(Topic ID: 57789)

AAB v Replay EM's Opinions

By Shapeshifter

6 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 193 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by boilerman
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders


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    #75 5 years ago

    As a 90's kid who has zero nostalgia factor, my opinion is that AAB is the only logical choice for a home environment due to credits being worthless. All other arguments are emotionally biased.

    All other arguments are NOT emotionally biased. Other than the flipper series, Majorettes, Big Top and maybe a few others, Gtb. designed all playfields as replay games. Since the average production run of most AAB is 500-700 units, while replay versions averaged 5X that amount, it's easy to see why AAB was not the primary focus, and with the objective's reward being so different, along with the number of balls to get there, very few games cross over to AAB without areas of inferiority.
    It works the other way as well. Flipper Fair and Flipper Cowboy are great originally designed AAB games. The attempted replay counterparts appearing later, (Buckaroo, Cross Town), seem to have design flaws, the details having been beaten to death in several other threads.
    In some cases, both versions work well, and I happen to like both. It is rather apparent though, replay versions were what brought the revenue in. Dedicating a design team for the AAB market was simply cost prohibitive.

    #84 5 years ago
    Quoted from StevenP:

    I don't have a lot of recent experience comparing AAB to replay version of the same game. But in general, I really like the AAB for home use. Why? As others have noted, replays are meaningless (other than attaining a pre-set score) whereas the added ball helps you toward an all-time best score (or beating an opponent).

    If that's the case, why are the value of AAB Games still lagging slightly behind their replay counterparts?? It would seem to me since you say, "Others have noted, replays are meaningless," and the logic that high scores make for the perfect forum of competition, that AAB Game values would sky-rocket. That has NOT happened! Not even with the fact that many people getting into the hobby today haven't even seen EM's in commercial use.
    Please explain this to me WITHOUT mentioning sentiment, as this is NOT the reason. EM's haven't been around in numbers for quite a while, and the guys getting into the hobby now, as noted, have never seen them in a commercial setting. The guys longing to re-live their past pinball memories already have those games and are in their 50's and 60's by now. Why haven't the younger hobbyists taken to the AAB Game?
    I'll try to answer my own question........... The superior playing original replay design is a perfect fit for a 5-ball game. 5 balls, not 10, not 15, 25. The depth and challenge are perfect for 5 balls. Adding multiple balls to a normal, relatively simple EM ruleset would make play rather boring. Altering the playfield of a 5-ball game, "On the cheap," to comply with certain laws had to result in some failures, large and small along the way. Naturally, there are exceptions, but they are few and far.........
    Many have probably read my whining over the above captioned statement in the senior forum. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, just hate to see this replay game "Mindset." There's a reason AAB Game values haven't increased, and those that chose the AAB Versions because, "Replays are meaningless in the home environment," are probably missing out on some of Gottlieb's best designed games!

    #100 5 years ago

    And if anything, AAB games tend to be more rare (smaller market required them), and are often more expensive because of rarity.

    I happen to have both styles in my collection as well, and as noted, "Perspective is everything." I even agree with the simple logic that the idea of winning a replay has no value in the home setting, but despite an identical playfield, each plays quite a bit differently and both should be sampled. This was the point I was trying to make. When I see someone state, "The replay is worthless in the home environment," it sounds to me as though they're not going to give replay games a chance.
    To set the record straight, in checking with Boston Pinball, (for some reason, the modern day gospel), the value of replay games is in fact, still higher than most AAB counterparts despite the rarity. I always wondered why, since it would seem to fit the home environment better, and newbs, (having no nostalgic attachment), likely never played either.

    #102 5 years ago

    It makes sense if that's the case. Nostalgic memories would be a factor. Going to the shows, or walking into a gameroom store makes it easy to feel like the nostalgic factor is geared towards those a little younger, having grown up with newer stuff.

    #109 5 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    i'll grant you that they have no nostalgia for em's, theirs is more of a "discovery of em's" ("wow, i didn't think this would be any fun compared to my super-duper, blinged to hell, covered with toys doohickey")...

    Exactly! AND, after the simple sounding logic that I constantly run into, ("The replay is meaningless in a home environment"), along with the newb's lack of experience with either, makes one think the prices by now for AAB's would've skyrocketed, and they haven't.

    Quoted from ccotenj:

    realistically, take anyone who has never played any form of pinball before, and plunk them in front of an em pinball... i doubt a majority of them will walk away from the machine wanting one... they may think it is cool, and they may like it, but it is unlikely to turn them into a collector...

    Makes sense, but the hobby is no longer in it's infancy. I'll venture to think there's EM collectors, (who never played them commercially), because of prices alone! In fact, I've met a few. The EM supply unearthed by now surely has kept up with the hobby's growth, (demand), particularly replay games, but the price of AAB's, despite the rarity, still hasn't changed.

    My argument is simply with this statement: "The replay is meaningless in a home environment." It is NOT nostalgia based. It is based on assumption, not experience, and if one would try to justify it, what better proof is there than the supply/demand factor? The fact is, if replays are meaningless, the demand for AAB's would be higher, especially since they're rare, but the prices per unit, still generally lag behind their replay counterparts. Why hasn't the demand grown?

    IMO, It's because rather than having a AAB design team, Gtb. (for obvious reasons), chose the economy route, convert the replay design.

    1 month later
    #120 5 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    I think as we go into the future AAB games will become more popular with home collectors as the younger player who doesn't remember getting replays as they never played them in arcades, will gravitate to a game that can be continued with extra balls and going for a huge score.

    Maybe..............It certainly hasn't happened yet!

    2 years later
    #170 2 years ago
    Quoted from hoov:

    I don't understand this statement: "replays are no fun in a home environment" - they are to me. It's a good thing everyone doesn't think that way or we would all be jumping on any aab that popped up on CL. Prices would be through the roof!

    Well said, Hoov! This has been my reasoning for a long time, yet the AAB version value still lags somewhat behind that of it's replay counterpart. NicoVolta explains the actual dysfunction in the following post that in converting a replay game to AAB is tough to do without a few "Hiccups" in the skill objective.

    I'll go 4 more just for fun: Flipper Cowboy over Buckaroo, Flipper Fair over Cross Town, Dimension over 2001, Capt. Card over High Hand, otherwise, I'll take the replay version.

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