I'm having a couple of issues with my Abra Ca Dabra that I'm hoping someone might be able to help with. Here they are:

1. When a player completes the 1-2-3-4 sequence, the sequence is supposed to reset and the player receives the bonus score. When the bonus is maxed out at 5,000, and the sequence is completely, the player is awarded a free game. But when I complete the sequence, I receive the bonus score TWICE. Example: Instead of scoring 2,000, it scores 2,000 plus another 2,000. (Which is slightly different than receiving 4,000) Instead of winning one free game, I receive two. What gives?

2. Occasionally, the pop bumper will not score anything. Usually it scores 1,000 when lit and 100 when not lit. But occasionally, the ball will hit the skirt, the bumper will fire, but it will not score anything. I adjusted the scoring switch on the bumpers to make certain the NC switch opens fully, but I'm still having the intermittent issue.

3. Occasionally, a lit target will not score the bonus amount - it will only score 500 (which is what it is supposed to score when it is not lit). The thing is, it's never the same target or same bonus amount. So sometimes all the targets will score 1,000 when lit, and other times, one or two of the lit targets will only score 500. Same thing for 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 etc.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I have the schematic, but still have trouble reading it. I'll try using the jumper wire to check the path you've outlined.

As for the sequence bank resetting, the bonus + bonus points are awarded one right after another, and the 1-2-3-4 relight during/right after the second bonus is awarded. (It happens so fast it's hard to tell if they are lighting up during the second bonus or immediately after.) The left and right outlanes score the bonus correctly - just one time.

DaMoib - that was the problem! I just adjusted that switch a bit to make sure it opened when that relay fired and now it only scores once! First problem solved! Thanks!

Yes, I'm very familiar with this relay (cleaned the one on my Surf Champ before). I also took the "I" relay apart and cleaned it about a month ago, after I noticed the rotating light was getting very sluggish. It's now very clean and working flawlessly.

I've not yet checked out the path you highlighted in post #2. But I did do some experimenting with the pops. I'm playing on 3-ball play, so every time 100 or 1,000 is scored, the pop is supposed to change from lit to unlit to lit again. Here's what I noticed:

- When it doesn't score, it is always lit for 1,000. In other words, it always works fine when it is not lit and scoring 100.

- The lack of scoring always comes in bunches - usually 8, sometimes 4. In other words, I used my hand and let the ball hit the bumper - 8 straight times it did not score. (Also did not advance the rotating light for the drops.) The bumper remained lit the entire time. Then it started working again, going from lit to unlit and back with every hit. Worked fine for about ten hits, then it got stuck on "Lit" again, but didn't score for the next 8 hits. Then it started working again. The next time it stopped working, it stopped for 4 hits, then started working again.

Thoughts?

Thanks! I will check both of those things out tonight and report back!

You were absolutely right! The NC part of that switch appeared to be closed, but was not making good contact. So I cleaned the contacts, tightened it a bit and now it's working exactly as it should. Thanks! - two issues resolved!

I haven't yet had a chance to look at those target switches, but one other thing cropped up as I was playing multiple games and testing the pops. Every once and a while, two of the targets (on the same side of the playfield) will light up at the same time. It's always the adjacent target that lights, and they light on both sides of the playfield. One time it was even the top target and the bottom target (adjacent if you are counting 1-2-3-4-5,1-2-3-4-5). It only stays lit until a pop fires or a target is hit, then it goes back to just one target at a time. Do you think it is related to the target switches, or the "I" relay?

Thanks, Howard. Yes, I checked the instructions for adjusting the relay. http://www.pbresource.com/relay/gtb-asadj.jpg I found that it was properly adjusted. But as I looked at both sides of the relay, I noticed something unusual: On one of the boards, the wiper was dead center on segment #6. But when I flipped it over, the wiper was almost straddling the line between #5 and #6 - which would explain why two lights would light up simultaneously.

As I touched the wiper with my finger, I noticed there was a little bit of play in it - sometimes it would land right in the middle of the the segment and other times it would straddle the line. I realized that the little metal bar in the wiper, that fits inside the ratchet, had been bent ever-so-slightly inward, which gave it some play inside the ratchet. I simply took a screw driver and gently bent the two edges of metal outward. Then, when I inserted it into the ratchet, it fit snugly. Now, every time it advances, it hits smack dab in the middle of the segment. Now it is working correctly. Curious if anyone else has ever seen this happen before...

AS Relay01 (resized).jpg

AS Relay01a (resized).jpg

AS Relay02 (resized).jpg

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DaMoib, I've checked all of these switches - they all appear to be working properly when the targets go down. But it's still acting funky. So I did an experiment. I took the glass off and knocked down the targets with my finger, then advanced the light by closing one of the 10-point switches. What I found was that every time the targets reset, if I knocked down the target that was lit when they reset, it would score the bonus points. That went for both banks of targets. But when I advanced the light to the next target and knocked it down, it would only score 500 points. That continued on for the rest of the targets.

With all the targets down, I would advance the light so it started on a different target than the first time. And then reset the targets. Same thing happened: when I knocked down the target that was lit, it would score the bonus. But when I advanced the light, the targets only scored 500. Same thing if I reset the targets and advanced the light 1 or 2 or 3 spots, they would always score 500. No target would score the bonus until the targets reset and only if I hit the one that was lit when they reset.

Any suggestions?

Abra Ca Dabra_Drop Targets (resized).jpg

Rolf,

I did a little more testing, which I will try to describe step-by-step using the photo below:

1. I started a new game. All drop targets reset. The rotating light was at position #2. When I knocked down targets 2A and 2B (I did this one target at a time), each one scored 1,000 points, the bonus value. If I knock down an unlit target, it will score 500 points (I didn't do it this time, but I know from prior testing it will.)

2. With my finger, I activated one of the 10-point switches, which moved the light to position #3. But when I knocked down target #3A, it only scored 500 points instead of 1,000. Same with target #3B.

3. I again activated a 10-point switch, moving the light to position #4. When I knocked down target #4A, it again scored 500 points (instead of the bonus value of 1,000). Same for target #4B.

4. I again activated a 10-point switch and the target light moved to position #5. This time, when I knocked down target #5A with my finger, it did score 1,000 points. Same for target #5B.

5. I again activated the 10-point switch and the light moved to position #1. When I knocked down targets 1A and 1B with my finger, they only scored 500 each.

6. I activated the 10-point switch to move the light to position #5. Then I hit the target reset button and both banks of targets reset.

7. This time, I started with target #5A. When I knocked it down with my finger, it scored 2,000, the new bonus score. Same thing with target #5B. It is working properly.

8. I hit the 10-point switch to move the target light to position #1. But now, when I knocked down target 1B, it only scored 500, instead of the 2,000 it is supposed to score.

9. I continued doing this process for all the targets. Most of them only scored 500, sometimes they did score the bonus amount. The only thing that was consistent is that every time I reset the targets, the set that was lit when the targets reset would score the bonus amount. When the light moved to another target, it usually scored only 500.

In answer to your question: No. When I knock down the targets, the score motor is not turning at the time I knock them down. It does turn after the target is hit.

Abra Ca Dabra_Drop Targets (labelled) (resized).jpg

Yes, they do.

I'll check shortly - got tied up with work.

In the error cases, the "G" (500 point) relay fires, but the "E" (Advance bonus) relay does not. When it works correctly - after the targets reset and I hit the target which was lit at that time - both relays fire.

Yes. I ran my finger over the outside rollovers 4 or 5 times each, and each time it scored the correct bonus score.

Rolf, if you find the schematic complex and confusing, then it must be! (I still find them all rather confusing; slowly learning.) Thank you for looking into it!

I've taken this thing apart a couple of times (see posts 12 and 14) and as far as I can tell, it is working perfectly. Wipers are in exactly the same positions (see post #14) and all the solder joints look good. I even tested each one with a continuity tester to make certain the pairs matched up. They are all good.

I tried this test, dropping each target down, then up, then down, then up - three or four times each. Each time it scored 500 when it should have scored the bonus value (1,000). Each target has the fish paper and rubber bumper.

I did this also. There was one NC switch that did not seem as if it was opening when the relay activated. I adjusted this switch and checked all of the others. Everything appears to be working properly and it had no effect on the target bonus problem.

The weird thing is that the target WILL score the bonus value, but only if it is the one that is lit when the targets reset. And the target rotating light does move to the next target when it is supposed to (when 10 or 1,000 points are scored in five ball play), which suggests the I relay is working properly. But the ability for the target to score the bonus value isn't moving with the light...

Sorry - realized I didn't answer all of your questions. E and G do pull when a lit bonus target is hit, but only if it is the first target in the sequence. And it does pull for the same amount of time. And that behavior is the same when the game is started (at 1,000 bonus) and all throughout the rest of the game, every time the targets reset.

I played around with it some more and noticed something else. In one sequence, when I knocked down the first lit target (and it was lit when the targets reset) it scored 1,000 points (the bonus). But the target caught on the lip of the playfield and didn't drop all the way down, so the switched stayed activated, and after scoring the 1,000 points, it then scored 500 points and continued to score 500 until I dropped the target all the way down. When I then hit the corresponding target on the other bank, it scored 500 points, rather than the bonus. (All other times the two corresponding targets - which were both lit - would score the bonus.) So it seemed as if the scoring of 500 points deactivated the bonus.

Also, while I had the playfield up, I ran my fingers over the outlane which is supposed to score the bonus - and it did. But I noticed that the E relay (advance bonus) and G relay (500 points) both fired. Is the G relay (500 points) supposed to fire every time the E relay (advance bonus) is activated? Since the outlane NEVER scores 500 points, why would the 500 point relay fire?

Hard to say if it's always had this problem. I bought it a couple months ago but took a while to clean it up, then was more focused on obvious problems (pop bumpers firing but not always scoring, receiving double bonus scoring when completing 1-2-3-4 sequence) which DaMoib helped me fix. I think I kinda realized the targets weren't scoring properly, just based on my scores while playing the game.

Yes, I tried both of these scenarios - knocking down a single unlit target (which scored 500) and then the lit target and each time the lit target scored the bonus. Then I did one series where, after the targets reset, I knocked down all of the unlit targets, and then knocked down the lit targets. In that case the lit targets DID NOT score the bonus.

In one series, after all the targets were knocked down, I activated a 10-point switch to move the light to the #3 position. When it got there, the target lights did not light. I hit the reset target and then the target lights lit up. When I hit those targets first, it scored the bonus.

I went through the entire sequence, lighting the center target for special. When I hit that target, it scored the special and reset the target banks. The light was in #5 position. When I knocked down those targets, it gave me 500 instead of the 5,000 it was supposed to. That was the first instance where the first target I knocked down (which was lit when the targets reset) did not give the bonus.

Several days ago, when I first started playing with this, I did a series where it DID score the bonus for SOME (but not all) lit targets. But now, any time the light rotates to another target, that target will NOT score the bonus. Maddening...

Would one of you be able to take some photos of the wiring on your target banks? I was looking at mine closely and noticed something that appears unusual.

See photo 4 below, It's a closeup of the first (top) target on the right bank. When I looked at this it appeared as if the WH-BL wire was touching the bottom tab. Indeed, it looks as if some wire was once soldered to that tab. Right now, the only thing touching that tab is the orange common wire, which is connected at the other end to the BL-BLK wire. On the left target bank, those two switches are connected at each end to the BL-BLK wire.

Makes me wonder - was a BL-BLK wire once soldered to the bottom switch on that tab? But looking at the wiring harness, there is no extra BL-BLK wire to connect to that end.

Thus my question: Is your target bank wired the same way? If not, could that be the cause of my problem?

Targets_Left Bank01 (resized).jpg

Targets_Left Bank_Top Target01 (resized).jpg

Targets_Right Bank01 (resized).jpg

Targets_Right Bank_Top Target01 (resized).jpg

Looks good - there's a good amount of clearance between that leaf and the metal on the target unit. And the rubbers are new and keep it far away from it.

BTW - thanks for taking the time to help me with this. That goes for everyone. I greatly appreciate your help!

Thanks! Yup, yours looks the same as mine. I was hoping that the tab that was bent and seemed to be touching the tab below it (in my photo 4) was the problem. But when I straightened it out, nothing changed.

I've used my continuity tester to check connections between both banks of targets and with the "I" relay. Everything that is supposed to be connected, is.

Back to the drawing board, I guess...

No - no difference.

I was playing a couple of games and noticed that I did get the bonus score a bit more frequently - instead of just the target that was lit when it reset. Not a lot - maybe two of the targets would correctly score the bonus. Not the exact same target - it seemed to just be random. It would correctly score the bonus, then not score it again until the targets reset.

I'm not sure what else I can check on the "I" relay. I've taken it apart and cleaned it. When I put it back together, I had some issues with the wiper not hitting the exact same spot on both boards (which was occasionally causing two targets to light at the same time). But this was due to a little bit of play between the wiper and ratchet and was corrected (see post #14). And now it appears to be working fine - moving one spot every time 10 or 1,000 points are scored.

I also used the continuity tester to make certain there was continuity between the pairs and also with the respective switches on the targets.

I did adjust the switches on top of the relay (which had been the problem with the pop bumper scoring - as outlined in post #12). They appear to be working fine.

I'm happy to take another look at it - I'm just not sure what I should look for at this point. It *appears* to be working correctly. Does one of those switches on top control the scoring of the targets?

Yes. I shorted those, dropped the target, and scored the bonus. (And that target was not lit.) I then moved the jumper to the other target wires (WH-OR, WH-BR) and when I dropped those targets, I also scored the bonus.

Wait - my bad. I jumpered from the target wire, not the I relay. Let me try that.

Okay - I jumpered from the contacts on the "I" relay. I did the WH-SL first and dropped that target - scored the bonus. Then moved it to the WH-OR contact and dropped that target on both banks. Each time I scored the bonus.

Question: Does it matter which side of the board I jumper? For instance, #6 on one side is WH-OR and on the other side #6 is OR-WH. When I jumper it on the WH-OR side, and drop the corresponding target, I score the bonus. But when I jumper it on the other side, the OR-WH wire, it DOESN'T score the bonus; it gives me 500 instead.

(FYI - the photos I've attached are old. That was before I fixed the issue with the ratchet and wiper. Now the wiper is hitting the exact same spot on each side.)

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Did a little checking with the test light and think I've answered my own question: the one board (OR-WH) controls the lights for the target, the other board (WH-OR) controls the scoring?

I cleaned the disc up as you said. Reassembled it, hooked it back up. But it hasn't solved the problem. In fact, the first time I did it, it wouldn't even score the bonus for the first target that was lit when it reset (which it usually scored). I ran it through a couple of times and it will not score the bonus for the lit target.

So I hooked the jumper wires back up, connecting them as before. It scores the bonus every time.

8933 Wiper Disc (resized).jpg

I can't read the schematic like you can. Is there some other place that it is supposed to go from the "I" relay to the target switches to activate the "E" (Advance bonus) relay? In other words, what are we bypassing with the jumper wires going from the "I" relay to the score motor?

Hang on - I think I've found something...

DaMoib, you were absolutely right! I used the continuity tester on the disc, connecting one end to C (the OR-BLK) wire and the other one to wherever the other contact on the wiper was at that particular time. I kept touching spot (0-9) and was only getting continuity occasionally. How could that be? I moved the tester across the wiper and even then would lose continuity. If I pushed down on the back of the wiper - hard - I could usually get continuity. So I put a tiny drop of solder on the back of the wiper at each contact, then reattached everything, screwed it down real tight and now it works!

I will post photos later, just in case someone else runs into this problem down the road (God, I hope not!).

THANKS to everyone for your help! DaMoib - I owe you one!

MATCHING

One last issue while you're all still reading this: The "F" relay (also known as the 00-90 unit relay) which determines the "Match" feature. It is also an AS relay and it appears to be working fine. But I have never gotten credit for a match. My score matches the match number, but it doesn't give me a credit. I'm guessing this might be the same problem with the AS relay? Or is there another possible reason for it not awarding a match?

I actually tried bending it first and for some reason still was not making good contact. But when I pushed on it, I could see the contact press down a little, and continuity was restored throughout the wiper. That's what gave me the idea to try a little solder to hold the contact down. It was a real PITA! I hate that damn relay, but thank you for continuing to push me to look at that for the solution!

Yes - thanks! It's making a little more sense now...

Great tip! Thanks!