Your loss this time. GoT is done enough that if no more updates come out its fine.

I think at some point they just have to say it's finished. Few games are going to be bug-free. There are many B/W games that have bugs in them. Look at WhoDunnit. 20 years after it's released, competition players found an exploit in the software. It's not good seeing inserts not used or games ending after wizard modes but things like super skill shots are small and shouldn't detract from them moving on to new games.

Avatar is great and does not need a code update.

Xmen is great. We haven't been able to reproduce any wizard mode bugs. They may exist but are super hard to find playing

Avengers really just needs better dots on wizard mode and a Thor flasher fix. Does not need more voices.

Mustang pro code is great and does not need an update. Cannot speak for le

GoT code is great and could stay as is forever.

Star Trek code is done also now and might need a couple bug fixes that are questionable.

Things are definitely looking good.

"Our Elementary School teachers love the kids so much they purchase school supplies on their own and bring them in!"

I'm not saying the programmers shouldn't be proud of the job they do, they should. But Stern doesn't get praise for the fact that they're unwilling to fund development to the level that the programmers think it should be done. Those games got better DESPITE Stern's lack of support, not because of them.

Stern: Nobody bought the game so we wont' update the code!

Customer: I won't buy the game unless the code is updated!

Seems kinda circular to me.

Of course one of Sterns biggest critics gives this a thumbs up

Avengers needs a H drop target fix. Badly.

A programmer owning a game would never be done. Look at CCC for example. As a programmer I totally understand it. Stern should not pay every time someone decides to add non planned features to the code.

You could always fix your H target though and avoid the issues. I agree it needs better tolerance for the problem but it works fine when the target is right.

This topic is on fire because there seems to be a majority opinion that Stern doesn't do the best job supporting its games with code/bug updates. If they did, one, this thread wouldn't have even been started and two, would have died off after every one commented on how great Stern is at fixing the problems found in the games.

It's been said before but in the past it's almost like Stern releases a game with bare code and then uses customers as beta testers. That's one approach but they have to actually implement some of the ideas their testers have. This community is full of creative people both the customers and the creators of the pins. I mean look at all the mods that have come from regular pinheads. All Stern had to do is open its ears/eyes to the fixes asked for and there wouldn't be negative posts to constantly delete.

After thinking about this it makes sense to me. The general public doesn't pay for AMC TV entertainment and thus generally wouldn't migrate to Walking Dead's dark tone of death and rot.

WNBJM has no TV pull behind it but it is bright, colorful, inviting, and oh yeah - it has Boobies!

I have Avatar LE. It is great. Seed shots are not lit during Link MB but shots count towards link MB. No dots for Final Battle. I can live with it but it has it's issues but I know Stern will never touch it.

I really don't want to comment on code anymore. I will only buy games from 2 programmers NIB for now on. One from Stern and One from JJP, oh and Spooky.

My whole point was most games have the core code either done or acceptable.

I've been to final battle about 3 times on Avatar. Each time, it was very exciting and I didnt notice if there were dots or not (I guess it was too frantic). But the sounds and lighting during final battle feel extremely complete. I wouldnt consider a small bug in game stacking to classify this as an incomplete game needing an update.

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But you classified Avengers as the same thing, right?!

Better dots final wizard mode and a bulb not working. Sounds like the same complaint but different game. So why the need for one and not the other?

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Yeah, sales of each pin reflect this I'm sure.

Btw, AMC is not extra to pay for on basic cable, so it's not like HBO.

I no longer have an Avengers, but I've never seen a proper fix for this.

A simple line of code that would tell the H "wait to pop back up for two seconds" would basically solve the problem. I'm not a master programmer by any stretch, but I cannot imagine that would take long to do.

They did this exact fix for tspp. Ball was firing out of I&S before the targets were down, breaking the targets. Code was written to pull target down before releasing from the hole.

Comparing code to a typical game mod is a joke some face on a shooter rod is not code

meaning.. he convinced people to pay him for the skill...

yeah, but passion work should lead to passion projects... not 'we gotta work on our own time to finish projects because the boss won't resource them properly'

Because that burns people out.. and it lets the bad management get away with the bad management because people's passion covered their shortcomings.

Ha no not some face on a shooter rod. It's the creativity behind the many mods that are offered that I was talking about. This community gets ahold of a game and in my opinion, improves the game play and aesthetics of a game. I was saying that if Stern would listen to the creative feedback its customers gave it, the games would only the better for it.

Well, since Starship Troopers hit Pinball Arcade covered in STERN logos, if they can do that, they must still have the license and such since it was obviously approved...... Ive a bug that needs fixing, would appreciate updated code, cheers!

So what?

I thought that the Danger rooms inserts didn't reset on X-Men still? I'm running 1.50, not 1.51, but the last thread on this indicated this wasn't fixed. X-Men is fantastic, it just needs a couple small tweaks/fixes at the end game.

I personally own several Stern machines. This statement however rubs me the wrong way "if you don't like it, don't buy it" because of the FOMO LE model Stern runs. You force people to either buy games before they can even play them and then leave them unsupported, or people wait and then can't get one. Your current model basically screws early adopters for a year or more usually, and anyone who waits for the code usually ends up empty handed. How am I supposed to know if I like it if your LE model is primarily based on the premise that I have to buy it before I can play it since they usually sell out?

See, I think it's a brilliant model. LEs for those must-have fans, or folks who can afford the space and cash for an unproven pin.
Premiums for the rest of us.
So long as my Premium has all of the play features that an LE has, it's a great system.
That's not even discussing that the LEs are sometimes flawed. Stern needs more time to find issues and fix them.
The Premium model is also safer in that regard.
The real problem is, too many cant-wait-yahoos, who can't keep it in their pants, rush out and buy a game without thinking about it for any length of time.
I've been that Yahoo, and might be again in the future -but the bottom line is, if you're buying a game without finished code and it's not good enough for you, you're the one that needs to change.
Sterns model works if you purchase wisely.

Per prior post, Mustang LE at least needs a code upgrade to address the backbox flashers not currently lighting at all. Given that this was an advertised feature of this model, this should be unacceptable to Stern.

Oh it's great for Stern, just not anyone else. Pre-LE days were best for the customers. I have seen that "if you don't like, then don't buy it" attitude before from other companies before when they held all the power, when a company acts like that then it's only a matter of time before things shift not in their favor. I can remember getting that attitude/vibe from:

Best Buy
Cable companies
EA
etc...

Basically, when you act like that, customers will seek other options as soon as they arise. You're not creating brand loyalty at all.

Ok, I'll slow it down...
Because there is a difference between doing something because its your job... and getting paid to do something you do natively.

And that company who constantly ships new pins with complete code is........

Without Stern this place would be about as exciting as a Cleveland Browns message board.

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Yes STERN clear your FB ban list, Its a joke when someone comments to a foul up, and all you do is Ban.

Jared is an employee (contractor? no idea) who has to say what he's allowed to say if he wants his job.

He can't suddenly say "this game isn't even being worked on right now, but we'll get to it eventually, so we're going to string you along until we get to it".

(Making that up, no idea what he'd say if he could.)

That sounds like a job. Not something he's being paid to do natively.

Pointing the finger trying to find someone else doing it the right way doesn't absolve them from doing it wrong. Games should ship with finished code. Plain and simple. Maybe stern needs to begin working on code long before the white wood is built, not waiting until long after the game is in customers hands. That way the game could be completed all at once.

Nope. Dwight Sullivan.

I say this as a HUGE fan of mustang but NO, the pro code is only GOOD and could be improved. There is at least one bug that traps balls behind the left ramp, if it is down and the upper switch is triggered it should lift the ramp and there are situations where it doesn't (I can't find any fault in the switch and I hear the same complaint from others). I have some other glitches that I have noticed as well. IMO there could be improvements in the code from a play-ability standpoint but honestly I'm not expecting any updates and will still love playing it.

If Stern was truly committed to code release, Avengers would have been released two years ago, Star Trek would have had a final revision by now and xmen's bugs would have been fixed. Now with that said I've seen some positive code implementation for GOT so perhaps Stern is turning a new leaf but the lack of code for their older games is really hurting their message. Come this Friday I hope that Stern will finally put some of these things to rest, invest the time and finish the games. Otherwise Jared's words just become a bitter taste in some of the "old titles" owners mouths.

Yet you still give no example to back you up figures

I read what Stern/Jared wrote and it just sounds like a lot of excuses. There is a thing called time management and prioritization and maybe Stern should of skipped a new game cycle (Wrestlemania) and used their resources to play catch-up on all the outstanding code issues. They made time to relocate to a new facility, they could of hired some programmers on a contract basis and worked with some owners that could volunteer to help with testing. For instance, have a programmer work on Avengers, test it inhouse and release it to some folks in public for testing under NDA or whatever.

Come on Stern, get some programmers and finish-up the code! Releasing updates says a lot more than this post did.

Stern does not know what game will turn into a turd till the game is out should they skip GOT KISS or TWD Stern always has and always will drop a turd every 3 or 4 games

Code is code, I expect to wait awhile before my pin is at it's best. What I really want to know is when the damn thing is going to ship. For example, GOT premium has went dark since the reveal of the rendering. I get the order that things are built, but it they would give normal updates on where they stand with the lines and update expected ship dates, I'd feel much more at easy. Enough of this "stay tuned" stuff.

"You must choose... wisely"

Don't be too critical of the op or he'll get his buddy the moderator to give you a warning.

Thank you Jared,my Sterns are all upgraded as well,fine job,look forward to many more!!!!You folks have to find some peace,and contentment,listen to Aurich and O-din!!!

I say: "Patience...Breath....Relax."

I will explain why: XM - MET - ST - TWD. Might have started basic, but when those programmers worked their magic......Damn fine results in the end. Let's continue posting feedback on why we like about new games and what we don't, and what we would like to see and why. That's useful info for them, and they have shown that they use it.

I own a KISS and just keep thinking about what they "might" add into the game. I don't lament on what isn't there. That is a complete waste of energy. You never know what they might be cooking up.

Amen

I've supported Stern (5 NIB and 8 total purchases), but Stern have been almost the only game in town. But Stern's caviler disregard of owners, specifically regarding code and bug fixes is driving me away.

It's all well and good to say B/W games have bugs and so therefore that's pinball deal with it. But that's not the case, Stern has some of these games games in production (ST) and still has the opportunity to add to or fix games such as Avengers and XM, we are fully able to update our pins with USB stick, we just need Stern to do the code, because we are not able to modify the code.

Talk is cheap #where's-the-code?

I sure loved his passion for pinball! Really sad to hear he is no longer at Stern. I thought he was the young stud they really needed for the succession plan, but then again none of us ever see what happens insdie the walls.