.

Are you sure you mean Delay Relay - I don't see that on the schematic.

Quoted from Fytr:

So the only significant issue I have left is that the bonus is never scored. I can accumulate bonus 2000, 3000, etc. but when I hit the lit center target or lit drop targets, no score is added, though the game resets, etc. as expected.

Which relay or what not is responsible for applying the bonus score?

Relay E starts the bonus scoring sequence. Check if E operates when you manually activate the outlane switches as they always score bonus. Report back

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from woz:

Are you sure you mean Delay Relay - I don't see that on the schematic.

Lol. Okay, Hold relay then.

Quoted from woz:

Relay E starts the bonus scoring sequence. Check if E operates when you manually activate the outlane switches as they always score bonus. Report back

Well there's my problem, my game doesn't have any relay labelled "E" that I can find...

When the outlane bonus switch is triggered the magic wheel thingy in the cabinet spins a rotation, but that's all I can see happening. Any idea where the E relay would typically be located?

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Well there's my problem, my game doesn't have any relay labelled "E" that I can find...

"E Relay" is also called 'Advance Bonus Relay'. It will be on the motor board, on the right hand row of relays. It should have a small label on it black letting on a yellow background. Is your pin missing the long white relay label, that is between the relays?

#16 7 years ago

On the bottom panel near the rear Jones connectors

Capture (resized).JPGCapture (resized).JPG

#17 7 years ago

I was able to see things better this morning and indeed both the 500 Pt and Adv. Bonus relays are triggered when the outlane switch closes. So I re-adjusted the bonus relay switches again, to tighten the gaps and try to make it so they would all close at approx. the same time. Took a few iterations but the bonus is now both accumulating and scoring!

I really dig how simple working on an EM is as it's all pretty much right in front of you and you can see it with your own eyes (or not, as the case may be...).

Thanks guys!

Now I need to decide if I should add this game to the permanent collection...

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

I was able to see things better this morning and indeed both the 500 Pt and Adv. Bonus relays are triggered when the outlane switch closes. So I re-adjusted the bonus relay switches again, to tighten the gaps and try to make it so they would all close at approx. the same time. Took a few iterations but the bonus is now both accumulating and scoring!
I really dig how simple working on an EM is as it's all pretty much right in front of you and you can see it with your own eyes (or not, as the case may be...).
Thanks guys!
Now I need to decide if I should add this game to the permanent collection...

Abra certainly is a keeper game for most.

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