(Topic ID: 213534)

Undertale: Pinball Edition

By Gornkleschnitzer

3 years ago


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  • 174 posts
  • 43 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 60 days ago by Gornkleschnitzer
  • Topic is favorited by 35 Pinsiders

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There are 174 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 2 years ago
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:

Most likely the same polished steel that other games use for their guide walls. My recent understanding is that stainless isn't the holy grail of metals and can have corrosion issues. Thicker would be better as well; the inlane guides and habitrail deflectors are close to 1/16" and are a lot more resilient to bending, and I probably should have used that thickness for everything.
PBL uses some very nice (and shiny) steel for their ball trough assembly, so probably something like that. I will be looking into how to acquire such a thing for my next build, for which I am planning on using flat steel for not only the ball guides, but for the habitrails as well, as inspired by Quetzal's "Captain Nemo."

That looks amazing and I am going to seriously consider doing that on all my restorations. The stainless I am currently using was a little rough as sent to me, but I took a wire wheel to it to smooth it out. It's actually pretty shiny, although nowhere near your mirror pic. I assumed this process would have removed most of the rough/loose grain, but I guess I was wrong.

The grained stainless is just cheaper, nothing special about it to my knowledge, and the ball makes a mess of it over time. That's why I don't understand why people go out of their way to REGRAIN it, when it would be much better performing (and looking) going the other direction and mirror-finishing it. If you use a couple buffing wheels and step through the brown, white, green rouge, you can get the ball guides super mirror-finish shiny and super resistant to ball trails.

When you get it all shiny, how about bringing the machine out to one of the west coast shows like Golden State Pinball or Pin-a-gogo or CAX? I'd like to play it, but it's been too far away!

#152 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

the ball makes a mess of it over time

Well, that explains a lot of things.

The only barriers to west coast shows are cost of travel and how-the-heck-do-I-drag-a-pin-that-far. I'm not a rich guy, so the closer to one show per year I get, the better off I am.

#153 2 years ago
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:

Well, that explains a lot of things.
The only barriers to west coast shows are cost of travel and how-the-heck-do-I-drag-a-pin-that-far. I'm not a rich guy, so the closer to one show per year I get, the better off I am.

$300 will get your pin from any Fastenal to any other other Fastenal. To have the chance to play it, I bet the organizers of any decent-sized show would help or outright cover that, and we could take up a collection to bridge a gap if it wasn't quite enough. Be nice to be able to play it out west.

#154 2 years ago

I didn't even think of that, but yes - that would probably work!

1 month later
#155 1 year ago

Well, nobody will ever be complaining about the ramp switch again, and it's thanks to a new part that is now available here!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mrs-for-ramps-a-universal-solution-to-plastic-ramp-microswitches

The center ramp switch was just BAD. No matter how I adjusted it, it would either trap a slow ball or miss a fast one.

IMG_20200216_154045343 (resized).jpg

After hearing about M&M Creations' new switch, I showed some interest in trying it out, so I bought one. It showed up yesterday, and I got my chance to install it this afternoon. The switch includes a diode built in, and pre-tinned wires in green and white to match the traditional WMS/DE colors. Of course, this didn't actually match the pre-redone ramp wiring, but apparently I at least had the foresight to match green to green.

One thing I found about the new magnetic reed switch is that it's very, well, magnetic. As a direct replacement for the microswitch, it had enough power to grab and hold a slow-moving ball. This is probably a non-issue for the games it is designed for, and it's flexible enough to address this issue too. Since it is self-adhesive, it can be mounted anywhere - so I just placed it in the bend, at which the ball is already going to be fast enough to get by:

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The result? I love it. It doesn't trap the ball at any speed (once it has been positioned appropriately), it always detects it passing by, and the detection range isn't too wide that I get false positives from anything nearby. The ramp walls are stainless steel, and thus non-magnetic and don't affect it. I wouldn't fill a whole game with these $30 switches, but for individual applications, it's perfect.

Disclosure: I bought the switch myself and was not paid to write this review. I am just really happy with it.

1 year later
#156 84 days ago

Necro'd.
Back from the dead.
Reports of this thread's demise were greatly exaggerated.
"But it refused."
OMORI did not succumb.

Haha, it's cute to look back at the end of the third page, all hopeful for bringing this game to MGC for 2020 with new code.... ha... haha... yeah...

BUT... after two years of convention withdrawal symptoms, I'm finally preparing to go back to one of my favorite places, and my famous build needed some refurbishment before the big weekend. With the game sitting at the Pinball Collective surrounded by useful tools, Jesse and I pulled the playfield. I don't own a rotisserie, but I do own sawhorses and an old lockdown bar receiver - and that was good enough for us.
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My rewire of the game as detailed on page 2 included a whole bunch of Molex connectors, and this was a lifesaver as I disassembled the top quarter of the playfield. Subassemblies came off with just a few screws and a pull of a plug.
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The exception was the center ramp, which shared a wire harness with the Librarby award light. Not a huge setback, just had to remove that socket to get the ramp off.

With the upper playfield finally exposed again, I could focus on the things that needed fixing. "If you can read this, the game isn't fully assembled yet "
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What needed fixing, you might ask? Awful shot rejection! The Resort VUK and the Skeleton House saucer were particularly bad offenders of this. I considered various methods of addressing the design flaws, and managed to come up with some solutions. The VUK took some experimenting, but I made it work. I curved the lower guide wall up to reduce the area the ball can bounce, then added a one-way gate (tumble-polished to perfection) just off to the side. Between the bounce off the wireform, the bounce back from the moved lower wall, and finally the gate, Mettaton's resort rejects a lot less shots. I tried a bunch manually and got almost every shot.
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On the other side, the saucer needed work one way or another. There was a little wireform guide that was literally just a bent paper clip, which I immediately discarded as it kept falling out and blocking the ball. I noticed that the shot often bounced back and diagonally to the left, so I added a mini-post. To help deflect the ball down, we added a rubber post sleeve at the mount screw - invisible from normal play - and it seemed to work extremely well. It still rejects occasionally, as does the resort, but both shots are quite a bit better now.
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Once the tougher maintenance was done, we dropped the playfield back into the game, hooked all the wires back up, and gave it a quick test. To my great relief, nothing broke or failed or fried as a result of pulling the playfield.
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The bottom two flippers are getting rebuild kits, after EOS troubles on the left and a broken link bolt on the right, and all four flippers are being replaced with black bats with green rubber. It follows the battle grid color scheme and I think it will come out looking nicely. A once-over with some Novus 2 and a fresh batch of color-matched LEDs for the inserts should really bring the game up to the visual standards I hoped for.

Past visitors who have played the game will probably be happy to hear it's gotten a code update as well. Besides the graphical improvements promised for the 2020 show, the new code includes new music cues, new random encounter multiballs, and some bug fixes.

The last two improvements are a new speaker panel - now that I can make them look nice - and a new lamp driver board. The game's lamp matrix has been annoyingly dim since the electrical redesign, and I only recently realized the reason why. The row drivers are switched with some optoisolator chips I had laying around. I didn't think much of this until I looked at the specs for those chips, and discovered that they are far, FAR underspecced for driving a row of LEDs. Mouser order is incoming for eight proper drivers and the perfboard to mount them to. The backbox circuitry is gradually becoming a mess, but it's a mess that works.

#157 83 days ago

Day two of refurb. Playfield surface was pretty scratched and dull. Fortunately, what better thing is there for polishing plastic than Novus Plastic Polish?
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As I hoped, it came out amazingly shiny once again, and played massively fast once everything was put together. And I'm loving how the new color scheme is looking.
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I took a couple of hours playtesting it to see what could be fixed. There were several things I had to throw onto the list of needed improvements - not the least of which is add some stucky-protection under the ramp.
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Also, the new code includes a new top-secret music replacement easter egg. Massive internet points for you if you recognize this...
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I fitted the slingshots with slightly tighter rubber (2-1/4" rather than 2-1/2") and will actually need to crank up the power level on them now, as well as the skeleton house saucer. The waterfall scoop, on the other hand, could probably come down in power, as it has a pretty forceful kick that makes it hard to take control from the flipper it feeds.

The parts are ordered for my updated lamp driver, and a quick update to the firmware code will hopefully fix the significant ghosting issues.

#158 83 days ago

This cover was made for a multiball...

#159 83 days ago

So glad to see this thread get necroed <3

Dont suppose you are bringing it to Expo or Pintastic?

#160 83 days ago

Nope, sorry to inform - money's a little tighter this year and MGC wins on proximity...-ish.
...I don't suppose you're going to MGC? If you are, I'd love to give Sonic a flip!

#161 83 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

This cover was made for a multiball...

Oh, definitely. I could imagine this remix further remixed with the synthesized electric guitar track that Williams used until DCS.

The real mind-blower: Despite how famous it is, and how much the song is considered synonymous with Undertale... the song Megalovania is not present in this pinball game. So far, no one has noticed.

#162 83 days ago
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:

Oh, definitely. I could imagine this remix further remixed with the synthesized electric guitar track that Williams used until DCS.
The real mind-blower: Despite how famous it is, and how much the song is considered synonymous with Undertale... the song Megalovania is not present in this pinball game. So far, no one has noticed.

Youtube has a "contact" button...this remix would be fantastic in a multiball.

I would notice, but it hasn't made it out west yet. Hopefully this pandemic thing is getting controllable and shows without risk of death will be a thing again.

#163 82 days ago
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:

Nope, sorry to inform - money's a little tighter this year and MGC wins on proximity...-ish.
...I don't suppose you're going to MGC? If you are, I'd love to give Sonic a flip!

Nope not enough time off

#164 79 days ago

Today's "lunch" break.
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A mostly drop-in replacement for the lamp matrix row drivers, now actually capable of driving the necessary current. Hoping it works, as it was arranged by studying other circuits and not actually by testing on the solderless breadboard...

Front header comes off the lamp board via a new connector I made up; rear header should be plug-and-play with the existing connector that runs to the lamps. 18V is applied via the center traces, and soldering a power wire to the mount on the left should do the trick to get it there. The controller board that actually runs the matrix has been updated with a ghosting fix so obvious I should have seen it long ago - previous columns were not being turned off as the next row is turned on. Whoops.

#165 79 days ago

Going to expo this year?

#166 78 days ago

Nope, no Expo - although at this point I think we all realize that. I did have a secondary excuse for not going - company-wide inventory day is today at work, and I'm the helpdesk for all six branches statewide.

But let's see what I can get done in the week until MGC. New speaker panel build is in progress; now that I know how to build a decently nice one, I expect UT's backbox to look slightly less homemade. Slightly.
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Up next will be filling, sanding, cutting out a panel of perforated sheet metal for the speaker grille, then painting everything.

#167 78 days ago

Filling and grille are now complete, with the grill cut to fit the flat face and ten screw holes drilled into it. I filled the corner joint with fiberglass filler - same as I did for the Volcano Blast cabinet - and tomorrow I'll be sanding it smooth and applying the primer.

In other news, I added up all the stats files I had, dating up to the 24th of this month from sometime in February or March of 2019. This machine has survived 1,761 documented plays now!

#168 77 days ago

New speaker panel got the first coats of paint. I really liked how the speaker panel for VB turned out, so I went with the same process on this one.
First of two coats of gloss black on the wood panel.
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Single coat of flat black on the metal grille.
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More software and firmware to deal with. Found a couple bugs while play testing, some coil power levels need adjusting, etc.
And now I have a rush order coming in for a new flipper coil, because guess who MELTED ONE today. Of course that couldn't have happened last week; it has to be six days before the show.

We do not speak of the lamp driver.

#169 77 days ago
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:

And now I have a rush order coming in for a new flipper coil, because guess who MELTED ONE today.

If you do like JJP (or even better, HEP) does with their coils, putting a molex connector on each one, you can add an inline fuses for each coil easily. It also makes it very easy to change coils. Never melt another coil.
HEP_Coils (resized).jpg

#170 76 days ago

That's not a bad idea at all, and I'm definitely starting to understand why he does that. Might order a batch of those for the future.

Was fairly busy today but did run some new code down to the shop to fix the software/firmware issues I ran into during last test run. Speaker panel got its second coat, probably will get the whole thing assembled tomorrow and then I just need to scrounge up a decent speaker amp board.

Also, there's a new music replacement easter egg. Hold right flipper as you start the game.
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If you get this reference, I love you.

#171 74 days ago

Not quite installed yet - struggling to make time around work - but new speaker panel is almost ready to install. Just need the wires and a bit of pre-drilling on the mounting blocks.
The old one:
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The new one:
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I think the new one is just a tad bit nicer than the old - and with the speakers nearly twice as big, I'm fairly certain this game will finally be audible at the show. This panel even has the backglass lock properly centered!

#172 69 days ago

Thanks so much to all who voted!
I'm exhausted tonight but I'll be back to this thread later to share stats and more.

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#173 69 days ago

Congratulations!

1 week later
#174 60 days ago

Stats and more, I had said. So here you go! Finally got the game unfolded today and took the opportunity to grab the stats file - in addition to finally locating the wireless mouse that had gone missing. (The mouse left the hole and got the cheese; I am filled with determination.)

The game took on 240 plays over MGC weekend, which is down a bit from previous shows - but to be expected when it was down for several hours. Oh yeah, more on that later for those who missed the fun... The top score of 1,508,810 went to the skillful AAAAAAAAABCEH, who played for nearly 14 minutes and filled up as much of the boss-fight heart as anyone could this time around, in addition to a multiball.

Toriel's mode continues to dominate in points awards, averaging just under 77,000 points each time with the best target basher milking it for nearly 200K. The Snowdin saucer continues to disappoint me, taking a total of 64 successful hits and trapping balls an unfortunate number of times. Ball traps were still a major issue here, with one unlucky match taking 11 ball searches. The problems here are 100% top-right; balls can get stuck in the area around the Snowdin saucer in the event of a bad eject bounce, however several balls also got stuck underneath the center ramp, wedged between that and the Lesser Dog plastic near the bumper. I had to free up several stuck balls from this area, and I think the only solution is going to be a very large airball shield to close off the space.

Nobody managed to face Flowey or even Asgore at the show. Additional game rules like Random Encounter Multiball may have played a part in this; in general I think this stat is okay as it's called a wizard mode for a reason. Once again, the game shows a slight bias towards the right-hand side, and whether this is due to its design or if the game's leveling was skewed right isn't entirely clear. I did adjust the levelers some way into the show, which I suppose could have made up the difference. 167 left drains vs 172 right, and 15,167 left flips vs 16,049 right.

While my "improved" saucer's 64 hits were disappointing, some shots definitely took a pounding - with the most commonly hit target actually being the Grillby scoop this time around at 869 hits - and the center ramp a distant second place at 495 hits. I believe this is due to the flipper configuration having changed since the first two shows; following installation of a rebuild kit, they aim a bit lower now, with center ramp shots being slightly less likely. Half as many shots again (222) went to the Lab saucer - which, again, was a poor design that I couldn't do much to fix. One thing that did make me happy, though, is seeing exactly the same number of successful shots to both the Hotland passageway and the Resort kicker. While the Resort probably did reject a fair number of shots, it was hit more times than it was at the game's debut show, despite the game being played less times in total.

Scores averaged just over 190K, making me think the replay score ought to come down a bit or I could look into auto-percentaging. In total, the game took on slightly more than 13 hours of active play time.

So, you might be wondering what was with the downtime I mentioned earlier. What happened there? Well, obviously not flipper problems, as everything was working great as I packed up the game, and I'd been given such good advice about adding fuses.

I mean, other than how I got busy with other things at the show and never actually took the opportunity to install those fuses.

So I get a text from Josh, a relatively local Pinsider, telling me my left flipper was weak. (Thanks, Josh!) Of course, I was on my way out of the Wisconsin Center for Saturday dinner at that time, so I did what any sensible person would do and said screw dinner and went right back in to do service work. I mean, how hard can it be to fix a weak flipper, right?

Turns out, it was a massive struggle. After multiple attempts at EOS adjustment came up fruitless, I chopped out the switch and picked up a new one from Rob Anthony's table. There, surely that would solve the problem. I buttoned up the game, left for dinner, and came back to find the flipper limp again.

At this point, Matt Benzik - builder of "Motor City Taxi" and generally great guy - paid me a visit, ending up helping me troubleshoot flipper problems - for at least an hour. We tested the drive circuitry, voltage, grounding, and the coil. When the coil itself left us suspicious, we replaced it with one of Rob's, during which I dropped my soldering iron and burned my finger. Even then, troubles - although jumpering across the coil to bypass EOS proved the switch was, in some way, the culprit. It finally took Rob doing some solder-based bulletproofing on the EOS switch itself before the game was finally fixed, and with the flipper back to full power, I closed up the game for the last time that Saturday, confident my troubles were over.

Sunday I came down to the arcade to find the game shut off and unplugged.

And when I found the troublesome left flipper now firmly bound in one place, I had only myself to blame. Not enough time spent on EOS adjustment led to, at some point, the switch failing to open, burning up my second flipper coil in a week. Old-style flipper EOS setups just aren't worth it, guys. Do it right. Let a computer take control of those coils.

But setbacks or no, it was generally another great run for Undertale, with several attendees actually reporting they'd come to this show SPECIFICALLY to play this game - which made me feel warm and fuzzy. Marco TV put the homebrewers in the spotlight with on-stage interviews, with the last one going to Undertale - fortunately moved to Sunday after I'd fixed all the flipper problems. It showed up in one of their recorded streams at the 2:04:00-or-so mark.

There are 174 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

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