Whirlwind
Williams, 1990Quoted from HydrogenHuman:They must have listened to my facebook message yesterday, lol.
Man, I'm really tempted to buy it, but I'm so worried about that stupid dimple alignment problem. That will be such a headache.
It's better to know about it ahead of time, then it's not too hard to prepare with some contact paper.
Quoted from yaksplat:It's better to know about it ahead of time, then it's not too hard to prepare with some contact paper.
Ooh that's a great idea! You mean that I'd place contact paper over the original playfield, and mark all the spots and then place it over the new one so it's dead on? That's certainly a lot less annoying than comparing and measuring every dimple back and forth between playfields.
Quoted from yaksplat:Here's contact paper on the new playfield, you can see how far the mirco ones were off.
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Tracing paper comes in handy as well.
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Wow that's crazy. Contact/Tracing paper really comes in handy though! Did you just use one huge sheet? Also, what did you use for reference to make sure you lined up the contact paper properly between the two playfields?
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Wow that's crazy. Contact/Tracing paper really comes in handy though! Did you just use one huge sheet? Also, what did you use for reference to make sure you lined up the contact paper properly between the two playfields?
I did it in a couple sheets to make it easier to handle. I used the cutouts in the playfield. Trough, cellars, spinners, and any known holes.
Quoted from yaksplat:I did it in a couple sheets to make it easier to handle. I used the cutouts in the playfield. Trough, cellars, spinners, and any known holes.
So the cutouts are generally accurate compared to the dimples from CPR? And by cutouts you mean like where the inserts and spinners are, for example?
I documented some of the issues on my WW CPR that was a second run. Hopefully they have the dimples showing on this new run better. Hopefully this is helpful: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/another-whirlwind-playfield-swap-refresh-cpr-gold-second-run
Quoted from topkat:I just saw them listed on CPR. Does anyone know if the prior problems were fixed?
I think I'll be one of the first people to find out! They said on this page they are using their new "digital" process, so whether that is any different than before, I don't know. When I spoke to the facebook account representative, they said they had never received any complaints about dimpling problems before...lol.
Quoted from dmacy:I documented some of the issues on my WW CPR that was a second run. Hopefully they have the dimples showing on this new run better. Hopefully this is helpful: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/another-whirlwind-playfield-swap-refresh-cpr-gold-second-run
Oh yes! I actually was looking at this thread several days ago and thought it was great! Thanks for posting the link to it.
It’s a great learning experience! You have a fun project ahead of you and will be a help to others with your findings on the new run’s hopefully improved changes.
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:Yes, $900 is not a toss in the bucket, and you do have to take your time when installing all the mechanics but sometimes it is the only option.
I think in the case of this playfield I have a playfield swap is pretty necessary. Even if I did get the insert decals and such fixed, (which I'll still do while waiting for the new playfield) the mylar is starting to bubble pretty bad, and there is planking and other wear.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Yeeeep, that's the current worry I have with CPR and especially Mirco. I don't know if it's really avoidable or not, but if I had to choose between the two I'd go with CPR since Mirco seems to consistently have that hole and dimple problem from what I've seen.
I did WW playfield swap (CPR) and I viewed the dimples as general guides... to which some were more accurate than others. To that end, I lined up everything manually and then used a sharp pick to center pump my own new dimple and then drill a 1/16 hole. So 95% of the stuff to be mounted is easy to manually line up, then poke and drill your mounting holes. It is doing this 848 times is is what slows you down. 
Here is my WW project in case you need any reference photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Tar7MyWSHoPXIImR2
If you are buying a new topper, I'll throw you some money for your old one! I am currently topper-less!
Okay, so I checked all the fuses on my Whirlwind, and lo and behold, at least one wasn't showing continuity.
F2 and F3 fuses on the Power Driver Board. F2 I believe was the one that definitely was not showing any continuity.
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The F6 fuse on the Aux Power Driver Board shattered at one of the ends. I personally don't know if I was the cause, or if it was already like that and was so brittle it broke. Either way, that also has to be replaced.
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All other fuses were good, though the fuse holders likely need a good cleaning.
Another thing I found was the battery holder was very...suspect. While there doesn't appear to be any corrosion damage on the board, the battery holder wobbles around and both the negative and positive contacts really look like crap.
Quoted from AirWolfNH:When I saw it on Facebook it was listed at $1000. Too bad you didn’t get it for $500.
Anyone who wants a WW is happy to join the club for $1K or less.
Okay, I got a very thorough e-mail response from Kevin and CPR, and I wanted to share it:
I don't recall much about the 2011 cut, except that we sold 250+ of them back then, and I'd say most of them are in machines doing fine today.
As for the current re-release, I can tell you that these re-releases (not just Whirlwind) are all complete revisits to the original sample playfields, with all new CAD and all new CNC cutfiles. We have to, as our CNC machine was a new model as of 5 years ago. We sold the original one(s) we had. So new cutfile programmings were needed anyway. So Mike takes the time to re-verify the positions of everything, as part of the process.
The rear dimples are also a re-do. We no longer "stamp" the backsides using a imprint-template (nail bed). We laser-etch the backsides with all the dot locations now. Again, that pattern was mastered off an actual pulled-from-factory-game original Whirlwind playfield, just a couple months ago. So the dimple backside is 2020 new as well.
Doesn't mean that human placement and judgment calls won't come into play during a swap, here and there (that's standard fare on any playfield), but I would be confident in saying the 2020 re-release would be more accurate to the samples than in 2011.
Hope this helps.
- Kevin
So the takeaway from this message is that the Whirlwind playfields are much different than the 2011 run. Now we just have to hope it's better!
My interactions with Kevin have been top notch. He puts out a great product. He takes his time to respond and does his best to make things right. I purchased a High Speed set from him (Back Glass, plastics and Playfield).
Dimples to me are "ONLY" guidelines. I would NEVER just start drilling holes off dimples. Some line up just fine but each game has its own personality. You must use your best judgement to line up every switch, solenoid bracket, light stand, etc.
In fact sometimes slight modifications to original placement is a good thing.
Just my .02 worth.
So I may have to replace the power supply board as my dad inspected the board a little bit this morning and noticed some of the resistors were fried/burned.
We haven't taken it out to do a thorough inspection of the underside, but that was the board that had the bad fuse. Part Number D-12246
Currently soaking the rusty legs in evaporust while they are in a 4 inch PVC pipe and locked tight.
Will post pictures of the results within 24 hours!
Thanks for documenting this. I'd be more concerned about the cabinet than the playfield. Buying a new playfield to go with this cabinet seems a little odd to me. But I wish you the best of luck and look forward to seeing your progress!
Quoted from LOTR_breath:Thanks for documenting this. I'd be more concerned about the cabinet than the playfield. Buying a new playfield to go with this cabinet seems a little odd to me. But I wish you the best of luck and look forward to seeing your progress!
I'll be working on the cabinet well before putting in the playfield!
Right now I'm noticing that it's difficult to lift the playfield up as it seems to get stuck and scrape the inside right side of the cabinet.
My guess is the cabinet wood may be slightly warped causing that problem.
Oooof. That game is in absolute shambles. I hope the game is a keeper for you because I don't think you could get your current investment back out of it. A new play field with a garbage cabinet so you'll want to buy a new cabinet. You're likely going to have to spend $300 in parts to refresh everything and does the display work? You're going to end up spending ~$5k getting this nice. I highly suggest you look at what you can buy a pristine one for and decide whether it's worth your time or not to do this one.
If you're the type that likes a project then that's cool! But in order for you to fully recover the investment cost (minus your labor) you're literally forced to do a complete restore. If it makes you feel any better I bought a Funhouse for $1800, spent $4800 total on a new playfield (paid someone to do the pf swap) and the cabinet is a 7 out of 10. No way I'd ever be able to recoup the total investment. I love the game and it was worth it to me.
Quoted from CLEllison:Oooof. That game is in absolute shambles. I hope the game is a keeper for you because I don't think you could get your current investment back out of it. A new play field with a garbage cabinet so you'll want to buy a new cabinet. You're likely going to have to spend $300 in parts to refresh everything and does the display work? You're going to end up spending ~$5k getting this nice. I highly suggest you look at what you can buy a pristine one for and decide whether it's worth your time or not to do this one.
If you're the type that likes a project then that's cool! But in order for you to fully recover the investment cost (minus your labor) you're literally forced to do a complete restore. If it makes you feel any better I bought a Funhouse for $1800, spent $4800 total on a new playfield (paid someone to do the pf swap) and the cabinet is a 7 out of 10. No way I'd ever be able to recoup the total investment. I love the game and it was worth it to me.
Really? You think the total cost will end up being that much? I don't think so, personally. If I did think that, I never would have bought it lol.
The playfield I knew would be a big expense, if not the biggest expense out of the restoration. The next most expensive thing would be the radcals/decals plus wood and paint for the cabinet. If most of the boards work well (still have to see), then I would think that wouldn't cost much to get things up and running.
I'll be honest, I actually think I could restore this machine for $3000-3500, that's including the initial purchase cost for $1000 (So $2000-$2500 total in parts and such). I personally don't see a $5000 total cost. Maybe if I'm counting tools, equipment, etc. sure, but tools can be re-used on many other machines and I already have a lot of the tools.
Wow I'm really glad I found this thread, as I'm restoring a WW myself right now. Not as bad condition as yours though, I don't envy you with that challenge ahead!
Anyway I had seen that CPR were no longer stocking WW, so Mirco was my only choice. But his version has a missing insert decal so wasn't too keen on spending all that money on something with that kind of error.
So, I'm very pleased to hear that CPR are doing WW again.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Really? You think the total cost will end up being that much? I don't think so, personally. If I did think that, I never would have bought it lol.
The playfield I knew would be a big expense, if not the biggest expense out of the restoration. The next most expensive thing would be the radcals/decals plus wood and paint for the cabinet. If most of the boards work well (still have to see), then I would think that wouldn't cost much to get things up and running.
I'll be honest, I actually think I could restore this machine for $3000-3500, that's including the initial purchase cost for $1000 (So $2000-$2500 total in parts and such). I personally don't see a $5000 total cost. Maybe if I'm counting tools, equipment, etc. sure, but tools can be re-used on many other machines and I already have a lot of the tools.
I agree, this looks like it'll be 2500-3500 when complete, plus a lot of elbow work. But you'll have a nice game that you're very satisfied with, for around market value.
The biggest expense is your labor and how you value it. As a hobby, sure, take as long as you like. Without that as a factor it's just going to be materials.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kruzman-clear-install-kit-is-a-life-saver
You might want to get one of these kits for pf drilling. Helps avoid chipping the clearcoat. I haven’t used it yet, waiting for cpr to release Barracora.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:I'll be honest, I actually think I could restore this machine for $3000-3500, that's including the initial purchase cost for $1000
You could find a decent ww for 3500 and save yourself a shit ton of headache imo.
Quoted from Blackbeard:You could find a decent ww for 3500 and save yourself a shit ton of headache imo.
You say headache, i say fun.
Sometimes with a game like this take it as a challenge to just make it a nice, functional junkyard dog type of game. Looks bad but is solid and plays great. Raising inserts? Use it as a template to learn how to level them for later projects. Ditto with the other things..... great way to learn on something that didn't cost much but has many challenging things. Anyone can throw parts at something, a real challenge is take crap and with ingenuity turn it around.
Quoted from shimmydisc:https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kruzman-clear-install-kit-is-a-life-saver
You might want to get one of these kits for pf drilling. Helps avoid chipping the clearcoat. I haven’t used it yet, waiting for cpr to release Barracora.
Nice! Thanks. I will need that very likely to be safe.
Quoted from Blackbeard:You could find a decent ww for 3500 and save yourself a shit ton of headache imo.
Personally, I wanted a solid state machine I could learn on that also happened to be a really good one like Whirlwind.
My first game, a Surf 'N Safari, actually has 0 electronic problems and few if any hardware problems so while it helped me learn cleaning and other basics it didn't teach me much else with regards to repair.
I also have a Sky Jump specifically to learn about EM machines.
On top of that, I don't have the finances to outright pay for a Whirlwind. The CPR playfield for example, I setup PayPal credit on it which is much more reasonable for me to pay $150 each month for 6 months.
Same goes for buying other parts i need spread out over time.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:I don't even think this plays correctly yet. That will be the first thing to do is get everything mechanically and electronically functioning
it took me, 2 months to get playing, but was in the exact shape of this one only your boards appear to look decent.
Quoted from Blackbeard:You could find a decent ww for 3500 and save yourself a shit ton of headache imo.
yep, I would get this thing playing as is before I dropped $3500 and months of my time.
Quoted from woody76:yep, I would get this thing playing as is before I dropped $3500 and months of my time.
That's my goal!
The 1/8 Amp slow blow fuses weren't available at my home depot so I may just have to order them from PBR.
Alright, I did some quick end of day stock trading, then checked up on the status of the legs soaking in the Evap-O-Rust. FYI this soaked for approximately 24 hours.
Here are the results!
Oh yeah, this stuff is the real deal! It won't perform miracles, but it's a hell of a lot better than what it was before!
The bolts came out good too, though some of them I'm replacing because the threads had rotted completely off. Leaving a machine out in the rain will do that...
Here's what they looked liked before. Notice anything...different?
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Oh yeah, this stuff is the real deal! It won't perform miracles, but it's a hell of a lot better than what it was before!
That kinda looks like a miracle to me
Quoted from mcluvin:That kinda looks like a miracle to me
It's pretty amazing. What was sad to see was the paint from the cabinet is literally stuck on several of the legs. This Whirlwind really went through hell.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:It's pretty amazing. What was sad to see was the paint from the cabinet is literally stuck on several of the legs. This Whirlwind really went through hell.
That cab is a lost cause. Might be cool to keep it original as sort of a rat rod pin though. Maybe ask HEP if they'd sell you a new WW cab. You'd think by now somebody would be offering prepainted cab kits (some assembly required).
Quoted from mcluvin:That cab is a lost cause. Might be cool to keep it original as sort of a rat rod pin though. Maybe ask HEP if they'd sell you a new WW cab. You'd think by now somebody would be offering prepainted cab kits (some assembly required).
If I can get a cabinet for a good price (like $250 or less), then it would probably be worth it. But if a new/used cabinet costs anywhere from $750-$1000, I'd rather just try and save this one.
The CPR playfield came in last week, and it looks very nice! Right now I have it out just letting it cure.
While it is doing that, I've been trying to figure out via guides online as to which pins/connector I test the voltage on for the display with my multimeter. (I'm still a big newbie dummy to this). The biggest priority by far for me is getting that working, because right now the machine does appear to work normal if I go into diagnostic mode, then press the CPU button on the MPU.
But because I can't see the display, I don't know what errors may be showing up and what to specifically test.
Quoted from yaksplat:Page 90 of the manual.
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Wow, how did I not see that! Thanks!
So I would take one connector of the DMM and put it on the 100 Volt, and where would the other go? To a ground?
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Lancaster, NY