Sykesville, MD
Wait - my bad. I jumpered from the target wire, not the I relay. Let me try that.
(Topic ID: 262230)
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Abra Ca Dabra
Gottlieb, 1975
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Okay - I jumpered from the contacts on the "I" relay. I did the WH-SL first and dropped that target - scored the bonus. Then moved it to the WH-OR contact and dropped that target on both banks. Each time I scored the bonus.
Question: Does it matter which side of the board I jumper? For instance, #6 on one side is WH-OR and on the other side #6 is OR-WH. When I jumper it on the WH-OR side, and drop the corresponding target, I score the bonus. But when I jumper it on the other side, the OR-WH wire, it DOESN'T score the bonus; it gives me 500 instead.
(FYI - the photos I've attached are old. That was before I fixed the issue with the ratchet and wiper. Now the wiper is hitting the exact same spot on each side.)
AS Relay01 (resized).jpgAS Relay02 (resized).jpgOne side is lights, other side is scoring. Scoring side is the one with the OR+BLK common.
Sounds like an issue with the wiper and/or disc (A-8933) on the scoring side of the I relay?
I'd put a shine on that 8933 disc with some 200+ grit sandpaper, lightly clean the wiper too. Reassemble and test. If it fixes the problem, finish by lubing the disc.
I cleaned the disc up as you said. Reassembled it, hooked it back up. But it hasn't solved the problem. In fact, the first time I did it, it wouldn't even score the bonus for the first target that was lit when it reset (which it usually scored). I ran it through a couple of times and it will not score the bonus for the lit target.
So I hooked the jumper wires back up, connecting them as before. It scores the bonus every time.
8933 Wiper Disc (resized).jpgI can't read the schematic like you can. Is there some other place that it is supposed to go from the "I" relay to the target switches to activate the "E" (Advance bonus) relay? In other words, what are we bypassing with the jumper wires going from the "I" relay to the score motor?
Quoted from ChipS:I can't read the schematic like you can. Is there some other place that it is supposed to go from the "I" relay to the target switches to activate the "E" (Advance bonus) relay? In other words, what are we bypassing with the jumper wires going from the "I" relay to the score motor?
Using the example below, when you connect the WH-BL at the drop target switch to the OR+BLK at the motor switch, you are bypassing the wiring going from the drop targets to the I relay, the entire I relay (wiper, disc), and the wiring going down to the motor switch (including any jones plugs, daisy chain solder joints). When you switched the WH-BL test point to the I relay disc, you were no longer testing the wiring from the drop to the I relay but were still testing everything else.
AbraDropBonus (resized).jpgAnyone else having problems attaching images to posts? The image is blank after I send the post and I have to edit the post, delete the image, re-attach and save changes to get the image to show correctly.
Quoted from DaMoib:Sounds like an issue with the wiper and/or disc (A-8933) on the scoring side of the I relay?
DaMoib, you were absolutely right! I used the continuity tester on the disc, connecting one end to C (the OR-BLK) wire and the other one to wherever the other contact on the wiper was at that particular time. I kept touching spot (0-9) and was only getting continuity occasionally. How could that be? I moved the tester across the wiper and even then would lose continuity. If I pushed down on the back of the wiper - hard - I could usually get continuity. So I put a tiny drop of solder on the back of the wiper at each contact, then reattached everything, screwed it down real tight and now it works!
I will post photos later, just in case someone else runs into this problem down the road (God, I hope not!).
THANKS to everyone for your help! DaMoib - I owe you one!
MATCHING
One last issue while you're all still reading this: The "F" relay (also known as the 00-90 unit relay) which determines the "Match" feature. It is also an AS relay and it appears to be working fine. But I have never gotten credit for a match. My score matches the match number, but it doesn't give me a credit. I'm guessing this might be the same problem with the AS relay? Or is there another possible reason for it not awarding a match?
Quoted from ChipS:DaMoib, you were absolutely right! I used the continuity tester on the disc, connecting one end to C (the OR-BLK) wire and the other one to wherever the other contact on the wiper was at that particular time. I kept touching spot (0-9) and was only getting continuity occasionally. How could that be? I moved the tester across the wiper and even then would lose continuity. If I pushed down on the back of the wiper - hard - I could usually get continuity. So I put a tiny drop of solder on the back of the wiper at each contact, then reattached everything, screwed it down real tight and now it works!
I will post photos later, just in case someone else runs into this problem down the road (God, I hope not!).
THANKS to everyone for your help! DaMoib - I owe you one!
Cool! So the wiper wasn't bowed enough to make reliable contact across the two traces? I wonder what other AS relay-haters do? New wiper, bend existing wiper, add solder bumps?
Quoted from ChipS:MATCHING
One last issue while you're all still reading this: The "F" relay (also known as the 00-90 unit relay) which determines the "Match" feature. It is also an AS relay and it appears to be working fine. But I have never gotten credit for a match. My score matches the match number, but it doesn't give me a credit. I'm guessing this might be the same problem with the AS relay? Or is there another possible reason for it not awarding a match?
Same deal, the light side of the F relay sounds like it's working, need to test the replay side. Do you see it on the right side of the schematic?
Quoted from DaMoib:So the wiper wasn't bowed enough to make reliable contact across the two traces? I wonder what other AS relay-haters do? New wiper, bend existing wiper, add solder bumps?
I actually tried bending it first and for some reason still was not making good contact. But when I pushed on it, I could see the contact press down a little, and continuity was restored throughout the wiper. That's what gave me the idea to try a little solder to hold the contact down. It was a real PITA! I hate that damn relay, but thank you for continuing to push me to look at that for the solution!
A little tip, use your jumper to short the F relay lightbulb side (WH - white wire is common) to the head general illumination wiring BLK-RED. It will illuminate the match numbers (and the Game Over light) throughout the game and help you align the score with the match number (as well as testing all match bulbs).
AbraMatchJumper (resized).jpgPromoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
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