Quoted from Erik:There was a brief period when karma pts were removed for a thumbs down. Technically it was a pop bumper not a thumb at the time but it was a similar idea. As you might imagine a vocal minority got hard feelings when the scores for their posts dropped slightly so it was removed.
I think it was also a matter of Robin wanting to maintain a "positive" atmosphere here. That has always been one of his main priorities.
I say Kill the Karma All 2-gether ..... Ego is All it is . I've Always tried to Boost Pinside w/ my Threads , Shop day on Saturday Videos , Pin Auction Threads and Videos . Then I get Banned for a Joke i Posted that made Alot Laugh and 2 say " Hmmm " and the System took 17,513 Pts .
10 to 1 ,, You Kill the Karma and Members will Post Less .. Totem Poll B.S . Try it & see
Worked 4 me ... " I'm Not Whinning , I'm just stating the Truth .."
the problem is, what is quality to some, is not to others. For me if someone posts correct tech support (which is once in a while), or something that makes me laugh. I give it thumbs up. If it talks about useless mods and obvious attempt to create buzz and hype for a game to jack up prices, then it's irritating. I still dont' give it thumbs down unless they are directly attacking me personally. Either way, I could give a crap about Karma. Maybe that's a WI thing, because it seems most of us don't care over here.
There's alot of talk about karma points here. I don't see usefulness of karma points. Some people post one word just to get points. What does that bring to the game of pinball or to this website for that matter. I would stick with the thumbs up and down. Some think that friends will give thumbs up to a one word post or a post with absolutely no content I can't believe that. Robin you have a great website here and have done great job with it. I have a suggestion bring karma points to a vote to keep or not to keep.
Quoted from pinballman100:Some people post one word just to get points.
No! 
I'd get rid of the karma points. Maybe keep the thumbs up/down for posts but don't track it per individual.
Just my 2¢
In the time I've been coming here (less recently as the pinball market makes me less interested in the hobby), the overall quality of discussion has taken a massive dive. I'd say a while ago, just going on the first page of topics I'd be genuinely interested in half to a third of them. These days it's far fewer, and many topics just get suffocated under the sheer weight of posts without any real value in them. It's a difficult balance with so many users, but when I log in and get faced with so much background noise, I can't be bothered to post anything even on subjects I'm interested in or where I might have something useful to add - doesn't seem worth it.
I'd get rid of the karma system - it's clear that the population is too large for it to exist now. Where it previously encouraged a few idiots to spam topics, there are more of them now. Check out the thread where a 'certain user' is having his own party for accumulating karma points. How did he do that? Shamelessly posting crap in every topic he could find - it deserves a ban rather than a celebration topic. It's disruptive and selfish. If you're not willing to moderate post quality, then you need to remove one of the incentives for contentless posts.
Quoted from o-din:Instant karma!
» YouTube video
"Is going to getch you, knock you right off your feet"
Kill the Karma system, this site would be much better. Currently heading the wrong way.
Yes you are experiencing growth on this site, but what kind of growth are you getting?
Quoted from system11:Where it previously encouraged a few idiots to spam topics, there are more of them now.
Yeah...including you! I'm not the first or only person to have a Party Thread...and for your information, many people are having a good time there. Sorry we all can't be as important as you. Some of us have a sense of humor and enjoy silliness. If you don't...sorry. Maybe you SHOULD stay away longer. 
Quoted from spfxted:Yeah...including you! I'm not the first or only person to have a Party Thread...and for your information, many people are having a good time there. Sorry we all can't be as important as you. Some of us have a sense of humor and enjoy silliness. If you don't...sorry. Maybe you SHOULD stay away longer.
I would have said that too but with just one word....
Quoted from pinstor12:Kill the Karma system, this site would be much better. Currently heading the wrong way.
I was 100% against this and have now changed my mind. We need some way to get more substantive posts on top all the time.
Quoted from spfxted:Thank you!...I was trying to be nice
...Which is why I like you.
I have posted in this thread already and my feelings about karma points have not changed. I don't focus on the points (although it is getting hard to ignore that I am darn close to being a PINBALL MASTER ). I do have more perspective to add though.
Keep the points system as it is, change it, take it away completely. I don't care. I have spent the bulk of my pinside time here since October 2012. Been a member since early 2012. I have found great help on the site. I have had great conversations with people I would have not otherwise met. I am becoming more and more involved in a very enjoyable part of pinball...The people part.
Their karma points make absolutely no difference to me. I have read their posts in topics that interested me and have developed a nice sense of belonging to a community. Does it really matter if one pinsider doesn't like what another pinsider is posting about? We all like different stuff and are here for different reasons. I enjoy reading good tech support posts and I really enjoy those odd times when I actually have something to contribute. I enjoy the "New Here" threads. It really brings out the openness of the community. This openness is exactly why I was drawn here.
Then there are all the "Price" threads. I enjoy those too. Lots to learn from these if you watch very closely and I'm not just talking about pin pricing.
The "Stern Sucks", "JJP Sucks", "This Sucks", and "That Sucks" threads interest me much less but I do browse through them and even post once in a while, but admittedly usually I will stray off topic with the others in those threads.
The threads that become fiercely fought between two opinions are the ones that drive me crazy. I usually find myself wondering "Why is this so important to these people?" I often wonder what would happen if these people were actually in the same room having these discussions.
Lots of good points, wouldn't you say? Do they give you a good idea of what I personally like and dislike on the site? Can you see how the karma point system affects me or matters to my experience here? My opinion...it doesn't! If anything it adds a little bit of reference as to how much time someone spends here. Nothing more and nothing less.
Robin, I love the site and now rarely a day goes by without a visit. I'm hooked and have no complaints!!
Quoted from rommy:We could ditch our titles and replace with "Member since 2/2012" in my case so no one would ever accidentaly think I knew what I was talking about because of Karma score
You do have a point here. Not specifically about you, but for newcomers who might make those assumptions about anyone with high karma points. If it is important to the site for the points to actually mean something, then first we must decide what the points should mean! Then we move forward from there.
Quoted from rommy:We could ditch our titles and replace with "Member since 2/2012" in my case so no one would ever accidentaly think I knew what I was talking about because of Karma score
I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Quoted from spfxted:Yeah...including you! I'm not the first or only person to have a Party Thread...and for your information, many people are having a good time there. Sorry we all can't be as important as you. Some of us have a sense of humor and enjoy silliness. If you don't...sorry. Maybe you SHOULD stay away longer.
Dude, I enjoy humor as much as the next guy, but come on... even you have to admit that your posting is becoming excessive. 347 posts in 7 days = 49 posts a day. Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in a Gallagher show without exits.
Quoted from starfighter:Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in a Gallagher show without exits.
That's WHY there is an Ignore Button. Easy breezy...
Quoted from starfighter:Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in a Gallagher show without exits.
And your wish will probably be answered. I'm going to post a lot less because I'm gonna stick with Threads that are fun and filled with folks just having a good time talking about Pinball. When it turns into the usual crapfest of name calling and bullshit...I'm out! 
Quoted from starfighter:Dude, I enjoy humor as much as the next guy, but come on... even you have to admit that your posting is becoming excessive. 347 posts in 7 days = 49 posts a day. Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in a Gallagher show without exits.
Some people have no clue or just don't care what others think. I've never thought about using the ignore feature before but just did. Looks like there's 49 posts a day I won't see.
I come here for information and to meet people of like mind. Sometimes it's a bit hard having to sift thru it all. And I get my fun and amusement working and playing with my games. But to each their own.
And damn dude give it a rest.
Quoted from KoolFingers:I come here for information and to meet people of like mind. Sometimes it's a bit hard having to sift thru it all.
I agree! 
Pinside is growing because so many people like it. This is a good thing, and an endorsement of the status quo. Couple of thoughts...
1. Censor the conversations and lose the participants. I have seen forums die because the moderators wanted to control the conversation...please don't let that happen here. IMO I will take the good with the bad.
2. Price comments on FS threads go both ways. I have seen people comment "great price", or "good seller". There are endorsements as well as attacks. I would let it go...the market decides.
3. If website finances are an issue, maybe create a rating system for people who donate certain amounts or on recurring intervals...Supporting Member...Sustaining Member...High Roller...whatever, to incentivize giving and supporting the site.
4. The more rules you make, the more moderators you need to have. Who wants that thankless job?
Quoted from tl54hill:Pinside is growing because so many people like it. This is a good thing, and an endorsement of the status quo. Couple of thoughts...
1. Censor the conversations and lose the participants. I have seen forums die because the moderators wanted to control the conversation...please don't let that happen here. IMO I will take the good with the bad.
2. Price comments on FS threads go both ways. I have seen people comment "great price", or "good seller". There are endorsements as well as attacks. I would let it go...the market decides.
3. If website finances are an issue, maybe create a rating system for people who donate certain amounts or on recurring intervals...Supporting Member...Sustaining Member...High Roller...whatever, to incentivize giving and supporting the site.
4. The more rules you make, the more moderators you need to have. Who wants that thankless job?
Well put!
I think all the "wish I was closer" and "great price" comments are all jokes, because they are in every Pinside FS thread. No matter how ridiculous the price is. It's the ongoing theme of this forum.
I agree that only earning karma from thumb votes is a huge improvement.
Sure friends could vote thumbs up for their buddies to skew the score, but it also might stop the ridiculously long threads full of worthless "me too" "glwts" "this" etc. A thumbs up says exactly the same thing, without clogging up the thread. People celebrate their high karma when it is really just a reflection of quantity, not quality.
If it keeps the posts less cluttered, I'm for it.
I also think their is more value seeing karma from thumbs up votes than karma from frivolous quantity.
Well... how about we continue to add Karma to the poster for all thumbs up... but on thumbs down, remove Karma from both the poster AND the thumbs-down giver? That may not sound fair, but I really do think Karma should be taken away for perceived bad posts, and having a penalty might help prevent abuse of the system and ensure that if you're serious about disliking a post, you do so knowing Karma is gonna take a chunk from you too!
Quoted from robin:I'm currently thinking about ways to bring down the noise level, one of my ideas is a "thread kickout", where moderators (or maybe the community?) can kick users from a thread for repeatedly making off-topic posts in them. This would stop bickering between two or three users bringing down (derailing) a whole thread. I'd be happy to hear other suggestion to bring down the noise level on the site.
I think it is fairly easy to spot the trouble makers who continually feed problems.
I see just a few who are very negative and quickly resort to personal attacks.
Just eliminate these people. Others will see the no-tolerance stance and respect the rules.
Quoted from ryan1234:Just eliminate these people. Others will see the no-tolerance stance and respect the rules.
They come back under different names and still cause the trouble, even blocking IPs really don't help.
Quoted from KoolFingers:They come back under different names and still cause the trouble, even blocking IPs really don't help.
Yes, you are right. I do think trouble makers will get tired of starting over and over.
People will come right back.... but they will get tossed when they cross the line every time.
It is very simple- follow Robins rules or your out. No exceptions-No warnings.
and some may see it run the way Wayne used to run his forums, and nobody was allowed to say anything negative about anything. Not going to get much constructive input that way when everything is one sided and only positive aspects of things are discussed.
Maybe you could give more points for a thumbs up (10?) and fewer for a post (3?).
It would also be nice if people would give thumbs up instead of saying "agreed" or "+1".
Quoted from CaptainNeo:and some may see it run the way Wayne used to run his forums, and nobody was allowed to say anything negative about anything. Not going to get much constructive input that way when everything is one sided and only positive aspects of things are discussed.
there is a difference between being constructive and being negative. With a little thought a person can give constructive feedback without being negative.
Example: That game sucks. (over and over in every thread makes it worse.)
OR
That game is not my style. I prefer games that return the ball to the flippers with less delay. This game does not play into my style.
They are both saying the same thing. Cannot be 100% because the first one does not explain anything. The first one is going to be considered negative and the second will be received as a valid point to discuss.
Thanks everyone for all your comments! Took me a while to react, sorry.
Yes, one of the basic ideas of Pinside is that it must be a positive site, with a good vibe. That does not mean you are not allowed to be negative here. I for one really HATE that obnoxious troll puppet in Rollercoaster Tycoon. There, I said it.
No seriously, there's a huge difference with being negative about something (disliking a game, disliking a theme etc) or just being negative overall (continuous trolling/attacks/derailing topics etc). I'm sure most of you know what I mean.
Okay, as for the Karma system. I'm leaning towards removal of the current Karma points system altogether. It was once meant as an incentive to participate on the site and post on the forum, but that's not required anymore, I guess.
I would like to replace it with something else though. Something like a reputation score would be a better way to see how much the community trusts a Pinsider. With such a system, you will no longer get points for a post automatically, you need to earn them by making good posts. Your peers can + or - a post or topic (thumbs up/down), which will add or subtract a rep point from your total. But there should be some limits to this. I like the idea of only being able to give out as points as you have received yourself. I also think there should be a daily limit of thumbs up/down you can give (avoid people thumb upping/downing every single post by limiting daily allowed use). I also like the idea of a special "problem solved/this post answered my question" marker which the topic starter can assign to a post in the thread, saying "hey, this post answered my question!" which will score extra points for the post author.
As for the FS threads, I'm not a fan of offering an option to disable comments on them. If you want to post a FS ad without getting comments on it, you will have to use the Pinside marketplace.
As for the moderation. *When* I get dozens of complaints about a moderator, I will definitely look into matters and could even relief someone from moderation duties. But in the end they are Pinsiders like everyone else, but received some extra rights from me and help out making sure the site rules are lived by. In my opinion, they are one of the reasons the Pinside remains a fun place.
Having said that, there are definitely differences between the way the mods handle things. It's almost... as if... they're human In a perfect world moderators would not be needed at all. I have always hoped the implementation of a good community (rep) system might enable the community to do most of the moderating duties by itself. The Tilt warning for flagging NSFW content is a great example and something the community is much better/quicker at then any mod could. I would very much like to take some difficult jobs out of the moderators hands and into the hands of the community, eliminating bias and differences in interpretation. The question is how to do this? Maybe I can tie it in with the rep system: if people have too many downvotes in a day they will be "banned" from posting for a certain time period? This will also make things more clear and less "random". Hmm, this needs more thought for sure.
Quoted from robin:Okay, as for the Karma system. I'm leaning towards removal of the current Karma points system altogether. It was once meant as an incentive to participate on the site and post on the forum, but that's not required anymore, I guess.
"You have chosen wisely"
Moderators poll:
Do you as a moderator think it is hard to do? Yes or no. I ask this because most administrators think they are asking to much from their moderators.
Quoted from robin:I would very much like to take some difficult jobs out of the moderators hands
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Quoted from robin:Okay, as for the Karma system. I'm leaning towards removal of the current Karma points system altogether. It was once meant as an incentive to participate on the site and post on the forum, but that's not required anymore, I guess.
I would like to replace it with something else though. Something like a reputation score would be a better way to see how much the community trusts a Pinsider
Post count? There's all ways a complaint by someone calling out a 'post whore' but it blows over quickly and forum life moves on.
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Quoted from Crash:Put a limit on thumbs down but no limit on thumbs up.
Sounds like a good idea. If it's easy to implement....
Quoted from robin:Okay, as for the Karma system. I'm leaning towards removal of the current Karma points system altogether. It was once meant as an incentive to participate on the site and post on the forum, but that's not required anymore, I guess.
I would like to replace it with something else though. Something like a reputation score would be a better way to see how much the community trusts a Pinsider. With such a system, you will no longer get points for a post automatically, you need to earn them by making good posts. Your peers can + or - a post or topic (thumbs up/down), which will add or subtract a rep point from your total. But there should be some limits to this. I like the idea of only being able to give out as points as you have received yourself. I also think there should be a daily limit of thumbs up/down you can give (avoid people thumb upping/downing every single post by limiting daily allowed use). I also like the idea of a special "problem solved/this post answered my question" marker which the topic starter can assign to a post in the thread, saying "hey, this post answered my question!" which will score extra points for the post author.
Sounds great to me.
LTG : )
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