About Stern and Commitment to Code Releases

(Topic ID: 144776)

About Stern and Commitment to Code Releases


By Jared

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by clg
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There are 1019 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 21.
#51 3 years ago

Name the Lyman game that sucks.

Wh—oh. Sorry, I fell asleep while you tried to think of one. Trick question. No such thing!

Stern has one of the best programmers in the business working for them. He's the reason ACDC sold the way it did, anyone who thinks it was the theme is delusional. The code made that game red hot, and everyone wanted it.

Look at TWD. Borg is one of my favorite modern pinball designers. But TWD didn't quite come together IMHO. Cost cutting, or license-mandated changes or something held it back. I think it's the barn/prison area that got cost cut, and that's why it has the weirdly scaled head behind it. Last minute change to cut a feature. (Purely theory, have no rumors or anything to validate it.)

Anyways, it's a game people didn't love immediately. Now Lyman has taken the code to the next level, and it's becoming a favorite of owners. Code. Code did that.

Game design, mechanicals, toys, sound, animation, music, all of that is important. But the games that stay classics are the ones with the best rules and experience.

Stern has one of the best in the biz. You can't say code is their weakness. Lack of communication, rushed code schedules, and secrecy are. Those affect the code. And that's why it takes so long.

It would be cool if these upcoming vault edition cum remakes of Stern games created more time for programming. If they could just catch up and not have to keep playing catchup then they'd have a lot more success.

They've added Dwight, but I heard they let Jack go. So same number of programmers if that's true.

#52 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

The thing is, we devalue a legit issue like Avengers when we harp of WoF. It makes people sound like they're just trolling. (o-din would never do that for the record.)

No I'm just a dummy reading promises of code updates and have read threads about both these games not being finished and wonder why they keep pumping out games before finishing others. I don't know the politics about it.

Quoted from vid1900:

Gary is no dummy, he was not going to go bankrupt to finish a game that no one wanted.

So we can expect the same with WWE and Kiss?

#53 3 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Did anyone grab that download before it was taken down?

Lots of people. It's available online if you look hard enough, just not through Stern.

#54 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

I'd say their weakest spot is their photoshop art for sure.

It's not Stern's art, it's the license holder's art.

Nowadays, license holders want a single unified art across all media. Slurpee cups, Lunchboxes, Toys, Calendars, everything has to have the same artwork from the studio issued clip art book.

#55 3 years ago

If Avengers is getting worked on(eventually) then I hope they can squeeze some love in to polish X-Men off. With 3 movies coming out next year they would be stupid not too while they may have a little on the Marvel license. Marvel is going to show the previews to the new X-Men movie during Star Wars.

#56 3 years ago

Simple code where everything is finished and refined is better than complicated code where things are left unrefined.

#57 3 years ago

Yeah well, license issues..... Not sure anymore. Looks like the holders are very difficult towards pin companies.

If you look at what games big franshize names are bringing out. With crap and uglyness all over. And than aurich only is allowed to copy an egg for Aliens... Dont understand why that is.

Think to is fair to say that looking at license shortcomings, dont think the pin companies are to blame fot that.

If something is not allowed, you cant do anything about it.

Stern is not alone in this. So, dont think that is a weak point, at all.

#58 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

So we can expect the same with WWE and Kiss?

KISS is selling like gangbusters.

Not every pin is going to be a great pin or a great seller.

For every TAF, there is a Champion Pub

For every EBD there is a Spectrum.

22
#59 3 years ago

My biggest problem with Stern is just when they finish the code, you can no longer buy the pin because they are not making it.

#60 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Name the Lyman game that sucks.

Wh—oh. Sorry, I fell asleep while you tried to think of one. Trick question. No such thing!
Stern has one of the best programmers in the business working for them. He's the reason ACDC sold the way it did, anyone who thinks it was the theme is delusional. The code made that game red hot, and everyone wanted it.
Look at TWD. Borg is one of my favorite modern pinball designers. But TWD didn't quite come together IMHO. Cost cutting, or license-mandated changes or something held it back. I think it's the barn/prison area that got cost cut, and that's why it has the weirdly scaled head behind it. Last minute change to cut a feature. (Purely theory, have no rumors or anything to validate it.)
Anyways, it's a game people didn't love immediately. Now Lyman has taken the code to the next level, and it's becoming a favorite of owners. Code. Code did that.
Game design, mechanicals, toys, sound, animation, music, all of that is important. But the games that stay classics are the ones with the best rules and experience.
Stern has one of the best in the biz. You can't say code is their weakness. Lack of communication, rushed code schedules, and secrecy are. Those affect the code. And that's why it takes so long.
It would be cool if these upcoming vault edition cum remakes of Stern games created more time for programming. If they could just catch up and not have to keep playing catchup then they'd have a lot more success.
They've added Dwight, but I heard they let Jack go. So same number of programmers if that's true.

24
But I believe he is the top programmer in the game.

#61 3 years ago
Quoted from Donnyman:

If Avengers is getting worked on(eventually) then I hope they can squeeze some love in to polish X-Men off. With 3 movies coming out next year they would be stupid not too while they may have a little on the Marvel license. Marvel is going to show the previews to the new X-Men movie during Star Wars.

IM, XM and ST can all still use some bug fixes and polish and/or finished code.

Professor Xavier shots don't correspond to the actual character shots (when possible) why is this? This is a bug and there are several others.

ST is a great pin, but still think it's code is not finished.

#62 3 years ago

Licenses differ from company to company, and property to property. Some are relatively easy or allow a lot of freedom, some don't, and some are nightmares.

Stern has had all three kinds.

IMHO if you make it more of a priority in your strategic thinking it's possible to choose licenses that will give you that degree of freedom. Make it part of your pitch package, and pick entities that will give you the ability to do something awesome like Metallica. Licensed game, but totally original. Minus the awful Roadcase Premium translite. Hand drawn, cool original toys with personality (Sparky is the best).

Compare that to Rolling Stones, which is a snooze fest advertisement. There's more to it than "pick a popular band and license them". Licenses can work to promote your game and attract players and buyers while still giving your team room to create something original.

The companies that do that will get my business, that's who I'll buy NIB from.

#63 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Licenses differ from company to company, and property to property. Some are relatively easy or allow a lot of freedom, some don't, and some are nightmares.
Stern has had all three kinds.
IMHO if you make it more of a priority in your strategic thinking it's possible to choose licenses that will give you that degree of freedom. Make it part of your pitch package, and pick entities that will give you the ability to do something awesome like Metallica. Licensed game, but totally original. Minus the awful Roadcase Premium translite. Hand drawn, cool original toys with personality (Sparky is the best).
Compare that to Rolling Stones, which is a snooze fest advertisement. There's more to it than "pick a popular band and license them". Licenses can work to promote your game and attract players and buyers while still giving your team room to create something original.
The companies that do that will get my business, that's who I'll buy NIB from.

Yep I definitely think if they would choose licenses that would let them stretch their artistic wings, it would be easier to work with more difficult licenses. They could say, "look how successful we handled this property, now let us handle your's in the same way."

Quoted from DCFAN:

Simple code where everything is finished and refined is better than complicated code where things are left unrefined.

I agree with this opinion for sure but I'm probably in the minority here. But again I would say that most code deficiencies are not found when a game is on route. I've played many of the games mentioned here and have never once noticed something was missing. It's disconcerting to hear though because it does affect the decision to buy a NIB in the future.

#64 3 years ago

It sucks that pinball machines have to have licensed themes to sell these days. That's one of the reasons I've lost interest. Crappy licenses and crappy themes.

#65 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It sucks that pinball machines have to have licensed themes to sell these days. That's one of the reasons I've lost interest. Crappy licenses and crappy themes.

You're too negative.

Rob

#66 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It sucks that pinball machines have to have licensed themes to sell these days. That's one of the reasons I've lost interest. Crappy licenses and crappy themes.

Good thing you bought RBION.

#67 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It sucks that pinball machines have to have licensed themes to sell these days. That's one of the reasons I've lost interest. Crappy licenses and crappy themes.

I think there's still hope. Someone just has to prove it still.

#68 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

Good thing you bought RBION.

I'm looking at it now! That thing's so cool.

Quoted from Rob_G:

You're too negative.

I just call it the way I see it. I don't sugar coat anything.

#69 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I think there's still hope. Someone just has to prove it still.

FT is a great step in the right direction.

JJP #3 on the way. Maybe that could be the one.

#70 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm looking at it now! That thing's so cool.

It's definitely a WTF license. They would never use a license like that today; only rock bands, movies, and TV shows. But I guess that's what the majority of us want so can't really complain.

#71 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It sucks that pinball machines have to have licensed themes to sell these days.

#1 earning pinball machine in the country right now:

wnbjm_tshirt_website_1.jpg

469835.jpg

#72 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

It's definitely a WTF license. They would never use a license like that today; only rock bands, movies, and TV shows. But I guess that's what the majority of us want so can't really complain.

WTF works for me. Plus they did a real good job on it. I'll take WTF any day over antique rock stars or shows that they can't even get a decent license for.

#73 3 years ago

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#74 3 years ago
Quoted from Barron:

I'm sure the time he tried to get into fisticuffs with Jack Danger during a pinball league night didn't put him in favor with his bosses, either.

#75 3 years ago

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#76 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

WTF works for me. Plus they did a real good job on it. I'll take WTF any day over antique rock stars or shows that they can't even get a decent license for.

If someone put me on the spot, I may just say that Ripley's is my favorite Stern. Really enjoy it.

Who's Jack the programmer?

#77 3 years ago

Jared thanks for your great communication and Sterns dedication towards creating awesome games. It's impossible to please everyone but you guys are certainly pleasing the majority. Keep up the good work. It is appreciated!

#78 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

It's definitely a WTF license. They would never use a license like that today; only rock bands, movies, and TV shows. But I guess that's what the majority of us want so can't really complain.

Yes it is but boy did they ever nail this one. RBION is a great game, everything is in the right place.

#79 3 years ago

Thank you Jared for the update on the updates.

#80 3 years ago

I know generally ACDC is considered to have great code.

But inserts that still do nothing?

Really??

When it is complete might buy one.

#81 3 years ago

I greatly enjoy many a Stern game. But I also paid a butt load of $ for AVLE NIB. I loved the game but when I sold it after two years there were still no Wizard mode dots, no spinner rule and glitches. Operate THAT for 3-5 minutes!

#82 3 years ago

They're sitting on a goldmine. Finish up code, make the game appealing and buzz-worthy, whip the collector community into a frenzy to get the newly created flavour of the month, and then release a vault edition at the current market prices. Avengers is the perfect candidate. It's a great business model (for Stern).

#83 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

#1 earning pinball machine in the country right now:
wnbjm_tshirt_website_1.jpg
469835.jpg

And Walking Dead is 8. BS.

#84 3 years ago

Hate to admit it, but games benefit from having incomplete code on release. Having 6 months of 'beta' testing by collectors, competitiors, operators and Stern designers/coders is impossible to replicate prior to release. The games experience a kind of evolution.

I doubt ACDC, Metallica, TWD, Spider-Man etc would be the well balanced games they currently are, if they weren't first played extensively by the end users.

#85 3 years ago

Cooked71, doesnt GoT go against your theory?

#86 3 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

Cooked71, doesnt GoT go against your theory?

Possibly. Haven't spent much time on GOT, but I'm guessing there's a lot that still needs doing to make it a classic. Is the scoring balanced, are there any exploits? Are there parts of the game not integrated as well as they could be?

#87 3 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I doubt ACDC, Metallica, TWD, Spider-Man etc would be the well balanced games they currently are, if they weren't first played extensively by the end users.

Maybe, but all those titles have one name tied to them that make them great.

MET - done
SM - done
TWD - I could argue it is done
ACDC - inserts aside it feels complete
IM - done

Other games:
Kiss - not done
ST - better needs some bugs fixed
Avatar - bugs
XMen - wizard mode ends games, bugs
Avengers - Hulk needs code (in Hulk voice)
GoT - not done just released
WWE - lol
Mustang - ?????

#88 3 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

The coding is Sterns weakest spot, by far.
Could the topicstarter tell me which Stern pin is finished codewise?
None! That is how dedicated they are.

SM - done
IM - done
MET - what else is needed?

#89 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Maybe, but all those titles have one name tied to them that make them great.
MET - done
SM - done
TWD - I could argue it is done
ACDC - inserts aside it feels complete
IM - done
Other games:
Kiss - not done
ST - better needs some bugs fixed
Avatar - bugs
XMen - wizard mode ends games, bugs
Avengers - Hulk needs code (in Hulk voice)
GoT - not done just released
WWE - lol
Mustang - ?????

Lyman is the man, no question. Maybe it's his passion for pinball, his skill as a player, that drives him to make games great, not just good.

#90 3 years ago

I have bought a ton of sterns throughout the years and KISS and WWE need some serious code help; I still cannot believe the state of either game especially seeing and hearing about how good the code is for got. Kiss has seen almost no improvement since release and the same goes for wwe

#91 3 years ago

Kiss is a surprise to me......such a huge theme, and the game itself has all the marks of a classic. Pretty sure they won't let that go the way of WoF.

WWE would be suffering from low volume. How much more do they throw at it?

Such a shame they can't open games up to open source after a period of time. The community could do incredible things.

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Maybe, but all those titles have one name tied to them that make them great.
MET - done
SM - done
TWD - I could argue it is done
ACDC - inserts aside it feels complete
IM - done
Other games:
Kiss - not done
ST - better needs some bugs fixed
Avatar - bugs
XMen - wizard mode ends games, bugs
Avengers - Hulk needs code (in Hulk voice)
GoT - not done just released
WWE - lol
Mustang - ?????

and TRON- done

#93 3 years ago

I used to be a big NIB Stern customer. After IJ4, Batman, X-Men and Star Trek I am done buying new sterns when they are released.

Just wait until it's finished.. bought Tron and ACDC after they were finished.

So maybe I miss out of the occasional BIBLE or TronLE, but at least you don't get stuck with a game like Avengers, Xmen or WWE

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Other games:
Kiss - not done
ST - better needs some bugs fixed
Avatar - bugs
XMen - wizard mode ends games, bugs
Avengers - Hulk needs code (in Hulk voice)
GoT - not done just released
WWE - lol
Mustang - ?????

Mustang has a great rules set, but can use a final polish code upgrade. In particular, it would be REALLY nice if the backbox flashers - an advertised feature on the LE's - actually worked!

#95 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Other games:
Kiss - not done
ST - better needs some bugs fixed
Avatar - bugs
XMen - wizard mode ends games, bugs
Avengers - Hulk needs code (in Hulk voice)
GoT - not done just released
WWE - lol
Mustang - ?????

Mustang has great code.

Right now, Kiss & WWE are the games most in need of code. Given probable sales, Kiss needs the most attention.

#96 3 years ago

Thanks I forgot about Tron.

#97 3 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Mustang has a great rules set, but can use a final polish code upgrade. In particular, it would be REALLY nice if the backbox flashers - an advertised feature on the LE's - actually worked!

I agree. The pro seems to be more "done" then the LE. It is a great game.

#98 3 years ago

Also Batman is done.

#99 3 years ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

I used to be a big NIB Stern customer. After IJ4, Batman, X-Men and Star Trek I am done buying new sterns when they are released.
Just wait until it's finished.. bought Tron and ACDC after they were finished.
So maybe I miss out of the occasional BIBLE or TronLE, but at least you don't get stuck with a game like Avengers, Xmen or WWE

XMen was terrible when it was first released. It is a really good game now that needs bug fixes and tweaks. Stern just has to commit to finishing it.

Avengers is a good game, at least in my eyes. I enjoy playing mine and that's all that matters to me.

WWE I love as a theme, the layout is okay but the game code is just not enjoyable in my eyes. It needs help.

#100 3 years ago

So with all the the talk on Page one about how bad WOF is and how no one wants it, why the heck are they so hard to find? I figured if this really is the case there'd be plenty for sale. I've been trying to get the wife one as a gift for the past five years, but they seem to be unobtainium??

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