(Topic ID: 171070)

About priced out of this hobby!


By nitrojcrawf

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 37 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by MikeS
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“With new pricing are you:”

  • In 6 votes
    6%
  • Out 92 votes
    94%

(98 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

Topic Gallery

One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

image (resized).jpeg

#1 3 years ago

I was really excited about the new releases from Stern and JJP. The new games look awesome but man, what gives with the pricing. As a hobbyist collector and small route guy I just can't afford these anymore. As a Lawlor fan I was excited about his game and with it being an unlicensed game I was expecting a better price point. The new Stern game looks great but between not still receiving my Ghostbusters game I paid for in March/April and quality issues of the last few games I can't be to excited. Now I know they said this price structure was ONLY for the Batman unit but the writing is on the wall.

#2 3 years ago

Yeah they have priced people right out of the hobby totally crazy prices and bad for business. Most people won't pay these prices or can't pay these prices.

#3 3 years ago

Amazes me what people will spend money on. $5000 to $10000 for a NIB machine?? And to top it off, most of them suck anyway. Not a fan of these new games.

12
#4 3 years ago

I'm a little confused..

Is the 'hobby' "buying pins"? For me, it was always PLAYING them. Prices can continue to rise, I have my games, I will continue to play them, and IF I want to add to my lineup, I will go out and buy a used game.

I see a lot of posts about prices 'forcing people out of the hobby', and I'm wondering if I'm just not in the same hobby everyone else is. My hobby is playing my games, playing pinball in general. Not buying and selling.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from venom112:

Yeah they have priced people right out of the hobby totally crazy prices and bad for business. Most people won't pay these prices or can't pay these prices.

Unfortunately, people will need to stop buying these machines before prices will come down. However it seems there is no shortage of people willing to pay these silly prices. The bubble has to burst at some point. If people stop buying, JJP and Stern will get the picture and prices will surely come down.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

I'm a little confused..
Is the 'hobby' "buying pins"? For me, it was always PLAYING them. Prices can continue to rise, I have my games, I will continue to play them, and IF I want to add to my lineup, I will go out and buy a used game.
I see a lot of posts about prices 'forcing people out of the hobby', and I'm wondering if I'm just not in the same hobby everyone else is. My hobby is playing my games, playing pinball in general. Not buying and selling.

Unfortunately in some parts of the world, finding pinball machines on site to play is easier said than done. The closest pinball machine to my place is a 45 minute drive away. Their is a big appeal to owing your own machine. When prices are so high like this, it makes it hard to justify owning a new machine.

#7 3 years ago

I, like others, was very excited in anticipation of the new JJP release and thought it'd be in the 6.5k range. Since, it's not a widebody, no license fees, and try to pick up some new customers with entry level NIB pricing. I was wrong.

Problem is these outrageous NIB prices will begin to price some people out of the hobby because they're just going to make it that much more difficult to find quality title used machines at reasonable prices. These new releases were supposed to open the floodgates of people selling their used games to buy these new ones. Doesn't look like that's the case.

#8 3 years ago

They might cash in now by raising prices, i think there will still be alot of people that will still buy, but what will these companies do if we hit another recession?

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Capinball:

Since, it's not a widebody, no license fees, and try to pick up some new customers with entry level NIB pricing. I was wrong.

I actually thought this myself. I thought a lower price was going to be one of the surprises.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from crlush:

They might cash in now by raising prices, i think there will still be alot of people that will still buy, but what will these companies do if we hit another recession?

Pinball sales tend to thrive in a recession. I had TONS of families contacting me to sell them games because the 9k they had set aside for a vacation was down to about 3-4k. They would rather have something in the home for the family then the vacation at the 3-4k price point. If games are now priced at the same price point as a nice family vacation, I can tell you which way a family is going to lean, and it doesn't involve pinball.

#11 3 years ago

I was thinking the same, having it around 7 to 7,500 being a non-liscensed and it should have been called Sim City. 9 k is way too much. Maybe they thought they could raise the price cause Stern keeps doing it.....I don't get it

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

I'm a little confused..
Is the 'hobby' "buying pins"? For me, it was always PLAYING them. Prices can continue to rise, I have my games, I will continue to play them, and IF I want to add to my lineup, I will go out and buy a used game.
I see a lot of posts about prices 'forcing people out of the hobby', and I'm wondering if I'm just not in the same hobby everyone else is. My hobby is playing my games, playing pinball in general. Not buying and selling.

I see your point, but I think he's referring to the collecting part of the market. I, for one, cannot afford these prices that Stern is setting. Sure, I still love playing the pins, but in my area we STILL really don't have a place to go play the pins (especially the newer ones). Usually the only time I get to play one of the newer pins is if I buy one, or a buddy of mine buys one and I get invited over to play it.

#13 3 years ago

I was priced out a couple of years ago.

#14 3 years ago

I'll let my money do the talking, decided against JJP and Stern, will get Alien, hope that Houdini will be reasonably priced

#15 3 years ago

Just because a couple new games are stupid money doesn't mean the hobby is dead. Spooky and Heighway are making competitively priced new games. 99% of games from 1930-2012 remain relatively affordable, or at least you can find a fun game at literally any budget.

It's like a new Lamborghini was announced and people are worried that the common man is now priced out of driving cars.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from DefaultGen:

Just because a couple new games are stupid money doesn't mean the hobby is dead. Spooky and Heighway are making competitively priced new games. 99% of games from the 1930-2012 remain relatively affordable, or at least you can find a fun game at literally any budget.
It's like a new Lamborghini was announced and people are worried that the common man is now priced out of driving cars.

Well said!

-1
#17 3 years ago

This is Peak Pinball..they're bringing on the second death of pinball themselves, this time we had nothing to do with it. Wait till they perfect the Oculus Rift type stuff, they will sell for 500 bucks, The VR goggles will kill pinball a second time.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

This is Peak Pinball..they're bringing on the second death of pinball themselves, this time we had nothing to do with it. Wait till they perfect the Oculus Rift type stuff, they will sell for 500 bucks, The VR goggles will kill pinball a second time.

So tired of hearing this. Market can crash, fine. Its not going to be because VR.

Why do pins age better than vids? The physicality of the experience.

What does VR lack? Actual physicality. VR will kill arcade driving games. It will kill those massive projector machines. It could also kill light gun games. It is not a replacement for physical based games. VR isn't going to replace skeeball until they figure out how to give someone the sensation of throwing a real ball.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from dung:

So tired of hearing this. Market can crash, fine. Its not going to be because VR.
Why do pins age better than vids? The physicality of the experience.
What does VR lack? Actual physicality. VR will kill arcade driving games. It will kill those massive projector machines. It could also kill light gun games. It is not a replacement for physical based games. VR isn't going to replace skeeball until they figure out how to give someone the sensation of throwing a real ball.

Edit: I would absolutely LOVE it if some original Skee-Ball machines made it into the 31st century.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from dung:

So tired of hearing this. Market can crash, fine. Its not going to be because VR.
Why do pins age better than vids? The physicality of the experience.
What does VR lack? Actual physicality. VR will kill arcade driving games. It will kill those massive projector machines. It could also kill light gun games. It is not a replacement for physical based games. VR isn't going to replace skeeball until they figure out how to give someone the sensation of throwing a real ball.

So how did Pac Man kill pinball the first time around?

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from DefaultGen:

Just because a couple new games are stupid money doesn't mean the hobby is dead. Spooky and Heighway are making competitively priced new games. 99% of games from 1930-2012 remain relatively affordable, or at least you can find a fun game at literally any budget.
It's like a new Lamborghini was announced and people are worried that the common man is now priced out of driving cars.

You can't keep dressing up a KIA and sell it as a Ferari!

#22 3 years ago

Back in the 90s I remember going to the VR arcade next to the real arcade. This was around the same time that Lawnmower Man came out. The arcade outlasted VR arcade. $10 a play really didn't stand the test of time. Maybe if they had a ticket dispenser attached to them....

Virtual reality will continue to be an alternative option to those limited in space or having never played a physical machine.

image (resized).jpeg

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from Capinball:

I, like others, was very excited in anticipation of the new JJP release and thought it'd be in the 6.5k range. Since, it's not a widebody, no license fees, and try to pick up some new customers with entry level NIB pricing. I was wrong.
Problem is these outrageous NIB prices will begin to price some people out of the hobby because they're just going to make it that much more difficult to find quality title used machines at reasonable prices. These new releases were supposed to open the floodgates of people selling their used games to buy these new ones. Doesn't look like that's the case.

I think the trickle effect you describe is going to be what determines how many are squeezed out. The significantly higher NIB prices are undoubtedly going to cause many to go after older titles, which will raise their price.

#24 3 years ago

Out at these NIB prices. Still love the hobby and will keep playing the classics and buying secondary market for some games. This pricing for new games just doesn't make any sense to me and they just lost this NIB customer. Pinball still rocks though!

#25 3 years ago

I Paid $250 for a project Solar City about a month ago. For about another hundred in parts, and a crapload of time (lots of time needed), it will end up being a nice game.

I'm saying this because this hobby has plenty of games that don't cost $9000. There are other options. Granted, the deals are fewer and farther between, but they still exist. Anyone being priced out of the hobby must have expectations of needing to have the latest and greatest game. That isn't where pinball lives.

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

So how did Pac Man kill pinball the first time around?

Inflation and the cost of labor killed pinball. The death of arcades has to do with home console's increasingly powerful hardware and software development cost of 3d.

Arcades/video games were seen as a fad. As atari, Mattel, and the like continued to pump out more and more garbage games the public finally got fed up and stopped buying. This lead to the video game crash of the early 80's.

Nintendo's nes brought video games back for consoles and made them viable. The problem is once you get to the mid 90's and the rise of 3d the cost of development sky rocketed. The last great boom for arcades is the early 90's. Right as you are starting to get 3d. Think SF2, Virtua Fighter, Mortal Kombat.

Thing is consoles caught up. Saturn, Playstation, and N64 started to provide a close enough experience. Sure, it was cut down compared to arcades, but the gameplay was close. Video games could no longer be developed by a single person or a small team. The cost of the software soared and arcades start using slightly upgraded consoles. This reduces development cost and allows the games to be ported much more easily. It also removes incentive for people to go to arcades when they can play at home.

Inflation is the other factor that killed arcades. Games hit 25 cents in the 80's. Start of the 90's and games started costing 50 cents. This was fine, but for whatever reason we have a hangup when a game costs a dollar. .50 cents in 1990 is the same as .92 cents today. Despite this many people will not drop a dollar to play a game.

Pinball? Pinball had to deal with the death of arcades, the rising inflation, and the mere fact that by design they are labor intensive to maintain. Even if Arcades were still thriving pinball does not make money and you can read about that in any number of posts on pinside and rgp from Operators who explain the economics.

So, no get off your soap box about VR. Until you have tactile feedback it is not going to touch the pin market. They are catering to very different experiences.

#27 3 years ago

I'm relatively new to the hobby (4 years), so when I started, I came in with the same mentality that I use for purchasing a bicycle.

You're buying the loss and not the original purchase. Buying a new bike every year that costs 8k sounds crazy, but when you sell it for 6.5k it's only 1.5k of a loss. For 1.5k I was able to ride the best bike for 1 year. That's not bad when you consider the benefits and enjoyment that was experienced. The same goes for a pinball machine.

I have room for 10 machines so I like to rotate them and learn/experience all the machines I can. If you purchase one of the NIB machines and get a good deal from a good distributor, your loss when you sell a HUO machine will be about 1-1.5k. Yes it's a loss, but what was the value on the enjoyment you had?

Being that I'm not a collector and I'd consider myself a player who likes to enjoy the latest games in the comfort of my home. This type of reasoning is how I cope with the ever increasing prices and also my wife that thinks I'm nuts.

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from dung:

Inflation and the cost of labor killed pinball. The death of arcades has to do with home console's increasingly powerful hardware and software development cost of 3d.
Arcades/video games were seen as a fad. As atari, Mattel, and the like continued to pump out more and more garbage games the public finally got fed up and stopped buying. This lead to the video game crash of the early 80's.
Nintendo's nes brought video games back for consoles and made them viable. The problem is once you get to the mid 90's and the rise of 3d the cost of development sky rocketed. The last great boom for arcades is the early 90's. Right as you are starting to get 3d. Think SF2, Virtua Fighter, Mortal Kombat.
Thing is consoles caught up. Saturn, Playstation, and N64 started to provide a close enough experience. Sure, it was cut down compared to arcades, but the gameplay was close. Video games could no longer be developed by a single person or a small team. The cost of the software soared and arcades start using slightly upgraded consoles. This reduces development cost and allows the games to be ported much more easily. It also removes incentive for people to go to arcades when they can play at home.
Inflation is the other factor that killed arcades. Games hit 25 cents in the 80's. Start of the 90's and games started costing 50 cents. This was fine, but for whatever reason we have a hangup when a game costs a dollar. .50 cents in 1990 is the same as .92 cents today. Despite this many people will not drop a dollar to play a game.
Pinball? Pinball had to deal with the death of arcades, the rising inflation, and the mere fact that by design they are labor intensive to maintain. Even if Arcades were still thriving pinball does not make money and you can read about that in any number of posts on pinside and rgp from Operators who explain the economics.
So, no get off your soap box about VR. Until you have tactile feedback it is not going to touch the pin market. They are catering to very different experiences.

You don't know jack son....I was there. They could not compete with vids popularity , it wasn't the cost. You forgot Pin2k? The direction Williams took to save pinball at the end? I'll get off the soap box as soon you get off your high horse, careful not to step in the dung.

#29 3 years ago

so when Ferrari releases their latest model, do you complain that you are priced out of the car market? there are other options, you know.

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

so when Ferrari releases their latest model, do you complain that you are priced out of the car market? there are other options, you know.

Yes, you are priced out of the hobby when every single broken E.M. costs $8,000.

Until then...we're all still in it, baby!

Right now, think of how many pinball machine titles are in the universe. Then, calculate how many of them cost over $6,000 (or, whatever your dream price is for new games). What you'll find is that an overwhelming number of pinballs are NOT pricing you out of the hobby.

Pete

#31 3 years ago

My 2 cents?
What's going to kill NIB pinball are the many things in Life that continue to escalate: increased local taxes and fees for local services, more taxes for schools and pension funds that are WAY in red, and increased costs for health care. Most businesses (and employees) will be seeing 30% average increases for health plan coverage in 2017.

Look at what YOU considered your 'disposable' income 5 years ago -, in the case of most folks, that sort of income or pocket money is slowly being eroded away by things in Life, such as the above.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

You don't know jack son....I was there. They could not compete with vids popularity , it wasn't the cost. You forgot Pin2k? The direction Williams took to save pinball at the end? I'll get off the soap box as soon you get off your high horse, careful not to step in the dung.

Have a Bachelors and Masters in New Media ie my education is geared toward making video games and computer graphics. Had to study the history of this. Experienced the 90's highs and subsequent death both in the us and abroad. Built a functioning arcade game from scratch for my bachelors including going through the entire design process (story boards, design document, playtesting through board games, hardware design, cabinet design etc). Also certain I have more experience playing with industry grade vr longer than you've been wagging your tongue over the current crop of consumer grade toys.

Fun thing about the internet mr keyboard warrior, people come from all walks of life, and sometimes their experience in a particular field far outstrips yours.

#33 3 years ago

For the sake of people reading this back and fro...I'm going to yield to the gentleman who outranks me in Pinball.

#34 3 years ago

I would say I am not priced out. But things are shifting. I used to be a NIB buyer. And I had already made my decision to become a HUO buyer because I can't justify the costs. When I got into this in 2008, games were 4K NIB. I could justify it up until the point of around 7K, now I just can't do it anymore. And I refuse to buy pro models. I am an all or nothing type of guy.

Where these crazy prices are going to hurt, change my buying is in the secondary market. I was hoping KissLE and GB would eventually come down in price to where I could justify them. With these new prices, and the games not being well received, I don't see those buyers dumping games to get the newest and greatest.

I know games that are bought such as TWDLE and WOZLE are looking like pretty good deals now and I won't be selling those titles any time soon. If one of these new games was a must have my WOZ may have been on the market.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from billyboy:

You're buying the loss and not the original purchase. Buying a new bike every year that costs 8k sounds crazy, but when you sell it for 6.5k it's only 1.5k of a loss. For 1.5k I was able to ride the best bike for 1 year. That's not bad when you consider the benefits and enjoyment that was experienced. The same goes for a pinball machine.
I have room for 10 machines so I like to rotate them and learn/experience all the machines I can. If you purchase one of the NIB machines and get a good deal from a good distributor, your loss when you sell a HUO machine will be about 1-1.5k. Yes it's a loss, but what was the value on the enjoyment you had?
Being that I'm not a collector and I'd consider myself a player who likes to enjoy the latest games in the comfort of my home. This type of reasoning is how I cope with the ever increasing prices and also my wife that thinks I'm nuts.

I was approaching it in a similar way. I can justify a 800 to 1000 dollar hit if I cycle through a game every 12 to 18 months but this last jump for me is it.

#36 3 years ago

I have been purchasing NIB games almost exclusively for years. With the rising prices of NIB games my last three purchases have been TAF, WH20 and Safecracker. Not sure if I can justify the $$ of NIB anymore for the amount of fun I receive.

#37 3 years ago

I don't feel priced out of the hobby yet but reasonably priced NIB options are starting to really dry up! I'm really hoping Stern Pro's stick around the $5K price point. Standard Heighway games and Spooky are still options as well. Everything else is beyond what I'm willing to pay though.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 21.00
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 279.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside