You have to limit the thumbs up so it doesn't evolve into what happened to karma points.

Buddies will be helping each other, not to mention thumbing up one word posts.

LTG : )

I'm all for killing karma-- As long as there is a fairly good way to identify the good guys. Take Vid1900 for example. His posts are extremely helpful.

Maybe give moderators a power that is the opposite of a ban. With 3 or 4 moderators' tags (which could also be removed), a user could get "elite" status or something. Could it be abused? Sure. But I think it would help show who the real power players are.

No wonder! You would be promoted to Pinball Godfather (or whatever is highest and above legend) within a few days!

I worried about that.

I wonder if what ever is used, Robin could exclude me from it ?

I'm just here to try and help. And could tip the scales away from others working hard here too that deserve the thumbs up.

LTG : )

IMO and it is only that it is not a perfect world if it were I would own all the pins I wanted. The implementation of a rep/vote to ban system would likely intensify group mentality and silence those with an unpopular but not necessarily negative view point. There will always be some that want to abuse the system and a system like this would likely entice them to do so. Like creating multiple accounts to thumbs down a certain Pinsider they don't like to silence them. I would love to enjoy/join the discussions more and not have to worry about keeping the peace so if I turned out to be wrong I would love it.

True, Dude. The system is fine as it is. No matter HOW it's changed, someone will figure a way to abuse it. I think with a growing website even more Mods are needed to keep everything going smooth.

Who did you have in mind?

Oh no...not me. I'm too opposed to the negative stuff. Everything doesn't have to be all sickly sweet, but at least civil.

Very good question. I bet Robin is listening.

Any thoughts on changing the "ignore" feature so that it goes both ways? Make it so your own posts are invisible to the person you wish to ignore?

Excluding them from seeing your content seems more powerful.

I think that's a great idea - someone goes off the deep end or ran out of meds and is posting some crazy stuff the community can band together and..... lets say 10 thumbs down in 3 post or more within 24 hrs get's you X amount of days of vacation/ time away

the majority of the folks can then keep the site in the right direction

I wouldn't leave that kind of power in the hands of the posters. Too many possy gangbangs that would happen just because someone doesn't like someone else.

I wonder if removing the karma points will achieve much. If you look on the left at the lists that show number of posts and number of thumbs up you see that it's pretty much connected.
Make a lot of posts, get a lot of thumbs up. At least with the current way of keeping score you can
see that it takes certain people, LTG for example, fewer posts to get the thumbs up.
I've also noticed that people that ask questions and receive some good and often time consuming advice don't take the time to give a thumbs up to that person.
In short, is the current system that broken that it needs to be thrown out completely? You'd probably
create a lot of new problems instead.

pure rep systems are just as hard to moderate.. because of 'invalid' or underserved rep. People play revenge, etc.

As simple as it sounds.. a 'like' system has been the most productive I can see over my years. Count thumbs up (and keep showing who leaves them like you do now) and thumbs down either

- enough cause the post to be hidden (commonly used in commenting systems)
- count thumbs down seperately
- or don't have a thumbs down and just a 'report' button that flags the mods

If you have a points balance that the negative feedback hits.. you will have to manage it. Trust me, you don't want that. The negative feedback should be used to flag moderators or bury the post.

The retailiation and ganging up that happens with negative feedback usually makes it more hassle than it's worth.

Reward good behavior.. leave the bad to the moderators.

Karma isnt the problem ok so who cares if someone is a karma whore who cares its obviously important to that person even though i couldnt care less about my karma score or not.

Look at the most popular threads it anger threads rip on madd amusements, of the hell with stern? Oh another jersey jack hate thread every wants posativity well look at the statistics the most popular threads are hate threads.

And OMG nobody better describe their machine as a high end restoration look at the poor guy that announced his high end restored Congo had half the site rip his machine apart and make him feel like shit and his closing words were he wasnt going to waste his time trying to deal with pinsiders for sale posts anymore. where were the mods then?

I look at pinside daily and its 20 post of the same thing now its all the metalllica or Wizard of oz oh Hobbit machine Im baffled why people are complaining about a machine that hasnt even started the design phase yet let alone dump cash on it but then everyone complains it takes too long to get the machine blah blah i hate cointaker blah blah

Neo is right there is far less technical help etc like RPG used to have but more nonsense or repeat threads, such as 103k party 104k party etc who cares just shows some people spend more time on posting than any pinball to me.

Karma isnt the problem its the fact people tend to gravitate more to negativity than to helping each other or having intelligent conversations for the most part anymore.

What about the star trek mirror universe we need more threads like that, drama, crying, boredom etc just going to kill this site.

If YOU don't like Threads like this...JUST DON'T GO THERE! Easy Breezy!
(some of us DO)

Remove thumbs down altogether and add a penalty for false flagging of posts with the !! link (if that isn't implemented already). Although thumbs down does not currently affect karma, groups of interested members can still give a post a massive thumbs down, which may deter users from reading the post if they judge just by post rating.

I would also suggest adding a poll to this thread on how it should be done.

Threads like this one...
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-the-shadow-3

This shows where the mods need to be active if you actually want to build a positive community.. several of the responses in that FS thread have no constructive value at all about the sale and just hurt the attitude and environment here.

It is all about the 'broken windows...' model. Negativity and nastiness breeds more. You can have freedom of opinion without requiring anarchy. Stuff that derails or focuses on the poster vs the post should be removed and the contributors warned. Those that just exist to be the peanut gallery and rub people wrong.. should be removed.

I agree

I think it's been stated before, it's not the off topic threads as much as it pushes the more pinball related threads to the bottom. Maybe just keep the off topic forum from being posted to the recent topics page. This way if you want that sort of stuff you need to go to the off topic sub forum, it will be on the top there. Just a thought.

Not a bad thought.

You can uncheck the Off Topic forum using the selections on the left of the main page.

The site already has this ability. I have certain subforums unchecked on the home page so I dont see them in the list. If I want to see those, then I will go directly to that subforum. Robin has done a great job building this site so we can all tailor it to our own tastes. I personally enjoy a lot of the off topic threads and like to see them mixed in with the home page.

My point is, we already have the ability on this site to manage what we like and don't like on an individual level (Thanks Robin). I feel like this thread is starting to create yet another division instead of harmony. Karma vs no karma. I have even started to get discouraged about the future of the site because of it.

There is a system that allows us to alert mods about abuse. There is a system to reward people for good posts. There is a system to filter content based on preferences. You can see who is online. You can make a list of favorite topics. Etc. Etc. There is even a fun little toy called pinside karma points, and now we are arguing about what this toy should or shouldn't be about. Really???

What is it that is really missing on this site? Do we not already have the ability to handle pretty much anything that someone might post?

Anther note on karma points...

flynnibus has roughly 800 points
Crash has 66K
Koolfingers has 1800
Herg has 17.5K
I have 25K
Ted has 18 bazillion

All good posters in my opinion.

It didn't occur to me to read their posts and then look at their karma points to see if their thoughts qualify for consideration. Good posts are good posts and bad ones are...

Hey!...I have 20 more than Pinchroma...just sayin'

Karma Schmarma

mcmurphy.jpg chiefmcmurphy.jpg

Welcome back, Samuel. Missed your profile pic...

Exactly right.

Which is why Karma points are completely and utterly meaningless.

I didn't know those features existed, thank you (and thank you Robin).

Absolutely true.

Meaningless, yes....But just a little fun too?....Yes! I enjoy the karma points as part of my experience here. I look forward to that next level. Not that I expect it to mean anything to anyone else, but just for the reward for playing the game. Aren't we all here because we enjoy playing a game where the object is scoring more points or making it to the next level?

Just because it's meaningless, does not necessarily mean it needs to be done away with. If the karma system is actually causing problems with the health of the site then I have no issue with changing it. But maybe the site problems (if there really are any) are being caused by people (not karma points) who just can't get along well with others......and there is already a system in place to deal with that.

......just my 18 bazillion cents......

I'm one who doesn't believe that the Karma thing causes too many people to actually post more just to get more Karma. But, there *are* notable and obvious exceptions to this.

The interesting thing about the Karma points system, and somebody else mentioned this previously in the thread, doing away with it may very well lead to me actually posting *more* often than I do now! Having so much "Karma" can give the impression of being a "post whore" and someone who posts tons of meaningless crap (and yeah, I have my share of those types of posts), but believe it or not, I do actually start typing a response to a post and delete it before hitting the "send post" button because I don't want to add 15 more meaningless Karma points to my already stupidly high total.

I'm 100% in favor of doing away with the Karma system.

Of course now that I've said that it might actually lead me to posting *more*, everyone else will now be in favor of keeping it.

Interesting....Do you think there are a lot of people out there who get that impression of "Karma Whore" when they see your high numbers? I truly don't know.

It never would have occurred to me. I look at your number and say to myself "He's been here a while". Then I read your posts and and make moral and character judgements about you!

Joking of course.

If someone won't take your posts seriously because they have decided you are a karma whore, isn't it their loss for being a dipsh!t in the first place? Does it affect the content or credibility of your post at all?

This is a very fun conversation to me, BTW! I am really enjoying it and am sad that I have to step away from the computer for a while. Gotta get the grill fired up!!

All good points.

I think most people here are obviously capable of developing their own opinions on a posters credibility without looking at their Karma points, but rather their posting history. That's another reason in favor of doing away with the Karma system.

The way I look at it is that given my high Karma number, I am a bit less likely to make a short post that doesn't say too much, as it is more likely to be looked at by some as nothing more than an attempt to accumulate Karma. There's no truth to it, because I honestly don't care about Karma points at all. Yes, they can indicate that I've been here awhile, but so can simply posting the "Member Since" info next to the username.

Doing away with the Karma system would result in those who truly do post for the purpose of accumulating Karma points in no longer having an incentive to do so.

I've previously mentioned the possibility of having Karma based solely on things like thumbs up received, but even that idea is very flawed and subject to abuse.

I don't care one about karma pt.s. No matter how you adjust the system they are still irrelevant. I do admit that the thumbs ups are kind of cool, because it lets you know what other pinsiders are on the same page or you can relate to. And they make you feel good. I also prefer short posts that get to the point, instead of paragraph after paragraph of nothingness. That's just me.

******scouring pinside for any long posts bu o-din******

I agree with you on the thumbs ups. Makes me feel much better than seeing my karma points go up.

RobT, I like the member since idea. Lets just not dump the karma thing expecting it to fix a problem because I don't believe it will.

You may have to go back a couple of months.

******still scouring******

I don't know this but I feel a lot of the complaints folks have about Karma scores are connotative. If it were "pinside activity" or even "jackpot value" maybe few would care.

Another suggestion I had is sort of the opposite of the "ignore" feature (**Positive feature alert, Robin!!**) Basically there are a number of people who regularly post stuff that I find interesting. I'll sort of scan through threads for their posts (often just by recognizing the backglass avatar, which works for some but not all). What if I could add them to my favorite posters list and their entire posts would always be highlighted in a different color? Then I could really fly through long threads quickly, potentially saving me time AND money

Hint- something about football

No fun if I have to use a hint to find it! I give up for now. I will find it though and make you eat your words!! Short posts. Hmpf!

Why bother, I only said "prefer"

True. I prefer shorter posts too. I do ER long winded sometimes though. Enjoyed your o-din sighting party video. Looked like a blast!!

It was! I can't wait for the next one. Even in school, I never was much for writing epic stories. I'd rather just have an epic good time.

I just read this entire thread...and I can truly say, almost every post has something meaningful to add...and thats the point, good minds contributing and offering different opinions. I wish I had the technical knowledge that some of you have, but I dont. Im just a person who likes to play pinball! I come here to learn, but I also enjoy the entertainment value. So many intelligent minds offering thier opinions on all sorts of topics. Whats not to like. If the personal attacks would end..it would be a heck of a lot better. Pinside has grown because of all the diversity. Dont limit the content, but respect the rules of the house.

I reiterate my suggestion of "Credits" as members would be getting "credit" for being a good citizen. "Jackpot" and "Bonus" imply a payoff: when, and what?

Although one never runs up hundreds of credits on a game, I realize... but most metaphors don't bear close scrutiny.

On another topic, I'd like to be able to hide threads individually. You could even extend that to give threads a score whereby if too many people hide it, it could be hidden automatically, at a user-specified threshold. That might take care of a lot of the fluff.

I love the idea of "my favorite pinsiders". This is a feature I looked for when I was first active on pinside. It wasn't there but I never thought to ask for it. I think that would be a great feature that would help connect people even more!!

I'd like to put in another vote for using "Credits" and adding a "my favorite pinsider" feature.
As mentioned before (can't find by who anymore), limiting the amount of thumbs down a person can give to how many thumbs up he/ she has received will make misusing it more difficult.