I want to see a list of "F" titles... it will probably include some of my favorites.

That would be most of the top 20.

personally, i'd like to see the whole, "a/b/c/d" list thing go away... it's pointless... especially if (as by the op's definition) "c/d list" games are treated as if they aren't worth playing....

At this point the top 100 are all very fun and most would be enjoyed in any collection with room.
ABCD I too think is obsolete. Better to break down by how may thousands they cost. Otherwise it does not seem important.

I remember when 'A' referred to 4-5 pins (MM, MB, CC, AFM)...

Games like JD, JM, DH, DM weren't even rated...

Now it seems every mid to late 90s Williams is considered an 'A' game by most

Play what YOU like - who cares what a "poll" or ratings say.

Draw the line where you see fit.

Somewhere around here --------------->
Or is it here? ------------------>
Most definitely here. ------------------------------------->

+1. Trust me, my "A" list is WAYYYY different than your "A" list

I think it's a pointless classification. The only way it "might" be thought of would relate to pricing. I mean..show me a $8k "c" title...doesn't exist.

But beyond that, you can't classify these games. It's all purely personal. Let the top 100 stand, but don't try to break things down into classes. It's a moving target that you will never hit and never get any widespread consensus on where the lines are drawn.

King Pin? Probably off about 40k or so...

Okay I will play along ...

This is my opinion and is a general guideline of how I interpret A, B, C, D titles, there are definitely tables that are exceptions to the below because of personal preference.

A - 1-20
B- 21-110
C- 111-261
D- 262-300

I have much bigger population of what I consider B and C titles than you Joe.

Thanks
Mike

Agreed. Maybe we should adopt the Anime scale and make BBB, MM, AFM, and MB "S tier".

I like what I like,
Other peoples opinions will vary

I tend to think of A list games as the ones that are so expensive that I don't have to worry about owning them or not, because I can't afford it. {Please note my Spiderman was in a fire and significantly cheaper because I had to put it back together, or I wouldn't have it. Also, TAF is my mom's pin, whereas I bumped down a few levels and got a JP instead because of price.}

B list games are ones that I'd have to save up a long time for and/or give up 2+/- other games to even think about owning.

C list games are ones that I can actually afford to play/buy, and I personally like this category very much. Since I've never seen a non-EM pin all together for sale for less than $1500, I can't even comment on what a D game looks like. I wish there were more around me though.

I think the rating system can only be cut and dry with those games on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Most of the time, an agreement can be reached there as to High-As (AFM, MM) and bottom-of-the-barrel-Ds (Bad Girls, Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball). Its the middle-ground, low As through high Ds, where things get cloudy and arguments ensue. Like all ranking systems, we will never agree...however discussing our differences in opinion SHOULD be fun, as this thread aims for...

Rob
creditdotpinball.com

monster bash, mm, bbb

A list games are all the ones I own

quit hogging all the games.

this is a tough one, what is SWEET to one is SOUR to another!

I honestly do think all of my collection is A titles but I would think general consensus of (pinhead) people that come play would place the following letters on them if asked.

TAF = 7 A
WWind = 28 B
RFM = 32 B
FT = 37 A
Congo = 39 A
RS = 43 B
BK2K = 50 B
Centaur = 59 B
StarGate = 82 B
TX = 162 C
RollerGames = 174 C
Tee'd Off = 216 C
RoboWar = not rated B

Whirlwind, BK2K and Centaur are all "A" games from their respective era's. Pinside top 100 is really only relevant for DMD and newer titles.

I am a little pickier at front of scale preferring to keep a and b reserved for the sacred few. C and D are highly desireable. E's are average but impressive enough to brag about owning. Rest range from below average to flatout suck. Of course everybody disagrees on certain titles based on their expertise. I mentally have to shift some on the list to their rightful spots

A 1-10
B 11-25
C 26-50
D 50-100
E 101-200

Using that scale, classics like Fathom, Centaur, Space Shuttle, High Speed, and Pinbot are all D titles. Paragon is an E title. Using Pinside top 100 on non DMD games doesn't work. A restored Fathom is worth more than just about any B or C title and even some of the A listers.

A list - My favorite 5 games
B List - My next favorite 6-25 games
C List - My personal 26-100
D List - My 101st - 200ish
F 201 & up.

I guess you just skip the letter E in your alphabet.

In that case, RFM has to be an A also just because it defined its own era

also funny to me that aside from Wwind I keep buying games with worse ratings as time goes on

Yes, and SWE1 would be F list because it is the worst game of it's era... But wait, it's also the 2nd best

Cutting them off at particular ratings scores might be relevant if the ratings themselves weren't all but meaningless.

I am using the letter grades they used to use in school. E was always missing, don't know why

I see where you're coming from; it's a little odd at first that the same game can "take up" two spots in the top 25, for example. But I think it's important that these are rated separately as they can play quite differently and it can be an important data point. For example, by the ratings you can see that ST pro (26th vs 15th) and Metallica pro (22nd vs 16th) are pretty close to their premium counterparts. AC/DC pro, on the other hand, is way behind AC/DC premium (42nd vs 5th). This matches perfectly with everything I've read from people saying that it's not nearly as good of a pro and it's well worth it to get the premium for that game.

All the ratings are primarily based on dmd games. The longer I have been in this hobby the more I gravitate to the earlier solid state games. I believe Centaur, Fathom, Flash Gordon, EBD, Stargazer, Seawitch are all A titles. Atleast, they are to me. Buy and play what you like and dont worry about polls.

mike

I think the letter grade is mostly a gut-feel type thing useful to generalize, mostly based on supply/demand and thus price. It's useful when talking about multiple pins ("Did you see that guy's collection? He's got like 10 A-list pins!" or "I like fixer-uppers, so I mostly buy cheap C-list pins"). I think it's less useful to label individual pins and obviously opinions will vary wildly.

When I think of a B-list game, I actually think of something like Congo. Solid, well-liked game but tied to a long-forgotten movie from 20 years ago.

The age/era thing is hard, too. Some games probably hold up better than others. I could see Whirlwind being A-list when it came out, but perhaps not anymore compared to a lot of the games that came out in the 10 years after it.

It's harder to tell with new games, too, because they just haven't been around long enough for enough people to play them enough, plus there is a good supply of most (and way more HUO than in the '80s and '90s). Although I think you could safely say that most people would consider, say, AC/DC in a class higher than, say, Avatar (side note I've never once seen anyone mention Avatar on Pinside since I joined).

Should not be tied to price of game regardless. Rarity has simply given some games a higher rating than they warrant. People want what they can't get, those with it give it higher ratings than warranted cause they wanna drive the price more and the game isn't available to enough players to get a true representation of the game - particularly lastability.

Does MM remain an A with MMr or will it drop to a B? Another 2 to 3 thousand Cactus Canyons will certainly see its rating drop long term. Sooner if its not launched as CCc.

Same deal with "pin snobbery". As previously noted in this thread - artificial positive ratings are attached to B/W DMD machines over Stern, Data East, Sega. Is Junk Yard or Bride of Pinbot really better than an Avengers LE or even Rocky & Bullwinkle??? Debatable at the least in my books.

At the end of the day - its all subjective. Too many "followers" when it comes to what games are good and which are bad. Make your own list and use it. Who cares what someone else thinks is A, B, C, or D.

The artificial bubble based on rareness of a game has popped/is popping/will soon pop so expect those ratings to level out. The writing is on the wall. 3 manufacturers putting out good games is going to ensure prices drop on A and B pins and I think ratings will level out longer term on them too. Already has here. Games are taking a lot longer to sell than they used to. Bets are off if MMr is a flop or JJP flounders though.

When I started collecting, "A" titles were the ones that made the operators the most money. Anything else was a "B". In those days:

TAF = A
TOTAN = A
MB = A
WH20 = A

TZ = B
CFTBL = B
DW = B
HS2 = B

I never cared much for ratings. It's a personal taste thing. Just buy the games you love and play other people's games that you don't! Thanks for a positive thread!