Stern wouldn't sell as many as fast. Also, with a limited # produced I'm sure it's easier for them to manage their profit margin on each unit. I think Stern takes less of a gamble when they produce limited # of LEs

They already use 'super addition' when they price the LE models.

Well they do run a premium for some games.

It would be nice if they did that for all games where there is an LE.

You mean the premium?

You'll always have a fraction of people that want to keep LE's limited. That is obvious from reading this board.

The only happy medium might be a limited run as I've suggested in the past. LE open to all orders up through X date. Satisfy demand for LE's and people late to the party get to choose the Premium. Even that thought rubs many the wrong way.

In the end, people looking for LE's have different motivations.

Some (most maybe?) are capitalists and want the LE for flipping or future profit potential.

Some are elitist and want the LE for bragging rights, as something not everyone else has.

Some are theme centric and want the LE for the specific art/trim package along with the "full" play package.

It's the latter group that has to swallow hard and try to scrounge for pre-orders taking risks with the speculators to try to tie down an LE on a theme that matters to them.

The flip side of the coin is what does the LE model do to Stern's bottom line. Are they leaving money on the table? Would the market tolerate a few 100 more LE machines in circulation on certain popular titles. Personally I hope they make a few more than 500 STLE's to satisfy demand.

-Jim

I think people love the LE because of just that. Numbers are low and they know a hit pinball can hold its retail value. If you print more and more and no numbers are known they the $8,000 pin might not be worth the resell later. Would it make you happy to know you put $8,000 in a pin and Stern or whoever. Did 5,000 machines, but you did not know that at the time you bought. Now your machine is worth $2500. Would that make you happy? Not me. It's the same thing in anything else in the world. Less that are available are always more pricey. Thats just my thoughts.

I thought that was the point of the premium. LE is for those that care about having that numbered plaque and status, premium is for those that want all the gameplay but don't necessarily want to pay for or can find the LE, and pro is for those that just want to play it at the lowest price point.

It's the art/trim that's different for the LE not the gameplay. That said, to many, the art matters a lot, and having the best (usually) art package for a theme on a small number of games is the issue some people chafe at when told "just buy the premium".

Stern already has an option of the full option pin with identical playfield and gameplay and it's called the "Premium". The LE is just a marketing ploy to drive up the demand for new titles by gussying the Premium up with a different art package and making it limited. If you want to stop people from hoarding and flipping LE's the solution is to refuse to pay over MSRP for an LE. At the current price-point the best thing to do is just pretend that the LE doesn't exist and buy a Premium which is the same exact game. Let the lucky LE owners enjoy their games and meanwhile you can enjoy playing the same game at a lower price point. It's a win/win for everybody except the flippers and hoarders.

He means stern did super addition to get the premium price of the super edition.

It's not win/win for people who care particularly about a specific theme. Then art/trim can make a big difference to some beyond just playability.

Over and over and over, I just don't understand why people can't understand this. When shelling out 7-8K for what amounts to a toy, aesthetics MATTER to some.

It's understandable that Stern is capitalizing on this by making the LE's cost more. What's driving some people insane is that they are going beyond that and restricting supply of the desirable art/trim package to such an extent that flippers/hoarders are also in on making too much money. That puts money in flipper's pockets, but does little for Stern directly.

Many say Stern benefits indirectly by the feeding frenzy it creates, ensuring that 'B playing' titles LE's sell well too. Whether that feeding frenzy translates into extra sales for Stern over the averaged long term is murky at best in my mind. I think it's simpler than that. Good playing titles will sell a lot of Premiums, bad ones will sell none. If a game is wildly popular in the pre-order stage, Stern leaves money on the table unnecessarily by overly restricting LE's. No reason not to produce a few hundred more if there is great demand and pocket the premium price people are willing to pay (flippers and hoarders be damned).

-Jim

I can wrap up a piece of turd in a glitter box, put a ribbon on it, and an LE plaque if you'd like. Truth is, it's still a ...well...you get the jist.

Truth is, this marketing scheme is working for stern. And anything that keeps their doors open producing pins; I support.

As long as the premiums offer the same features as the LEs, I don't mind that the LEs are, well, limited. You can get the same game with the premium model at a lower cost. Sure, it's lacking a plaque, but you don't play the plaque.

If they ever start leaving any features out of the premium models that the LEs have, then it's time to really complain.

I like the idea. They have been doing it in the car business forever.
Everyone can get the Limited Edition model with all the options if you have the moohla!
Stern could then have like a Home Edition,Pro Edition,Premium Edition and Limited Edition all at different price points. They would probably sell more pins in the long run.

And you'll always have a fraction of people that don't seem to know what the letters LE stand for.

These are my feelings exactly.

Stern just sold out all their LEs again, they aren't changing anything.

I understand that, but I think LEs simply have to be limited to serve their purpose. It does suck that not everybody who wants in can get in, I agree. But I guess that's nature of the beast when LEs are part of the hobby you love.

What I'm more irritated by is people who buy LEs simply to sit on them. Today's Mr. Pinball listings had someone dropping their stashed LEs at prices over $10,000. Can't they just go play the stock market instead?

It doesn't stand for 500 either. It could easily stand for 700, 1000, whatever Stern wants it to. It could also stand for no specific round number at all, and just refer to a run produced for a "limited" time. It would still be limited.

You guys that want it to stand for 500, can scream and shout all day as you do in these threads. I say more power to Stern to make more LEs for STLE, they will I hope, and people will buy them. Stern owes the flipper/hoarder nothing, and can make some extra bucks if they so desire by making enough LE's to satisfy preorders, and as I said, flipper's be damned.

All those sure that Stern won't increase the numbers, get real. If Stern thinks they can make more money with a different strategy, they will. There's no pact to make LE mean 500 or less. Forget it.

I think aesthetics has something to do with it but I think for the most part people just want the game that's going to be worth the most money and also have bragging rights over owning the more "rare" version of a game. It would be interesting to what would happen if the Premium version had the MOP artwork package and the LE had a different package such as "Ride the Lightning", which version would be most sought after. I think even if this were the case people would still be fighting it out over owning the LE version even if the MOP Premium was available at a lower price. I think it's less about aesthetics and more about trying to buy the most valuable stock and trying to be part of an exclusive LE club.

I'm not screaming. I just thought the sentence I quoted was kind of funny. LEs by their definition are limited. And I agree that Stern could adopt a different strategy if they thought it would be more profitable. Do you think it's telling that they haven't?

I'm not an investor. And I'll likely never own an LE since I won't buy a game until I've played it. But I have no problem with the LE model Stern and JJP are using. In fact, I REALLY want a Hobbit LE but they'll probably all be gone by the time I'm comfortable purchasing one. Yeah, it's kind of a bummer but I don't expect them to change a business model that works just to accomodate me.

The LE is great marketing for Stern. They create an imaginary demand for some people that think numbers are important in pinball. Which creates compulsive buying, before they even know if a game is shitty or not. Game doesn't even have to be good and they sell out. So that 20% of good games Stern shells out, looks more like 100% because LE's usually always sell out.

Run 1 version of the LE - this makes things so much better as far as not sticking dealers with inventory on a less popular machine via 2 or 3 different color schemes or themes

Run 1 Version of the Premium if the LE sell out - Simple but make it have button guards on the trim ala AC/DC

Run 1 Version of Pro

Have to disagree from a marketing point. If they both have the same things then why not just call it a pinball machine and go on. A "LE" stands for what? Limited Edition" It does not matter what you sell. This is not a idea, that is "new" and that Stern came up with. "LE" have been done in automobiles for years and years and many other products. You pay more for the special leather/carpet or so on and so on. Oh and the sales of that vehicle, will hold its value a little better. I disagree that every dealer is out to scam the customer. Maybe the vendor you deal with is that way, but that's where your not doing your home work. Yes, there are flippers that try that very thing. Hey, buy concert tickets and you'll get the concept real quick. This problem will always be here as it is with every product that is "LE".

How about running ONE edition of a game? We're seeing with Metallica that there's not a lot of real game difference between Pro and Premium. Aside from RGB lighting and some animated toys, the game itself is essentially the same. Stern has taken to adding unnecessary bling now to rationalize charging more money.

I don't need an animated snake head and cross, a few drop targets and different cabinet art so they can charge me $2K more for a game. Add in controlled RGB lighting, bump the price of the game up a few hundred, and sell ONE version full-featured game.

The Premium models are the "leather packages" of pinball. The LEs are more akin to a "collector's edition," which are very common in hobbyist industries. Collector's Editions usually aren't more functional or anything, they just have more visual flair or other cosmetic features that are unique to that edition.

Stern's Premium models are fully featured, but they aren't limited in any way. Their LEs are also fully featured, but they're geared 100% for people who care about exclusivity. It's for a different type of buyer.

From a marketing standpoint, they're actually doing very well.

Some people do want theses features. So if they buy a LE to get them and then when no one wants to buy your game when it does not have theses features do not complain and move on. FYI: All homes do not look alike, or the same size with the same square footage by the same builder surely we can all understand that concept. So should they all be the exact same price?

According to several replies in this thread, it stand for "Limited Addition"

I agree but why kill off the "LE's"?

This will not work for Stern. Stern needs us to get excited, sell our old games to free up funds for new games.

I don't think that they should. I think the actual issue is that we're not understanding the concept as a buying audience. Maybe they should rename LE to CE (collector's edition). Make sure people understand that the Premium is the same in regards to features as the CE, but the CE tag is purely a measure of status on top of the feature set.

And I get it when people get bummed out that the LE has a different art package that is unavailable on the Premiums, but at least the play (the most important aspect of a pinball machine) is 100% intact.

Exactly right,I like it the way it is when they add the premium which they should do for all games.

Always felt weird to me that there were people who not only wanted to have a machine, but also wanted to make sure others didn't get to. Not sure if there is a solution to it, but it seems silly to me that you'd have demand for something that they chose not to meet.

I would love to see this experiment done. Let Stern post the three artwork packages and open a poll. The package that gets the most votes becomes the Premium. The one with the second most, the LE. Then at least we get more games produced with the artwork most people think accents the theme best.

I'd love to see the mutiny among the LE owners who have their scarcity but have to settle for the 2'nd most popular art.

It will never fly. The LE ALWAYS gets the best artwork package. That's not by accident. They are asking more money for a reason (beyond scarcity). Specifically it is supposed to be the ultimate machine embodying the theme, and that includes the best art.

Of course they chose to meet it. It's called the PREMIUM.

It's already been said 10 times in this thread.

Once more:

Premium is THE SAME as the LE. All the same features. 100%. Different art/trim. That's it. ANYONE can buy and enjoy a full featured Metallica (and AC/DC).

Ok, here's a little story about puppies and human nature.

A test was done by dog rescue groups to see how to better adopt out black dogs/puppies, since they are for some reason overlooked and adopted out less at shelters. They took a set of 8 Labrador puppies out in public, 4 black and 4 brown/chocolate. All the same breed/size/gender, just the color was different. Then they'd show only 5 puppies at a time to people, and ask them which dog they preferred or would want to adopt. The test was that when they showed the 5 puppies, they would show either 1 black and 4 brown, or they'd show 4 black and 1 brown. Over 90% of the time, people picked the color that only 1 was available. It didn't matter if the dog was brown or black, it mattered that it was different and therefore perceived to be the most rare. I'm sure some people had an actual puppy color preference, as do some people who want the LE just for the art package, but most people wanted the 'limited' one. (This comes in handy with dog rescue by the way. If you have a black dog that desperately needs a home, be sure it is the only black dog available for adoption that day and surround it with brown dogs. Instant "limited edition" dog.)

I guarantee you that I could take 4 premium and 4 LE (without plaques or numbers obvious) pinball machines out in the general public and run the same test, and whichever machine was different would be picked the most. Probably not 100%, because again some people do have a distinct preference about artwork, but with the same gameplay available on both machines, whichever one is seen as the most rare is always going to be in more demand. When you do in fact label it as "limited edition" and tell the exact number made, this just upps the desire. Basic marketing 101. Stern knows this and uses it to create instant demand before the machine is even out, and when the limited editions are all sold out, then people have to 'settle' for the premium. Sadly, this is also why there are so many flippers, because they understand supply/demand as well.

I honestly would love to see a charity auction with a "super duper extra special limited edition" machine that had the same gameplay but a different art package, with only 1 made. Huge plaque on the back that said "1 of 1" on it. Think of the bragging rights someone could have for that, and all the money that could be raised for charity because you know some people would spend a fortune just to add it to their collection.

*sigh*

1. Get a premium.
2. Same gameplay.
3. Go "bling" it yourself for a lot less
4. Stop saying 'bling' in reference to your pin

If your buying a game to actually play. Nothing wrong with buying a premium (except the $2000 extra cost for $200 (if that) worth of extra playfield crap). In the grand scheme of things, does anyone really give a shit about the armor and cabinet art/Translite? Doesn't matter really. And if a game is good, nobody is really going to care. If every game has an LE. LE kinda loses it's effect. This premium and pro, is just a way for Stern to justify a 2k markup, and making you think your getting something special. In actuality, your getting the "full" version of the game, which you should be getting for $4300ish.

Ok, here's a little story about puppies and human nature.
A test was done by dog rescue groups to see how to better adopt out black dogs/puppies, since they are for some reason overlooked and adopted out less at shelters.

I adopted a black puppy!

She was "on sale" since it's hard to adopt them out...dunno why, they're the best!!!

Josie.jpg

Yada, yada, yada. All I want to know is whether I can pre-order one of those puppies and whether you can have the parents sign it.

Cute pup Rarehero!

Statsdoc- love your avatar pic.

Here's the puppy we got a couple months ago.

Picture1.jpg

Looks like a mix between a beagle and a chiwawa. Cute little guy though.

I think she's a Chiweenie ...chihuahua/dachshund mix

Josie2.jpg