non rechargeable I use energizer. for pinball? They should last years.

better yet, just get rid of the stupid batteries all together...

www.lockwhenlit.com

pick up the anypin NVRAM. Reality is that even 1 failed battery and a crapped board and you would have been better off buying and putting the NVRAM in all of your games.

Aside from that batteries cost money and are a waste. For the long term there is really no reason to not go to NVRAM.

I've got remote mounted lithium batteries in most of my games and a few with NVRAMs. I think I bought a bunch of Energizer lithium batteries a decent price off the internet a while back.

+1 Energizer Lithiums. Go in all my games until I can fit a remote holder and then stay in that holder anyhow.

Don't use AA batteries of any kind. This will prevent you or a future owner from popping in alkaline batteries when lithium batteries aren't on-hand.

I like the watch-battery method. Most cost-effective at like $2 per game, will last like 10 years probably. For Williams & DE, you don't even need to do anything special either, just get the - and + terminals right. On some other games like Bally, you need a blocking Diode to keep it from trying to charge the battery.

NVRAM is sweet, but expensive if you need to do a lot of pins.

Have I overlooked a thread for this?

5x holders $3.21 - ebay.com link: 5 x New Button Coin Cell Battery Socket Holder Case CR2032 Black
5x CR2032's $2.59 - ebay.com link: FRESHLY NEW 5x SONY CR2032 Lithium Battery 3V Exp 2024 Pack 5 pcs Coin Cell

You can do 5 games for under $6, but these are ghetto CR2032s and will probably die in like 3-4 years. Wire it the same way you would an external battery holder. On DE games, you don't even need to run leads off the holder or drill holes, they fit between the + & - leads where the original battery holder goes.

to me it is nice to not have to EVER worry about a battery EVER again. That piece of mind is worth it alone. Aside from that it is a value added upgrade so any game with it means you will the cost right back out.

Rather do that than continue to pitch batteries in the landfill, possibly lose HSTD, or worse have a board ruined.

I think Barakandl and Forceflow posted a thread on this

I agree with all your points. If you are on a budget though and/or have a lot of games on route, that is an expensive peace of mind. CR2032 is the way to go in that case. If I had the $, I'd go NVRAM route for the reasons you listed.

completely understand! I do this for the vast majority of route games also. I have actually found batteries do not last as long on route compared to in the home.

That is interesting to hear.... Don't know what would cause that. Theoretically, you should see the opposite.

I would think supercaps would be ideal for route games, since they are never turned off for long periods.

Thank you for that info.

You'll need a 24mm holder for the CR2430. I've been trying to find a holder either for the 2032 or 2430 so I don't have to drill holes or add jumpers to system 3 MPUs.

The 2450 is another larger capacity coin cell that is more common, and you should be able to find a holder for it easily. And you really don't need to mount it remote... just put it on the PCB. Video game guys have been using these lithium coin cells on PCBs for at least a couple decades now. Never heard of a single problem.

The 2325 is another common size.

Energizer is going to be the popular one because I believe they had a patent that prevented others from making AA lithiums. Though it may have expired and now Duracell and Rayovak can/do offer lithium AA's

I think a four pack of AA is like 10$. Those will easily last 7 years plus. And no chance of damage. But thanks to barakandl (Andrew) you can now put in the nvram and be done with it forever for only a few $more.

I have NVRAM for sale on my website. I have FM1608, which replaces 6264 RAM, starting at only $8. How many double AAs add up to that... cant be that many.... plus it safe from leaking.

CR2032 on a coin holder is also a good way to do it. Check my marketplace add i put up yesterday and you can see how i mount a coin holder.

http://www.nvram.weebly.com

Thanks!
Andrew

I just added the CR2032 lithium's to my Williams System 6 and 7 machines this weekend. I had remote battery holders on both of these previously. I think by soldering the lithium battery holders to the boards makes for a much cleaner looking install plus the added bonus of not having to worry about leaking batteries.

Build your own batterys for a few cents

Sega, Stern and DE has these RAM chips in a socket. Plug and play and no worries about batteries. To me it is a no brainer for NVRAMs in these games.

WPC games have the RAM hard soldered. If pulling and socketing the original ram is beyond what you want to do. Use the remote holders with the wood posts and get the remote pack as far as possible from PCBs. Some of the WPC games even have a connector you can extend to keep it looking neat and clean.

You do not want to use a coin in WPC games. The real time clock will drain the battery in a few months. Coin works great in Williams system 3-11 though.

CR2032's are great in some games. Classic Bally / Williams.. you're *okay* because the 5101 SRAM used in those games has this ultra-low standby current that even the low power 6264 / 6116, etc SRAMs can't match. I'm wondering though how CR2032's hold up in Data East / System 11 games to power 6264 or 6116's.. more than a few years?

With Gottlieb System 3's (ie. Tee'd Off, etc).. there's a reason those coin cell batteries last a lot longer (even still holding settings today). They have a DALLAS DS1210 chip that essentially creates an nvram solution -- or what the DALLAS memory backed RAM is essentially.

Isn't the standby current for a 5101 like 10uA? Are there better ones than that? For 6116, there are a lot of choices.... The Sharp LH5116 has a standby current of only 1uA.

The easiest thing to do is buy AA Lithiums in bulk, if you look around enough you can get them for $1.50 per battery.

Clip the leads, heat the joint and pull out the pins. Finish up with solder wick or a solder sucker. Just as safe as using a Hakko (although not as fast and fun).

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1/page/3#post-2753805

Most of the data sheets i have looked at for 6264 and 6116 are 1uA to 5uA

I think the math is this for worst case 5uA.....

225mAh / 0.005mA * 0.7 = 31,500 hours / 24 = 1300 days or about 3.5 years.

Grow a pair. Lol.

No really if you want to do it super easy take a pair of diagnols and snip all legs at the ic. Yes IC destroyed but does not matter as your putting in a socket and then the nvram. Soldering iron only needed. Heat up each pin and pull out with tweezers. Use solder wick to pull solder out of holes. Solder in the socket and plug in nvram. If your decent at soldering work it is easy as pie. Or piece of cake??

I just started switching over to the DMD+ route and will never look back. It's just so cheap and simple and to never have to worry about batteries again is pretty sweet.

I've been using CR 2032 batteries in my WPC, data East games, system 3-11, Gottlieb sys1/80/3, Bally -17/-35 games now for several years. And WPC games I've yet to have one die and it's been at least three years. Note I am using the really inexpensive style CR 2032's available on eBay. You can get 100 for like $15. Likewise can get 100 of those cr2032 battery holders for them for about 10 buck. You do this and you can change the batteries in any of your games for well under a dollar per game. Even if the batteries only last two or three years who cares? The NV RAM solution is really not practical for my situation as I have literally hundreds of games that need batteries. The only caveat I have found is that 5101 Rams made by AMI will not work with watch style batteries, those are too power-hungry. When I get a game with an an AMI memory in it I always throw it away and replace it with a different brand.

Is there in the meantime any solution to keep the game clock working (other than adding batteries again ) when using a NVRAM?

Yes, I'm being anal about it, but it just looks wrong when all the DMDs in the gameroom are showing just any time & date. It's a mess and for a few games some features just won't work right any more (Midnight Madness, TZ Playfield Clock).

Also don't really get the coin cell love - you need to change the battery holder and still have to change the battery every 2-3 years. Just use AA Lithiums and you're good for approx. 10 years. Energizer Ultimate Lithium are by far the best, by the way.

I put AA Energizer ultimate lithium batteries in all my machines.

I don't know if any of you guys still use a Laptop or Desktop; but when it suddenly does not boot at all - look inside for the leaking CR2032.

It could be the heat from inside the computer, or just more Chinese made junk, but I've been "fixing" a lot of computers lately by replacing the CR2032 and the corroded holder.

craptop.jpg

TZ is my only pin that I am not putting a DMD+ in. Not too concerned about the time/date being accurate, but like you said it's important for TZ and MM. I'm using a remote battery holder for TZ.

Edit: was attempting to quote someoneelse

We are working actually on this problem.

Yup, I've seen this too occasionally.

A coin cell is better than AA's on an MPU, but any battery still has the potential to leak.

Coin cells do not like to get wet from what I can tell. I have taken apart plenty of NES cartridges and it seems the only ones that leak have obviously been in a wet basement or even submerged. All of my NES games from when I was little still have good CR2032's in them and none have leaked, I cracked them all open that had batteries.

I've seen older coin cells that did not leak, but I bet they were true "Made in Japan" ones, and not the terrible bootleg "Maxell" ones made in China today.

The Chinese counterfeits are crap... who knows what they use in them. Watch out for the "Sony" branded ones also. I bought one of those cheap bulk lots from eBay once. After a couple years on the shelf, they still measured 3V, but when you put a load on them they would just plummet because they had no power left. So the chemistry in those things is highly suspect. A properly made lithium (Li-MnO2) cell should have a shelf life of 10+ years.

Lithium batteries of any kind don't like heat. they do nasty things when heat is around. i suspect this may be some of the issues people are seeing. i've been use cheap cr2032's off ebay (100 for $15) and haven't had any problems with them. i used to look for "name brand" ones but it's too hard to tell if they are "real" so i just get the cheap ones now, and know damn well they are the cheap ones!

I've been steadily getting rid of all the batteries in my games.

If a CPU board has to come out for service, it goes back with NVRAM installed. (If the Metcal is hot, that old RAM is coming out.)

For $8 it's a no brainer.

Duracell is the only way that I will go, because if it leaks, they claim they will fix the item:

Duracell guarantees its batteries against defects in materials and workmanship. Should any device be damaged due to a battery defect, we will repair or replace it at our option. Leaking battery and damaged device must be provided as proof of claim. Duracell may deny claims of damage caused by misuse or modification of the batteries or device.

http://www.duracell.com/en-us/guarantee

I have had countless leaky duracell batteries.... wonder what is the effort to get Duracell to repair?

Every battery company seems to have the same warranty.

I'd love to see what they would do with a pinball CPU, lol.

Energizer will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by leakage from Energizer® AA/AAA Alkaline batteries If exact replacement is not available, devices may be replaced with a product of comparable market value at the time of claim. Leaking battery and damaged device must be provided to Energizer as proof of claim. Energizer reserves the right to deny claims of damage caused by misuse or modification of the batteries or device. If you have a leaking battery, contact 1-800-383-7323 for return instructions.

I had a 6 cell Maglite that the Duracells became so fat, that I could not even get them out.

I send it back, and they said that the Duracells were counterfeit - they still replaced the Maglite.

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