Wichita, KS
I used a blown out Dracula for the Star Gazer I am building. And a Nine Ball cab is now my QS cab. They will be restored with "improvements".
(Topic ID: 257665)
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Dracula
Stern Electronics, 1979-
Quicksilver
Stern Electronics, 1980
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Quoted from djblouw:Well, we have our answer: it looks like shit. Bummer.
So, now I’ll have to sand this layer of clear down, and bust out the automotive grade silver (previous silver was just rattle can). I guess that’s what I get for trying to get it done quickly.[quoted image]
Can't you just color sand the clear to smooth it out and then lay down another coat of clear followed by another color sand and buff and polish?
Quoted from djblouw:I wish I could. The silver bled, and almost looks like it has runs in it. I know it’s not the clear, as it is very smooth to the touch.
I looked closer at your pic. I can see the mottling or bleeding you talk about. Bummer.
My body shop paint supply store fixed me up with some silver color using a paint product called Omni. It is cool stuff. It is a two-part paint with base and catalyst that cures after you paint it. But is does not set up in a covered can. So, some of the Omni that I mixed a couple of months ago is still pourable and usable to this day.
I let it sit for a day and then hit with the clear. I had no problems.
Omni is a product of PPG. Your auto paint supply store can mix it in any color you want.
Quoted from djblouw:Silver base coat laid back on. This time, two-component paint was used. Results are much nicer. I may not need to clear coat, but probably will just to be safe.[quoted image]
Get your stencils on and shoot some clear. You will be glad you did. Clear just works good at adding depth.
2 weeks later
Quoted from djblouw:Stern didn’t use t-nuts back then (properly). They threaded a bolt from the underside, then just put a nut on the top. I’m sure this was a cost savings measure.
Well, I’m obviously not saving cost on this, and not doing a “to the letter” restore. So I’m going to add them in as I see fit.
First, drill for the center barrel, then for the small prongs. Hammer them in with a rubber hammer. And it’s ready to go.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Observation: The machined thread posts that install into the T-nuts you have added sometimes are not long enough to go all the way through the T-nuts (ideally you want screw threads protruding all the way through). On my Data East pin, T-nuts were used extensively and what DE did was to use a Forstner bit to undercut the area in the play field which shortened the distance the T-nut had to cover. You might try locking down some posts to check for adequate post screw length before you put it all together.
Quoted from djblouw:You can see in the picture I posted that I did make a small angle bracket. However, I'm not sure it's 100% correct, since I made if from pictures. If someone has one that can provide dimensions to me, yeah I can make that too.
I sent my parts to Mantis as samples. I think my Catacomb uses the same part. I’ll get you the measurements when I get home tomorrow.
Mantis is going to stay away from this project now, so I will for sure be needing a set of your guides for sure.
There are a couple of other threads dealing with these QS guides. You need to consider posting there that you are going to be making these so all that want a set will know you are the one to contact.
Quoted from djblouw:You can see in the picture I posted that I did make a small angle bracket. However, I'm not sure it's 100% correct, since I made if from pictures. If someone has one that can provide dimensions to me, yeah I can make that too.
I have the dimensions you need to make the ball stop bracket.
The material measures .060" thick.
The drawing is not the cleanest but I think you will be able to read it OK. If not, let me know and I will make improvements.
Anybody doing a scratch build with a Mirco play field is going to need one of these ball stops.
With these pics work OK for you?
EDIT: The diameter of the two holes is 3/16" or .18".
Quoted from djblouw:Perfect! That’s enough to get it built.
I actually was very close with my first mock up. I just had thicker material, and a little short on the length. I’ll get some new material and report back when complete.
Thicker material won't hurt anything as long as other dimensions are correct. The length dimensions are important, though.
2 weeks later
Quoted from djblouw:Jumper wires are placed on for the GI.
Here’s how I wired this portion.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Nice work on the wiring. However, you have the reds and whites reversed from the way the factory wired them up.
Not a biggie but you have e to pay attention if you have other Sterns in your stable.
Quoted from djblouw:I’m using the color codes that are on the chart, made by the guy that did the harness. I figured if I follow this, there will be less chance to mess it up[quoted image]
I know Shawn. He is doing great work for all of us.
What I am referring to is how the red and white wires hook up.
The red wire solders to the base at the bare wiring. And the white attaches to the tang at the bottom of the light socket. The bulbs are not polarized so it is no biggie, but I thought you should know.
Quoted from djblouw:GI harness has been installed.
Lots of soldering. If you’re doing this job, make sure you have moving air across your pf (like a fan). Otherwise you’ll end up with a bad headache—don’t ask me how I know.[quoted image]
Pick your poison.
It is interesting to see the differences in prices for fume extractors.
The OP needed someone who could take a look at the guides he is going to make. I volunteered. I installed them on my Mirco QS play field last night.
One tab had two locating holes that were off about .020"- .030". The OP has been advised and is going to make the minor adjustment on locating these two holes.
The guides look great and are of very nice quality.
Installation was easy and straight forward.
I think all who are buying a set will be pleased.
3 weeks later
Quoted from seshpilot:Are the harnesses made by Third Coast going to cover everything (solenoids, lights, coin door, etc...)?
You need to ask Shawn to be sure. His play field harness covers the play field. His displays harness covers the back box. The coin door is going to be part of the cabinet wiring and I don't know if he does cab wiring. But I think the cab wiring is pretty much the same for most of the Sterns. The cab wiring includes the tilt board.
1 week later
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:What are you using as a parts supply list for the coils, switches, diodes, capacitors, etc etc? Perhaps the QS game manual or an old Starn parts catalog? Also curious who you're buying most of your parts from.
If you're documenting everything you're purchased so far, I'd be really interested to see the list
Looks fantastic & new
This page from the QS tells you the type of coil you need for every solenoid.
You can download the whole manual from IPDB.org. But I would recommend you just buy a new reprint from Marco. An old Stern parts catalog with give to lots of part numbers but they are mostly useless today.
If you call Steve Young, all you have to is tell him you need some rollover switches, some pop switches, some outlane switches etc. and he can fix you up. He can print you a manual, as well. But Marco's are nicer.
1 week later
Quoted from djblouw:I now have most of the switch harness laid in and soldered. It was pretty easy to get done, taking it one switch at a time.
I needed a little clarification from Shawn for determining wire orientation on the switch. He was quick to help me figure it out.
The next step will be to get the coils on molex connections (except the pop bumpers) and get those into place.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Looks nice. All new parts. I would suggest that you place your inlane and outlane switches a little closer to their activation lever for more positive action. You are going to have a lot of blade flex with your current location.
Quoted from mof:Cool.
Is it a form factor that only works for Stern? Are they still made?
They fit like any other pop bumper ring assembly.
They started with Cheetah and ran to the end with Dragonfist.
PBR still shows them on his website with the Stern part numbers but they are obsolete.
But now shapeways make them live again.
Quoted from slochar:What's a bell?
Here's photos of a complete mech I bought (off a Wico Aftor, same pops as later sterns.) and a couple plastic rod and rings vs. the original metal[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Whoa. Pinside shows there are 24 Dragonfist owners. You collection is private, but I see you are hoarding a Dragonfist in there.
Nice to meet you #25. 
1 week later
Quoted from djblouw:Had to make another quick modification on the harness.
The fuse holder should have a yellow wire to one side, and ideally a blue/white to the other. The instructions referenced an additional strand of yellow to run to the blue/white on one of the flippers. But I went a different route:
Pull the blue/white wire back from the left flipper (the looped wire). You'll need to cut some zip ties to get it back far enough to get to the fuse holder. Once there, cut the blue/white wire to length.
[quoted image]
Then cut the zip ties on the loose wire, so you have enough length to run back to flipper.
[quoted image]
Solder the three blue/white wires to the fuse holder (yellow is already hooked to the other side)
[quoted image]
And then run the wire back to the harness and clean everything up.
[quoted image]
I don't understand this. All of my Sterns have two yellow wires on one side of the slo blo fuse holder and two blue/white wire in the other side. The nice thing about this setup is if you need to isolate a faulty coil you can unsolder the yellow wire one side at a time.
I understand with wiring that there is no one right way to string up. E.G. My Star Gazer build will be strung up differently than all of the other builds. I will allow that the wiring diagrams on all of my Sterns show only one wire coming from each side of the fuse, but under the play field there are always 2 wires coming from each side of the fuse bus. So I am trying to understand why you went with 1 yellow wire and 3 blue/white wires.
I am no electrician but if all of the coils are on one long yellow wire, could that affect the voltages to the coils that are farthest from the fuse?
EDIT: Your build under play field looks very nice.
2 weeks later
Quoted from djblouw:Yes, 1/8”.
It’s not tight in the slot. It’s just too wide and tall to have the plastic trim on it.
Measure the width. I'll measure one of my BG Resto's. If it is too wide, maybe you can get a replacement.
I don't know how much or little that you can get into the backbox. If it is just a little too tight you might be able to sand the edges of your trim.
I had a similar problem with the used Stern cab I am using. The back glass with trim installed was near impossible to get installed for the last inch. It turned out that a factory flaw was my problem. I don't know how, but the gap up top where you lock the glass in at was too shallow to allow the glass to slide all the way up. It took a Dremel and a cutoff wheel to get in there and deepen the gap/groove to allow full movement of the back glass.
Sidebar: I had replaced the two trapezoid pieces one the sides of the back box and instead of gluing my homemade replacements on, I screwed them on. If I had of glued them on, I would have had to chop them off to get in and what I did. Chopping them off would have destroyed my paint job and my Pinball Pimp stencil work .
Extra: I just measured my Dragonfist back glass I got from BG Resto. It measures 28 9/16" wide. With the lift rail installed and the top locker piece of metal on, it measures 25 5/8" tall. I'm guessing with out the left rail and the top locker on that it would measure 25 1/2" tall.
Quoted from djblouw:Backbox has all the hardware installed.
I’ve gotta do a couple checks on the driver board, and rectifier before installing those.[quoted image]
Where did you locate the big sheets of aluminum you are using for your ground plane?
1 week later
Quoted from seshpilot:Good to see that the 16b-6 transformer actually fits in the head. I was wondering about that. I wonder why they moved all that stuff down to the cab in v2 games?
The Dracula thatt I bought as a donor had the transformer on the cab floor. I did not notice this one being in the back box. That is a Bally style setup.
Is it a 16B-6?
Quoted from play_pinball:Some of the early Sterns had that same transformer in the head setup. I’m converting a Wild Fyre and that’s got the same setup. Makes me curious (and hopeful) this is a 16b-3 and it’ll prove that will work.
A 16B-3 will work. A Bally 122-125 will work. But the more powerful Stern 16B-6 adds that extra bit of pizazz. My Nine Ball with an incorrect 16B-3 installed played OK. My Nine Ball with a correct 16B-6 transformer, "pick your superlative", burns up the table. Same for Dragonfist.
Here is a comparison between the larger Stern 16B-6 and the smaller Bally 122-125. The Bally unit is the same size as the smaller 16B-3.
You can see how much larger the coil windings are with the 16B-6. It makes all the difference in the world.
(Sorry OP. Did not mean to hijack your thread).
Quoted from slochar:The transformer differences is one of those mystical things that have been repeated over the last 30 years to describe classic stern "mojo". I would like for someone to actually test this difference out. The problem is, you need a large-ish sample size - so you don't get an exceptionally weak or strong transformer of either type to skew results.
Yes. My swaps with my 2 pins are certainly not an adequate sample size. The only thing I can say is that I "saw it with my own eyes". I won't say the differences are tremendous (except for Catacomb), but they are noticeable on my 2-flipper Sterns. Catacomb was unplayable when I placed a -3 transformer in it.
Quoted from slochar:For that matter, you're building a whole new game - go crazy and juice up the coils to 50 volts with a Williams transformer just for the coils. (Heck, high tap the -3 transformer!)
It is not just the flipper coils. All solenoids feel the bump. Would high tapping cure that?
The only difference, other then the visual differences ( the size) from my pics, is the amperage on fuse F-4 on the rectifier board. The voltages are all the same for both Stern -3 and -6 and also the Bally unit. The MPU-100 Sterns carry 5 amps at F-4 and the MPU-200 Sterns carry 7 amps. Fuse F-4 covers all of the coils: Flippers, slings, pops. Oh, and the 7 amp fuse calls for a Slo-Blo.
And I have thought it strange that the F-4 fuse callout is black ink on the MPU-100 pin and is red ink on the MPU-200 pin. Why did Stern feel the need to hi-light that in red ink?
Screen Shot 2020-04-19 at 10.10.47 AM (resized).png
One more question is: If the smaller -3 unit is placed in a -6 machine, do you keep installing the 5 amp fuse or do you have to step up to a 7 amp fuse since it is now in a MPU-200 7 amp pin?
Quoted from play_pinball:I do plan to relocate my transformer to the body, since I’m pretty sure that’s how Third Coast ran the lengths on the harness.
Interestingly enough, my Trident has the transformer and rectifier in the bottom of the cabinet.
The harness you use for your displays will determine where you locate. If you are going to use the original displays harness from your Wild Fyre with 6-digit displays, you are going to be placing your transformer in the back box.
If you want to move your transformer to the floor of the cab you will need to buy a QS displays harness from 3rd Coast.
As the OP noted, you can add the 7th digit in a 6 display harness, so your Trident harness could possibly be used, however, the credit/match wiring might not reach a different area on the back glass without a lot of harness mods.
I have to correct myself and apologize.
I went back through my manuals.
Meteor, Galaxy, and Ali all call for a 5 amp fuse for the F-4 solenoids/coils circuit. The relevant Stern drawing is 12-16B-6
At Big Game, the F-4 fuse callout is actually 7. 5 amps. The drawing number has been changed to ..............12-16B-6A
Seawitch through Freefall call for a 7 amp fuse at F-4. The drawing number is still ........................................12-16B-6A
At Lightning, the drawing number changes. The callout is still for 7 amp fuse but new drawing number is..........34D-464-S
Drawing 34D-464-S continues to Dragonfist at the end of the line.
Orbitor 1 was not considered.
( The 12-16B-6 drawing applies to both the 4-flipper pins as well as the 2-flipper pins. As noted, Nine Ball and Dragofist played OK with the 16B-3 transformer. The Catacomb was a disappointment with the -3 ).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meteor and Galaxy are original manuals.
Ali is a reprint
Big Game thru Freefall are original manuals, as are Split Second and Catacomb.
Quicksilver is a reprint.
Lightning, Iron Maiden are IPDB.
Viper data on IPDB is missing.
1 week later
Quoted from djblouw:Probably won't post what I spent on it (since I don't want to publicly shame myself, haha). But I have put together a BOM for it now, just without pricing.
How far were you into building your project before you threw your budget out the window
Quoted from djblouw:Since I got the donor game at a great price (since it was not working, and a project), it helped keep the total palatable. And of course less than a QS already restored would have cost.
Ahh..yes. The power of rationalizing
Quoted from ita47:Please start your own thread. I love following along on different builds and there aren't enough of them anymore. Its fun to see the progress and how different people do things. I have learned a ton from build threads.
I agree. I learn a lot by looking at other people's work. Everybody has their own little twists on how to do something.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Classic_Stern:Thank you for giving away my last known classic stern secret. This is such a big difference on how they play and especially -3 to -6. Great write up and pictures. DUDE!!!
Thanks for confirming it It has been discussed in the past but mostly with question marks.
Checking the Stern manuals again (IPDB.org) Magic is the last MNPU-100 pin and the manual calls for the 16B-3.
And Meteor is the first MPU-200 pin and the manual calls for the 16B-6.
Quoted from seshpilot:I'm going to do a comparison of these 2 on my QS build, and will be able to speak with knowledge about what the difference (if any) actually is on this specific game. Not doubting you guys at all, just curious how this specific game handles the differences in transformer
If you decide you do not want your -6 transformer, I'll take it off your hands 
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