(Topic ID: 57789)

AAB v Replay EM's Opinions

By Shapeshifter

6 years ago

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  • 193 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by boilerman
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders


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    #25 5 years ago

    With games made in both versions, some are better as AAB, and some are better as replay. Some are enjoyable both ways ("Sing Along"/"Melody" "Card Trix"/"Flip a Card"), but there are some hands down winners, mostly AAB over replay. As mentioned, "Dimension" and "Capt Card" are way better than their replay counterparts. Some have completely different rulesets, and so are almost different games ("Domino"/"Play Mates"). I grew up playing AABs, but have grown to like many of the replay games as well. I find many "replay guys" are not very fond of AABs, but that's OK because it leaves more of them for the rest of us. Not having a match feature is irrelevant. When you think about it, the match feature was nice when you had to pay to play, but it's one feature of a pinball machine that is based totally on luck and not skill. The cool thing about AABs is that the score limit is open-ended. Theoretically, you can say the same about a replay machine, but having a five ball limit generally prohibits really high scoring.

    #26 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gerry:

    AAB games have knockers too, and if your a good player they go off more than any replay game...

    Some games have nicer knockers than others. I've always loved the pronounced "thwack" that "Gold Strike" has!

    #36 5 years ago
    Quoted from newmantjn:

    Dimension can get too easy, same as Gold Strike. I don't think there is any way to make dimension harder. At one point we unsoldered two WOW targets to make the game a challenge.

    It's true that on "Dimension" you can rack up lots of balls, but you can lose them very quickly as well. "Gold Strike" can reach that "critical mass" point where you have so many balls racked up that making the WOW again is pretty easy. It would be harder to accumulate all those extra balls if the "A-B-C" sequence reset after every ball. They could have made only one lit spot for WOW on the upper drop target bank, and it would have been a little more tame. Seems like it would be an easy modification if you have one and find it too easy.
    As a kid though, playing those marathon games was awesome. It's basically the same idea as winning replays, except the games run consecutively without resetting the score. I guess that was the whole idea in the first place to get around the "replays=gambling" nonsense.

    #37 5 years ago
    Quoted from leckmeck:

    Compare the amount of activity on Pin-Up to King Pin.

    Yeah, but the backglass on "Pin-Up" is much more colorful and attractive than the one on "King Pin"; I think anyway.

    #38 5 years ago
    Quoted from cjmiller:

    The only ABB I like better than the replay version is Buckaroo/Flipper Cowboy,

    What about "Cow-Poke"?

    #49 5 years ago
    Quoted from leckmeck:

    I'll grant you King Pin's color scheme is heavy on blues and reds, whereas Pin-Up has a more pleasingly balanced palette. It's interesting to see the color variance between the two. The walls, ceilings, and background people are completely different, but I think both have great color choices. Gordon Morison was ace at combining colors.

    "King Pin" came out well before "Pin-Up" did. I don't know if that had any bearing on the differences in the artwork, but it may have been a factor. Love those Gordon Morison "shadow people"!

    #51 5 years ago
    Quoted from leckmeck:

    Compare the amount of activity on Pin-Up to King Pin. The latter is much more exciting. POW!

    You know, it's odd. In looking at the two backglass photos side by side, something just struck me (no pun intended).
    As you said, the artwork on "King Pin" has more action; more pins flying, a guy jumping up in the background, etc.
    The chick with the mini skirt kind of blends into the general scene; she doesn't really stand out. The name of the machine is "King Pin", more of a reference to bowling itself, rather than to the hot chick on the backglass.
    On "Pin-Up", the focus is decidedly on the girl herself. Thus the name, "Pin-Up", a convenient play on words being that it's a bowling themed game. It could be that GM purposely toned down the bowling action excitement in the scene of the "King Pin" glass to focus more attention on the hot babe for the new add-a-ball version which someone decided to name "Pin-Up".
    See, I knew those art appreciation classes would come in handy someday!
    BTW- I do agree with you on those 'previous high score' boxes. They ruin the look of the AAB backglasses. For anyone doing repro AAB backglasses, please omit them.

    #54 5 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    but... but... but... it wouldn't look original...

    It wouldn't be original anyway with a repro backglass. If you wanted to have the little box, you could make a sticker or something which is what they should have done in the first place. For the most part, these boxes detract from the look of the backglass, although some are less obtrusive than others.
    See you at Vic's tomorrow?

    #56 5 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    That really is a horrible idea. Why would you want to remove those when they are part of the AAB charm?
    I'm sure this would cost anybody doing repros some sales. Makes no sense.
    The box is very small, and I and many others actually use them. It's fun to have a high score or two in there.

    I doubt Ron or Shay, or anyone else making repros will actually omit the boxes unless it's a one-off glass and it's requested to be omitted by the customer.
    We never used the box to keep our high scores back in the day. A strip of masking tape with all the pertinent data would do the trick. We probably started doing this because there was a "Top Card" at the local arcade which was converted to add-a-ball, and we used to get gigantic scores on it. Being originally a replay game, it lacked the high score box, so we kept track of the high score on the masking tape.
    Someone made a "Flipper Fair" repro glass years ago that was missing the "tilt". I'm sure that was an oversight.

    #58 5 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Square Head AAB was too easy though.

    Really? "Square Head"? You usually have to lose a ball to get a ball on that game via the gobble holes. Those two skinny lanes on the left and right side are not really easy to make consistently when they're lit for extra ball.
    I've never really had an overly extended session on that game.

    #67 5 years ago
    Quoted from stashyboy:

    They are rare indeed. I had the pleasure of restoring a low plays Pin Up last year (remember the thread?) Perfect glass, and no kick out hole wear!

    I met the owner of it at Vic Camp's. That's gotta be one of the most cherry ones on the planet.

    #70 5 years ago
    Quoted from hoov:

    Dimension follow-up:
    I'm really trying to give aab's a chance as I'm a replay guy through and through. I replaced a couple drop target's, adjusted a few kick-outs, and worked on the flippers and pops. Best score so far is 67,000. Don't laugh. My question to you aab guru's is what's a good high score on a game like this? Do you guys roll these over pretty easy?
    I do agree this does have a good ruleset.

    Even on "Dimension" you can have the occasional stinker game. You can get a truly massive score as well. You should be able to roll it over if you get a fair amount of extra balls via the "WOW". It's not a really big scoring game; points can be hard to come by. Although it's tempting to whack away at the "cherries" when the "WOW" is lit, keeping the ball up near the top of the playfield can accelerate your score because the holes corresponding to the groups of completed drop targets are now each worth 3000 points, and the pop bumpers are worth 1000 points. If you have the ball counter pinned at 10, get the ball up to the top and try to keep it there as long as you can. The game has some tough angles, and the balls can drain just as quickly as you can accumulate them. It takes a little while to get used to the shots.

    #73 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Interesting subject. Being new to the EM experience I really don't have much of an opinion on this. I would say that if a pin is easy to keep adding a ball, that could get old fairly quick. As long as it's a challenge to add a ball, I would be cool with that.
    OP should add a poll.

    The manufacturers made add-a-ball machines to skirt the anti-gambling laws that some states and localities had, or even still have (I believe it is still illegal to this day to win a replay on a pinball machine in New York). Growing up with them here in NY state, I've come to like them very much. When you were a kid and had only a few dollars or maybe just a quarter or two to plunk into a machine, you tried to extend your play for as long as possible, and you also tried to get a stratospheric high game which would sometimes stand for months until someone else achieved a better score.
    In places where it was legal to win replays, the goal was to rack up as many free games as you could, and I understand the value of this to a kid who had a limited amount of change to play pinball with. That to me is the primary difference between replay and add-a-ball games, but it's basically the same thing; extending your playtime as a result of your skill. Replay games reset and start a new five ball game with somewhat limited scoring potential, and add-a-ball games extend the current game, allowing for an open-ended high score. They are both fun in their own right, but I believe the objective of pinball is to get as high a score as possible. You're somewhat limited with only five balls on a replay machine, but sometimes five balls is all you want to play.

    #78 5 years ago

    Bally "Hi-Deal" is the same way. It can be a true add-a-ball and a replay machine simultaneously. Great game too!

    #81 5 years ago
    Quoted from StevenP:

    One question (again, based on some lack of recent/general experience): can anyone comment on the 'switchable' games that an be set for replay or AAB? Do the rules vary much between the 2 settings? (general or specific game comments welcome!)

    There are only a few games that are convertible to true AAB play. The ones that say "convertible to add-a-ball" on the flyer (such as "Target Alpha" and other multi-player games), are not capable of true AAB play. They simply have a "same player shoots again" feature. There is no way to accumulate multiple extra balls that can be played off consecutively as on a true add-a-ball game.

    #104 5 years ago
    Quoted from hoov:

    I had a Gold Strike about 5 years ago that looked as if it just rolled out of the factory.

    Ach! Wish you still had it. I'd gladly take it off your hands!

    #106 5 years ago

    When did you sell it?

    #108 5 years ago

    Be still my heart!!!

    2 years later
    #129 2 years ago

    "Ice Show" has five pop bumpers versus four on "Ice Revue". Both are great games. Like both "Flip a Card" and "Card Trix". Agree about "Centigrade 37*", "Volley", and "Atlantis". Would probably flip any of those, but might keep "Atlantis" around a little while.
    Yup, don't like "High Hand". "Dimension" smokes "2001". "Paradise" and "Pleasure Isle" are both great games. "Pin-Up" has way better colors on the backglass than "King Pin". Playfield is better too IMHO. Gotta consider the shorter runs on aabs if you're a collector.
    "Kings & Queens" is so addictive! You gotta play just one more game. Of course, no add-a-ball version.
    I think on both "Cow-Poke" and "Buckaroo" you can get four knocks if you get the number four last. Orgasmic!

    #132 2 years ago

    "Capt. Card" is the ultimate feast or famine game. Most of the time it's a famine. Every now and then you can get a really good game going, and it's really rewarding. Usually that game punishes me royally.

    #133 2 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    I don't get the Dimension love. My first (and thus far only) game I earned 10+ balls, rolled the score twice, and walked away with 8 left!

    On "Dimension", you can rack up a lot of extra balls, but you can lose them very quickly too. The best thing about it is that the drop targets reset after you drop each side. You try to keep a balance between the left and the right sides, so that you always just need a target or two to get a pair of WOW targets lit. It's a fast paced game.
    It's the game that first got me fascinated with pinball while watching a friend pummel the lit targets and hearing that "pop, pop, pop"!

    #142 2 years ago
    Quoted from boilerman:

    to add another pair that i like is sing along and melody.
    these both are very good games. melody is not an easy one to get a extra ball.

    Really? I usually get a gaggle of extra balls every time I play "Melody". Consistently more so than just about any other add-a-ball game that I play.

    #144 2 years ago

    Three or four extra balls is pretty good per game. My brother's "Melody" seems pretty generous. I usually have a decent game of 5,000+ points and several free balls if I really bear down and concentrate. Often on "Dimension" and "Gold Strike" which have a reputation for awarding lots of extra balls, I can play a game and not win a single ball. With those two though, once you reach a "critical mass" point, you can rack up a lot of extra balls, but on "Dimension", you can lose them just as quickly. "Capt. Card" is the same, but to an extreme. Most games are humbling, but once you really get that game going, you can rack up a lot of balls and get a big score. It's much less frequent on that one though as opposed to "GS" and "Dimension".

    #148 2 years ago
    Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

    Not true. I play to achieve a high score. On every pinball game I play, whether at home or on route, this is my main objective.

    Exactly! Pinball is about attaining a high score which will be a challenge for the next player to beat. Replay games emphasize getting something for free; a replay. Although it's rewarding, the score you get seems secondary compared to how many credits you can rack up.
    I played a game of "Cross Town" recently, and I had banged out two credits by hitting the "special" target twice before I had scoring 100 points.In that respect, replay games are more like bingo machines, which are true gambling devices. Maybe that's why winning replays was considered gambling in certain states, thus giving rise to the concept of add-a-ball games. On multi-player pins, score became more of an objective because you were playing head to head against another player. And, maybe that's why many of the earlier multi-player pins did not have a playfield "special", but would still award replays for score and match (which is purely luck).

    #152 2 years ago

    Well, yeah. That's what it comes down to. The guys who grew up playing games in the 47 or so states that had replay games usually prefer the replay games. Vice versa for the add-a-ball states. I like both actually, but still like getting a high score even on replay games rather than ratcheting up the credit reel. In fact, it's a pain when the credit reel gets to it's limit or close to it. There's no real easy way to knock off credits if you can't easily access the back of the game, and once it's maxxed out, you don't even get a knock!

    #166 2 years ago
    Quoted from frb:

    If you are old enough to have been around in the seventies you have to remember the pinball anthem by the Who. If I remember correctly that deaf, dumb and blind kid always gets a replay. I have never heard of him getting extra balls. Replay for the win!

    Replay games were far more widespread than add-a-balls, and winning a replay on a replay machine is the objective; no argument there.
    For home use though, winning replays is somewhat pointless (no pun intended). As I stated in an earlier posting, it all depends on what you grew up playing. There were far fewer add-a-ball localities, but those who played those games back in the day prefer them to replay games.
    I played AABs in NY, and didn't play replay games until a little later while visiting in NJ. It seemed odd that you were limited to five balls, and five balls only. Extended play (add-a-ball) or winning credits (replay) are both rewards for exceptional play. The only difference is that add-a-balls continue the same game, and replay games start over from zero. Both award extra balls in a manner of speaking, but replay games make you start your score from zero again. The charm of add-a-ball play is achieving a very high score which can be challenging for subsequent players to exceed. To me, that was the thrill of pinball back in the day. Someone would post a score that was seeming unreachable, but you would eventually have that incredibly awesome game and before you knew it, you were approaching that unreachable score and then the thrill of beating it was incredibly rewarding. This pitted you more against other players, rather than beating the machine (really, the operator) for a free game.

    #167 2 years ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    Machines like Wizard! with the extra ball feature function as add a ball and replay. Best of both combined!

    Bally's "Hi-Deal" is a great machine that is truly replay and add-a-ball simultaneously. It is the best of both worlds. You're playing an add-a-ball game, but the machine has a credit reel and you can win replays as well! How awesome is that!

    #171 2 years ago

    "Pop A Card" over "Drop A Card". "Gold Strike" over "El Dorado". "Free Fall" over "Sky Jump". Maybe a few others.
    I do like replay games as well. "North Star" "King of Diamonds", and "Kings & Queens", are three of the best games ever.

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