Cab looks amazing. This is going to be such a beautiful game when finished!

The Dracula thatt I bought as a donor had the transformer on the cab floor. I did not notice this one being in the back box. That is a Bally style setup.

Is it a 16B-6?

Some of the early Sterns had that same transformer in the head setup. I’m converting a Wild Fyre and that’s got the same setup. Makes me curious (and hopeful) this is a 16b-3 and it’ll prove that will work.

A 16B-3 will work. A Bally 122-125 will work. But the more powerful Stern 16B-6 adds that extra bit of pizazz. My Nine Ball with an incorrect 16B-3 installed played OK. My Nine Ball with a correct 16B-6 transformer, "pick your superlative", burns up the table. Same for Dragonfist.

Here is a comparison between the larger Stern 16B-6 and the smaller Bally 122-125. The Bally unit is the same size as the smaller 16B-3.

You can see how much larger the coil windings are with the 16B-6. It makes all the difference in the world.

(Sorry OP. Did not mean to hijack your thread).

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I have a Meteor that a previous owner installed what appears to be a complete assembly from an earlier game. The assembly is the 16B-3 size unit typically installed in the head of MPU-100 games. It looks like a reproduction unit however as everything, including the bracket is brand new. I believe it might be an aftermarket unit. It was installed laying “down” in the bottom of the cabinet as opposed to the upright orientation it would have had in the head - just looks funny like that. It has worked great from day one. Meteor has three flippers, the same as Dracula and Nugent so it will and does work fine. Using LED bulbs is of course a big help.

The transformer differences is one of those mystical things that have been repeated over the last 30 years to describe classic stern "mojo". I would like for someone to actually test this difference out. The problem is, you need a large-ish sample size - so you don't get an exceptionally weak or strong transformer of either type to skew results.

Especially in the case of new builds of Quicksilver machines - what on that machine is drawing so much current that would require the beefier transformer? 2 flippers, 2 drop banks, 3 pops, no multiball. The pops will get a work out that's for sure but either -3 or -6 transformers should be loafing most of the time.

I do wish that people building the QS's would mount the transformer and rectifier down in the body like it "should" be. I'd assume that the main enemy of the transformer losing power would be the heat that builds up in the coils, and the head is definitely the center of the heat production in the game.

For that matter, you're building a whole new game - go crazy and juice up the coils to 50 volts with a Williams transformer just for the coils. (Heck, high tap the -3 transformer!)

I wonder if that's a contributing factor to how the transformer differences got started.... maybe someone had a -3 jumpered for 120 v input, and a -6 for 110 v, and WOW what a difference when they swapped (as you'd expect....)

I do plan to relocate my transformer to the body, since I’m pretty sure that’s how Third Coast ran the lengths on the harness.

Interestingly enough, my Trident has the transformer and rectifier in the bottom of the cabinet.

You have to account for the head portion of the harness depending on what game you use as the base for the scratch build. That will determine where the transformer can go.

Yes. My swaps with my 2 pins are certainly not an adequate sample size. The only thing I can say is that I "saw it with my own eyes". I won't say the differences are tremendous (except for Catacomb), but they are noticeable on my 2-flipper Sterns. Catacomb was unplayable when I placed a -3 transformer in it.

It is not just the flipper coils. All solenoids feel the bump. Would high tapping cure that?

The only difference, other then the visual differences ( the size) from my pics, is the amperage on fuse F-4 on the rectifier board. The voltages are all the same for both Stern -3 and -6 and also the Bally unit. The MPU-100 Sterns carry 5 amps at F-4 and the MPU-200 Sterns carry 7 amps. Fuse F-4 covers all of the coils: Flippers, slings, pops. Oh, and the 7 amp fuse calls for a Slo-Blo.

And I have thought it strange that the F-4 fuse callout is black ink on the MPU-100 pin and is red ink on the MPU-200 pin. Why did Stern feel the need to hi-light that in red ink?

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One more question is: If the smaller -3 unit is placed in a -6 machine, do you keep installing the 5 amp fuse or do you have to step up to a 7 amp fuse since it is now in a MPU-200 7 amp pin?

The harness you use for your displays will determine where you locate. If you are going to use the original displays harness from your Wild Fyre with 6-digit displays, you are going to be placing your transformer in the back box.

If you want to move your transformer to the floor of the cab you will need to buy a QS displays harness from 3rd Coast.

As the OP noted, you can add the 7th digit in a 6 display harness, so your Trident harness could possibly be used, however, the credit/match wiring might not reach a different area on the back glass without a lot of harness mods.

That’s a good question. I have to check my Meteor to see what is in there. Look, I’m not an engineer but the need for a beefier transformer (16-B6) doesn’t pass the eyeball test in a lot of Stern games and especially not Quicksilver in particular. Quicksilver is not a mechanically complex game - at least not on the level of Medusa or Centaur and it could have easily been produced as a MPU-100 game as it more akin to Trident or Hot Hand. Exempting the coin lockout coil (which imo you don’t need) and other than the flippers, games that don’t have multi-ball only have to fire one coil at a time. In this situation the transformer should be loafing. Now get rid of the incandescent bulbs, which generate too much heat, and make the swap to LED displays to eliminate the use of that winding and its associated circuit and these games should be on cruise control.

Cure it? I thought the purpose was for all solenoids to be snappier - that's certainly what's happening when you remove windings from a coil.... snappier coils. There's only 3 variables here.... voltage, current, and resistance.

Don't change anything on your coils, resistance is the same, bump the voltage up - the current draw will be less. (i.e. high tapping)
Don't change anything on your coils, resistance is the same, bump the voltage down - the current draw will be more.
Lower the resistance on your coils by unwinding a couple hundred winds, or change the coil, voltage is the same, current draw will be more.

So basically - you want the extra current capability (if that's what the -6 offers) if you have a "hot" coiled machine, that's going to get a lot of play, over a short period of time.

....which is affected by the label on the solenoid driver board that tells you to use a 5 amp for 2 flipper games, a 6 amp for 3 flipper games, and a 7 amp for 4 flipper games. (Or maybe 7 amp for 3-4 flipper games I forget what my seawitch has on it). Sounds like a compromise of fuse resiliency vs. actual expected excessive current draw. The problem with fuses comes when idiots put wires or bolts on there giving the transformer and wiring time to melt down.

If your goal in utilizing the -6 transformer is for the snappier coil response over long playing periods (we've all played games even new ones where the power under load sags), subbing in a higher voltage transformer would certainly help, or if you're some kind of power demon (several years ago people were obsessed, and I mean OBSESSED, with getting all 25-450 flipper coils in their stern games. So much so that there was some sneering going on if you didn't have them - "how can you rip the spinner if your flippers are weak", etc. - you know, snobbishness)

That would only depend upon if the game actually NEEDS a 7 amp F4, per Stern's instructions, 3-4 flipper games. Unless the label on the SDB means the SDB itself, for some reason. That's not been documented anywhere but I suppose the only difference there could be fatter traces on the 3-4 flipper games or a heavier duty relay.... or marketing hype!

In a pinch not having the proper 7 amp fuse I've put 5 or 6 amp fuses in there and they're still working. It really depends on the game. A primary flipper coil with a maladjusted EOS is going to blow the fuse no matter what.... just how hot the coil gets before that happens seems to be the variable. After all, EM's have 10 or 15 amp fuses for the flippers - let's put EM transformers in the games to hot rod them!!

I have to correct myself and apologize.

I went back through my manuals.

Meteor, Galaxy, and Ali all call for a 5 amp fuse for the F-4 solenoids/coils circuit. The relevant Stern drawing is 12-16B-6

At Big Game, the F-4 fuse callout is actually 7. 5 amps. The drawing number has been changed to ..............12-16B-6A

Seawitch through Freefall call for a 7 amp fuse at F-4. The drawing number is still ........................................12-16B-6A

At Lightning, the drawing number changes. The callout is still for 7 amp fuse but new drawing number is..........34D-464-S

Drawing 34D-464-S continues to Dragonfist at the end of the line.

Orbitor 1 was not considered.

( The 12-16B-6 drawing applies to both the 4-flipper pins as well as the 2-flipper pins. As noted, Nine Ball and Dragofist played OK with the 16B-3 transformer. The Catacomb was a disappointment with the -3 ).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meteor and Galaxy are original manuals.

Ali is a reprint

Big Game thru Freefall are original manuals, as are Split Second and Catacomb.

Quicksilver is a reprint.

Lightning, Iron Maiden are IPDB.

Viper data on IPDB is missing.

Fortunately I already did this

on my original quicksilver the transformer is in the lower cabinet.

Good discussion about the various transformers. Greatly appreciated.

I like the black powdercoating decision on the door/rails

what about the inside of the cabinet? Looks like you went with pretty much all black in there too? very sharp for sure in the gloss black!

With the diode lead (banded side) crossing over the lug that has the wires soldered, you risk having a short circuit there if you ever accidentally press/bend on that diode lead. The correct way to hook up the diode would have been to the closer lug and the wires on the further lug.

Switch_WiringA.jpg

It's done to run one less cabinet wire to the coin door (cost saving).

On my nine ball 16B-6 the transformer was originally wired for 115v input voltage, but I noticed on the schematic that by moving a jumper wire on the tranformer you can change the it to 120v input voltage. I would have thought they would have originally been wired for 120v. What difference does this make if any? Our outlet voltage is 120v so should the jumper wire be changed?

If you have ~120v from the wall and you put a transformer wired for 115v input, you will get a slight boost on the output voltages. If you have ~115v out of the wall, and the transformer is set for 120v, you will get slightly less voltage.

If you have 120v from the wall and the transformer set to 120v, you will get the intended voltage levels on the output windings.

I don’t understand. All you were doing is tying the ground to another ground. It shouldn’t matter if you’re getting ground from the G.I., the feature lamps, or whatever. Ground is ground right? For that matter all of the feature lamps for letters S, I, L, V, E, and R are tied to the red rollover lane G.I. lamps too right?

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FYI, the braid wire connecting to each feature lamp socket is NOT ground. It's 5.4VDC power for the feature lamps. djblouw was correct in having to reroute that wire.

ah. Makes sense. Thanks for posting; I would have made the same mistake!

that always looked weird to me... they just cheaped out and didn't want to use an insulated wire to run DC power to all the lights? Ground braid run 5V DC and insulated wire enable ground from the transistor... weird!

You can imagine the huge time saving on the production line soldering bare wire opposed to having the assemblers stripping insulated wire for the common wiring to each lamp socket.

Much cheaper to manufacture. Also, traditionally the way it was done way back from the EM days.
Traditions die hard.

Oh wow, looks good. Please post more photos inside and out when you can. A video would be nice too.

Awesome work!

Very cool!

How far were you into building your project before you threw your budget out the window

Ahh..yes. The power of rationalizing

Whatever it cost (within some reason, of course) it was worth it--especially since you did the work. Always satisfying to say "I did that." Great job repurposing a game ready for the scrap heap into something totally cool and really hard to find.

Looks awesome man. Very inspiring! I like that yours have it's own unique look with the black flippers, apron & rails.

I'd really love to see your BOM list. It would be extremely helpful for when I start buying switches, sockets, etc etc.

How about some under the hood pics of the completed game? I'm really curious what the harness looks like with everything wired.