(Topic ID: 166096)

abra ca dabra

By heinzh1

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by heinzh1
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Capture_(resized).JPG
20160812_AbraCaDabra_001_(resized).JPG
20160812_AbraCaDabra_003_(resized).JPG
#1 7 years ago

Hi everybody. I recently bought an Abra Ca Dabra. It sort of resets but does not kick a ball out. The 10000 reel only resets to 9. If I manually advance it to 0, which is easy since the mechanism does not stick, it still does not kick a ball out. There are only 2 relay switches on that last reel. As soon as the top relay closes and the bottom one opens up in position 9, it stops. Anybody know the arrangement of an abra`s wheel relay arrangement or someone with a similar problem? Regards to all in advance.

#2 7 years ago

Is that a multi player, or one only?
if multi, you can look at another 10000 reel and compare.

#3 7 years ago

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. The following sequence takes place through the closed switches on 'S' relay.
3a. The motor starts running.
3b. The total play meter, and reset 'Ball Count' unit, subtract 'Replay' unit and 'A' relay coil are actuated by a switch on motor 2C.
3c. The target bank is reset by a separate switch on motor 2C.
4. When 'A' relay is actuated, it is locked in by the armature of 'A' relay reset coil. Through closed switches the score units reset to zero through a switch on motor 1A. When all units are reset and motor 2B makes, 'A' relay reset coil is actuated. This release the armature on 'A' relay and opens the switches. The reset cycle is now complete.
5. Place the ball in the out hole. When the ball makes the ball return switch, 'O' relay is actuated and locks in through the normally closed switches on 'A' relay and motor 2B. 'O' relay runs the motor. Motor 4C actuates the ball across the trough switch which steps the ball count unit once, indicating first ball in play. The ball is now in the runway and ready to be shot onto the playfield.

#4 7 years ago

Read that pinrepair page and see how to clean/adjust things. Your reels are probably just gummed up and out of adjust from lack of use and someone's grandpa greasing them when they run dry.

There are a handful of switches in a start path on a single player that all need to be closed making good contact. They will need to be examined/cleaned/adjusted if necessary...the pinrepair website should give you an idea of what's involved.

#5 7 years ago

Lucky bastard. Been looking for an abra ca dabra. Don't seem to come up often.

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

Is that a multi player, or one only?
if multi, you can look at another 10000 reel and compare.

It is a single player

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Read that pinrepair page and see how to clean/adjust things. Your reels are probably just gummed up and out of adjust from lack of use and someone's grandpa greasing them when they run dry.
There are a handful of switches in a start path on a single player that all need to be closed making good contact. They will need to be examined/cleaned/adjusted if necessary...the pinrepair website should give you an idea of what's involved.

The reels are perfectly clean and operate as new. When it reaches nine the top contact closes and the bottom one opens up causing power to stop going to the coil to advance it to 0..

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/
1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. The following sequence takes place through the closed switches on 'S' relay.
3a. The motor starts running.
3b. The total play meter, and reset 'Ball Count' unit, subtract 'Replay' unit and 'A' relay coil are actuated by a switch on motor 2C.
3c. The target bank is reset by a separate switch on motor 2C.
4. When 'A' relay is actuated, it is locked in by the armature of 'A' relay reset coil. Through closed switches the score units reset to zero through a switch on motor 1A. When all units are reset and motor 2B makes, 'A' relay reset coil is actuated. This release the armature on 'A' relay and opens the switches. The reset cycle is now complete.
5. Place the ball in the out hole. When the ball makes the ball return switch, 'O' relay is actuated and locks in through the normally closed switches on 'A' relay and motor 2B. 'O' relay runs the motor. Motor 4C actuates the ball across the trough switch which steps the ball count unit once, indicating first ball in play. The ball is now in the runway and ready to be shot onto the playfield.

I understand the normal start up sequence and will follow it once the reel resets to 0. I do however have no idea why it only runs to 9 where the contact that supplies power to the coil opens up causing it to stop rotating. I have never seen a reel with only 2 contacts. Is this normal on an Abra?

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from heinzh1:

When it reaches nine the top contact closes and the bottom one opens up

misinformation

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from heinzh1:

I have never seen a reel with only 2 contacts. Is this normal on an Abra?

the last reel is like that.

This sounds like your 9 position switch (the top one that closes on 9) is not making good clean contact even though it may look like it is...

I would re-clean the switches with your flexstone and make sure they are making good contact--you want it to have at least a 1/8 inch wipe

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from heinzh1:

The reels are perfectly clean and operate as new. When it reaches nine the top contact closes and the bottom one opens up causing power to stop going to the coil to advance it to 0..

This is incorrect. At 0 the contact on the outside will be closed and the middle and inside will be open. At 2-8 the outside contact is open, the middle is closed, and the inside is open. At 9, the outside contact is open, and the middle and inside are closed. The inside contact is the 9 position switch and it will only close at 9. When the reel goes to 0, a combination of the closed 9 position switch and a switch on the relay for the reel both close which sends power to the next reel to step up.

The three switches on the reel itself do nothing to stop power from getting to the coil. The only switch that can do that is the EOS switch, which opens and causes the relay for the reel to open and kills power to the reel coil.

On the 10000 reel, the outside switch should be closed at 0 and open on the rest. It only has two switches because it doesn't need a 9 position switch to help step up another reel.

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

This is incorrect. At 0 the contact on the outside will be closed and the middle and inside will be open. At 2-8 the outside contact is open, the middle is closed, and the inside is open. At 9, the outside contact is open, and the middle and inside are closed. The inside contact is the 9 position switch and it will only close at 9. When the reel goes to 0, a combination of the closed 9 position switch and a switch on the relay for the reel both close which sends power to the next reel to step up.
The three switches on the reel itself do nothing to stop power from getting to the coil. The only switch that can do that is the EOS switch, which opens and causes the relay for the reel to open and kills power to the reel coil.
On the 10000 reel, the outside switch should be closed at 0 and open on the rest. It only has two switches because it doesn't need a 9 position switch to help step up another reel.

Right, what he said

#13 7 years ago

Sooo much wisdom here, you guys are fast, too.

#14 7 years ago

Lots of misinformation in this thread so I just checked my ACD 10,000 reel...

There are only two switches on the reel:

1) A runout switch that is closed only in positions 1 to 9
2) A reset switch that is closed only in position 0

There is no EOS switch on the "Ten Thousands" unit.

This is what the switches look like in the 0 position:

20160812_AbraCaDabra_003_(resized).JPG20160812_AbraCaDabra_003_(resized).JPG

The picture below shows the switch state for positions 9. Note that in positions 1 to 8 the switches are in the same state just not pushed over as far as in position 9:

20160812_AbraCaDabra_001_(resized).JPG20160812_AbraCaDabra_001_(resized).JPG

Here's the relevant section of the ACD schematic and I just noticed there is an error! As originally drawn, both the 1,000 and 10,000 unit coils will operate together whenever the L (1000 point) relay operates. There's a switch missing from the schematic and so I have added one (marked in red) that should be labelled "9th Position 1,000's Unit". The 10,000 coil then only gets a pulse from L when the 1,000 unit is in the 9th position. There is no EOS switch on the 10,000 coil as the EOS on the 1,000 coil cuts power to the L relay.

Capture_(resized).JPGCapture_(resized).JPG

Hope that helps

#15 7 years ago

Here is a better way of seeing how the score drum works although its rendered as a williams style in the gif....
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-score-reel-operation-animation#post-508934
Hats off to SteveFury.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from woz:

Lots of misinformation

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from woz:

Lots of misinformation in this thread so I just checked my ACD 10,000 reel...
There are only two switches on the reel:
1) A runout switch that is closed only in positions 1 to 9
2) A reset switch that is closed only in position 0
There is no EOS switch on the "Ten Thousands" unit.
This is what the switches look like in the 0 position:

The picture below shows the switch state for positions 9. Note that in positions 1 to 8 the switches are in the same state just not pushed over as far as in position 9:

Here's the relevant section of the ACD schematic and I just noticed there is an error! As originally drawn, both the 1,000 and 10,000 unit coils will operate together whenever the L (1000 point) relay operates. There's a switch missing from the schematic and so I have added one (marked in red) that should be labelled "9th Position 1,000's Unit". The 10,000 coil then only gets a pulse from L when the 1,000 unit is in the 9th position. There is no EOS switch on the 10,000 coil as the EOS on the 1,000 coil cuts power to the L relay.

Hope that helps

This would explain the symptoms, I will have a look at the details. Thanks

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

This is incorrect. At 0 the contact on the outside will be closed and the middle and inside will be open. At 2-8 the outside contact is open, the middle is closed, and the inside is open. At 9, the outside contact is open, and the middle and inside are closed. The inside contact is the 9 position switch and it will only close at 9. When the reel goes to 0, a combination of the closed 9 position switch and a switch on the relay for the reel both close which sends power to the next reel to step up.
The three switches on the reel itself do nothing to stop power from getting to the coil. The only switch that can do that is the EOS switch, which opens and causes the relay for the reel to open and kills power to the reel coil.
On the 10000 reel, the outside switch should be closed at 0 and open on the rest. It only has two switches because it doesn't need a 9 position switch to help step up another reel.

The Abra is not like that, only has two contacts.

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from heinzh1:

The Abra is not like that, only has two contacts.

Which is what the last line of my post said.

#20 7 years ago

Thanks for the pictures woz. Found from your pictures that the contacts were swapped around. I now have them turned around so they look like your machine. When I reset or activate the z relay it pulses the reel 5 times but does not reset to 0. Your schematic will come in handy when I tackle that problem.

Thanks for all the help from everyone!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 4.99
Cabinet - Decals
The Pinball Scientist
 
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
 
2,200 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Downingtown, PA
2,800 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Barnstable, MA
From: $ 3.00
Cabinet - Other
Space Coast Pinball
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/abra-ca-dabra-2 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.