Bump for a stern update on this topic

They've got top men working on it.

....... Top men.......

In all seriousness what are you looking for an update on? We know they are working on Kiss and WWE, but they never give a time frame so not sure what else they are going to say?

Stay tuned?

Don't turn that dial ?

Man, I could go on and on, but it's not code I'll tell you that. I spend a lot of time on this forum because I love pinball and have time to kill.

But reading the front page sometimes looks like I'm watching MTV's I love the 80s. Gimme a #$% break!

Everyone wearing Jamz, Vans & Swatches

Well let's see they could say something along the lines of....

We know you are pumped for our next update and so are we. Here's a sneak peek at what will be included in the next update
- This fix - FIXED
- This new update - ADDED
- This bug - to fix
- This added feature - to create

That doesnt mean its 'ok' or that they couldnt start giving timelines around code releases...But that would take discipline on their part...

Is it a little weird the Stern social media dude has shut down his pinside account?
Is he still the stern social media dude?
Did they make him shut it down?
Does it have something to do with ghostbusters?

This is weird

Perhaps he has realized - like other vendors - that Pinside isn't a friendly place for vendors to hang out.

They have never given timelines for code. Jody said on a podcast they were hoping by Christmas for some updates then when that came and went people went ape shit. This is why they don't give time frames, they try to say we are shooting for this then when that doesn't happen people bring out the pitchforks faster than anything.

And honestly stern doesn't need to. The new games sell no matter what. I remember the Metallica code wait and everyone freaking out over it, saying I'm never buying NIB again. How many games hoe been released since then? And most of the people who said never NIB again were right there handing over money. Stern knows all they need is a cool theme and it will sell regardless and until people can put their wallets away nothing is going to change.

I'm just happy and grateful they listened and took the time to improve Avengers. Hope other games see similar updates without waiting years.

People go ape shit because Stern, at least from my knowledge, have never met a timeline date when they had set one in the past 3 years. That speaks volume in itself. If that's not the case someone could clarify this point for me.

While in some cases it might be true (You will never be able to get everyone on the same page). But I think times are chaning. I just bought my first NIB from them...but it's a TWD Pro with complete code. You will not see me buy NIB with unfinished code and I'm sure a lot more people are doing this these days then they use to 3 years ago. I still strongly believe in #wheresthecode as a principle. And I will not deviate from that course until Stern takes there head out of their ass. Games should be released with at least 80-90% of the code in place. This ensures that updates are less time consuming and that fixes could get released sooner.

I'm still giving them money to support them but it solely depends on them. If they decide to abandoned a game that I want, they will not see a dime from me until it is finished. And if more people would abide with this mentality Stern would have no choice but to change the way they do things.

With all that said. GOT seems to be on track to become the first game to get completed within 12 months. If that trend continues in the right direction. I will have nothing but praise for Stern. Only time will tell.

Stern will not post on Pinside anymore now that Jared has been run off will all the whining

People going ape shit because they are self-entitled assholes around here.
Things take time, and anything that happens unexpected takes MORE time, never less.
Although I think some here would expect to have Stern employees report any and all bumps in the road here, with explaination of problems and full reports on new timeframes and expectations, LoL!
Stern does NOT need to be micro-managed by Pinside, they don't owe anything here.
They tried to communicate some, and the bitterness and negativity ran them away.
But go on fooling yourself, don't forget to remind yourself that they would be out of business if it wasn't for YOU!
Remind everyone how much money YOU have spent, and what Stern owes YOU for that!
Maybe you could mock up the Stern/pinside time management weekly worksheet to get them going in the right direction,
I'm sure the programmers would love it.

Be smart like ZenTron, he doesn't buy pins with incomplete code.

(I have a deposit on Rob Zombie but wont have the pin till 2017 when code is mature)

1. They don't owe Pinside squat = correct. But they due owe their customers an explanation when it takes 3 years to give them an update. Avengers alone was a major PR problem that was never addressed until now. Now customers can somewhat bury that hatchet.

2. Stern doesn't owe me squat. I prevent this entire code update debacle because I buy my games when they are fully coded. (or close to)

3. Stern would not even blink if I didn't buy their games. They have plenty of fish that are happy bitching, doing nothing and then buying NIB as soon as they are announced...rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.....

4. I just pointed out that it would be smart of them to give people an update of were they stand on code. Whether it be saying that the next update is 80% ready or itemizing major accomplishment in an update. I'm not talking about a daily/weekly update. Hell they could just get people to subscribe to a newsletter they send out every two months for all I care. Like JJP is doing. It takes 2 minutes to write a note and it would solve a world of bitching. Instead they say they are working on the code. It's an open ended statement which opens them up to this kind of discussion. There is a reason why Stern get's more hate than other pinball manufacturers and it's not because they are the biggest but because they are the most closed up when it comes to "real" communication. I think out of all of them Spooky is doing the best job. JJP is not far behind but Stern is dead last.

Somewhere a strawman is looking for a few bales of missing hay...

Stern had a marketing guy post a fluff PR piece and then he didn't answer any questions. That does not equal communication.

I'd also note that being more disciplined and communicative about code releases (giving rough timelines regarding code releases) does not equate to being micromanaged.

Doing both of those things however, would equate to materially better customer support.

For those who cant take even constructive feedback about stern without blowing a gasket....Please, 'dislike' away.

DNO has it right.
Stern doesn't announce work-in-progress, nor do they promise deadlines or ETAs.
And still, idiots start complaining about how Stern NEEDS to do things differently.
Stern hired Jared to communicate with us, and too many assholes jumped on the hate wagon.
No more communication from Stern.
Stern hasn't even announced Ghostbusters yet, and already the Pinsider lynch-mob is bitching about various aspects that they don't like.
To me, that proves that Stern isn't seeking our approval, they don't care about your suggestions on running their business, or how they handle code releases.
Stern puts out the only titles I consider worthy of the current prices.
I agree with you Flash, in that I want to see proven code before I put cash down -but that doesn't give me reason to bitch about Stern.
Right now, Stern has a few different fully-coded pins available for sale. If you like the Game of Thrones theme, or Ghostbusters, you only have to wait a little longer.
Criticizing Stern for not releasing fully coded titles doesn't show that they're doing things wrong, it simply shows that you don't understand their business model.

What's absolutely awesome is how well they're doing right now. I placed an order for two pins back in November (?), and am still waiting for one of them. Yes, they were short of parts but also clearly have orders keeping them busy.

I guess there are enough happy customers out there with things just the way they are now.

Ha, not freaking out, or unable to see feedback.
Also flasinstict, comments NOT at you directly.
Bottom line to me is, Stern doesn't owe anyone here shit, yet many love to insist they do.
Occasionally, I indulge the endless debate around this. It's never worth it.
Pinball on people...

Haven't seen a single person here insisting they do.

Just making some pretty basic customer service suggestions I think.

Doesn't = 'stern shouldn't'

does jared still work for stern ?

His Linkedin says he does:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jared-guynes-a117531a

Nevermind, says Borg owns GTW Technologies, but the page has Stern listed up top.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-borg-a45797b?trk=pub-pbmap

I hope you are joking

Talk about taking stuff out of context. All i was saying is that JJP sends out progress emails once in a while. Stern sends out nothing.

I think you are misunderstanding peoples passion and desire for stern to provide BETTER customer service. We all want Stern to do better and we see obvious ways they can. Many of us also see obvious failures in previous code that sits unfinished and the games languish.

Stern doesn't owe anyone shit, but if they are in the business of making more money then they should want to provide more than they currently are.

At the same time, people with 5k toys and luxury items should be expected and encouraged to provide feedback.

I agree with most of what you said... Stern has done quite a bit to resolve software issues, so the large chunk of complaints in this thread are not as relevant today as they were a few years ago... some people just can't move past it.

An important point to consider... if Stern actually refocuses to deliver games with finished code from the outset, their business will no longer be setup to apply user feedback to rules updates. It is an advantage Stern has over the B/W days where operators got what they got, and everyone accepted it.

Back to your comment, I'll just say this: over half of Stern's sales today is to collectors. The LE is marketed as a collectors game. Pinside is the world wide focal point for pinball collectors. As such it's too harsh to say that Stern doesn't owe anything to Pinsiders, it represents their core customer base. It is a tough place for manufacturers to participate, and Robin has received many suggestions to make it more vendor friendly. I hope he can implement some of them.

in just over 2 weeks (19th March) it'll be the anniversary of the last ST code update...

I find that most companies are this way. They look at social media as another way to promote their product. They set up on FB, Twitter, etc. to "communicate" with their customers, but the reality is they want that to be a one-way conversation.

They are used to traditional advertising where they can say what they want, how they want and when they want. They are used to making fluffy promises with small print you can't read, and not having to hear you yell at your TV.

It does say a lot about a company in the way they respond to their customers on line. Will the ignore/block a person? Or will they take the complaints seriously and actually try and improve things?

Two years ago (or so) I asked (nicely) about the timing of acode update on their FB page and was immediately blocked.

I'm so jelous of those Woz owners who've been getting regular updates.

It's a lot easier when you only have one game to worry about

Stern has at least 4-5x more employees, though. That should make things similar, given Stern's higher annual pin count, unless the Stern emphasis is not on code updates to finish and polish games, but just cranking out more unfinished games to keep growing revenue. Wheel of Fortune is an extreme example, but that is pathetic. The game plays like a beta.

That's really insulting to Keith P. Johnson, Lyman F. Sheats Jr. and Lonnie D. Ropp...
WoF comes with fairly complete code, with the notable exception of the final wizard mode. I challenge you to finish what's already coded.

How can it be an insult to them if they weren't ALLOWED to finish it? They weren't. I don't blame them, I blame Stern, which is the proper place for blame in matters of this sort. Keith has shown he's more than willing and able to polish the crap out of pinball code - his latest WoZ 6.06 update is amazing. But maybe that culture of encouraging code polishing long after release is why he's at JJP and not Stern.

Even some beta software is more than "Fairly complete," right? Do you have a WoF? I did for almost a year. I assure you there's a lot more missing than the final wizard mode. Lots of rough edges everywhere that become blatant when you have 24x7 access to a fully working machine. No excuse is good enough to explain why they left it in the condition they did.

...which makes it all the more mystifying that Stern's standard business practice is to allow multiple games to languish with half-arsed code.

It doesn't feel like this is Stern's practice. Instead, they're just super slow about getting the games up to par (a year or so after release). Once the code is done, it's way beyond just implementing the features and is usually quite good.

Me too. I mean, seriously - Version 6! That's SIX! Stern are only on version 1 for most games still, the big fat slackers...

I can't wait for JJP to reach version 11 - it's going to be 1 better than 10.

Fair enough - and totally true about them not being able to finish it - sadly probably no chance it ever gets completed now that Keith Johnson works for JJP.
What made me react was calling it pathetic. Never owned a WoF but that was the pin at the nearest location from my home for 2 years. Spent a fair amount of $ on that one: I have seen worse than WoF.

But doesn't this come back to the basic question: When the game goes out the door, shouldn't the code be complete already? As customers, what level of completion should we reasonably expect to have?

I don't expect perfection, and yes they will find some bugs that need to be addressed. But I don't think they should release things with the intention that they'll keep working on it over time - the danger is that there isn't enough time or budget to go back.

I'd like to see them be able to just focus on the game that's coming up, and the next one down the road. The more time they spend on past games, the less time they are putting into the next ones. Plus, how long should they keep looking back? Some people are talking about code for games they made 7 or 8 years ago.

I know it won't happen but I'd rather see a game get delayed but come out complete, rather than on time with missing code.

TWD is a great example of a game I had zero interest in. Didn't like it when it came out. Code was rubbish. Theme was a meh for me.

Roll on to the last Lyman code update.

Played it and suddenly it might be the best Stern game I have played. So, I then bought a premium.

If Stern code games to this level, the production line is busy like it is now, producing TDW premium's.

Hoping for a final update on this classic.

I think the problem is that they have to keep the factory moving constantly otherwise they're paying a ton of factory workers to do nothing or laying them off and constantly hiring and training new folks due to that. A week delay in a game could be a huge cost. The stern factory is why they can crank out a run in a couple weeks where other companies take 6 months to do it.

That's all well and good for the folks working there and not being layed off! Mean's that STERN is making a lot of $$$
So in theory STERN should be able to pay one person to final the coding on each machine correct? ...

Are there examples of this, besides the outlier that is WoF?

Is this not what they do?

We keep talking about what Stern should be doing with the release of a new game and the code but it feels as though everyone is forgetting about GOT which is Stern's newest (non VE) game that they have released. That code was in really good shape when it first shipped. There were some bugs that were found but the game was complete. There are things that we as a community would like to have added but we can't argue it wasn't complete because there are features we'd like to add.

My point in this response is I think we continue to look at the past and are forgetting the current to quickly.

I wont argue that code is still a challenge with Stern but we also need to admit they have heard our complaints and are making strides to improve on them and GOT to me was an example of this.