Thanks for clarifying.
And yes, we're totally on the same page regarding the looks of painted wood 
(Topic ID: 195628)
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Quoted from CaptainNeo:I try to keep as much natural wood as I can, as painted wood looks painted, no matter how good you are at it.
Whenever I see the HEP playfields with that weird not-brown colour in the shooter lane I die a little inside.
Burlington, WI
Quoted from jwilson:Whenever I see the HEP playfields with that weird not-brown colour in the shooter lane I die a little inside.
I agree. I'd rather have a little deep ground in dirt but be natural than painted. If someone wants that stuff painted and they let me know, i'm happy to do it the way they want. But I default to saving as much natural wood as possible.
Quoted from jwilson:Whenever I see the HEP playfields with that weird not-brown colour in the shooter lane I die a little inside.
I am not sure if you are confusing me with someone else or not.In any event since you listed me specifically I am well versed in saving or enhancing natural wood without compromising it but not everything sent is salvageable .
Feel free to look through a gallery of playfield restorations instead of a basic thread on just one to understand what is salvageable what isn't as well as the thought process behind it.
http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/playfield-only-restorations
maybe he's talking about those shooter lanes that have that super dark brown layer to them. I have had fields like that, that are natural super dark brown in the middle layer. Stands out like a sore thumb.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:maybe he's talking about those shooter lanes that have that super dark brown layer to them. I have had fields like that, that are natural super dark brown in the middle layer. Stands out like a sore thumb.
Well he can look for those in the gallery they are certainly in there.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Well he can look for those in the gallery they are certainly in there.
but maybe he thought you painted them and didn't realize that's the way they are naturally?
what is that dark layer? Walnut?
Quoted from CaptainNeo:but maybe he thought you painted them and didn't realize that's the way they are naturally?
what is that dark layer? Walnut?
I am not sure but some playfields have much darker layers and transitions between plys than others.
Some have ugly knots in the shooter lanes that are complete eye sores. Others have milder changes from ply to ply.
Point being that there is no straight formula for this work it is all case by case. You look at a playfield. Find the potential in it and make the most of it for what that particular one is.
If you take in 600 playfields over the years and 50 need the most extreme repaints even down to the wood it does not mean it is a standard or preference it just makes it an option or need at times.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:I am not sure but some playfields have much darker layers and transitions between plys than others.
Some have ugly knots in the shooter lanes that are complete eye sores. Others have milder changes from ply to ply.
Point being that there is no straight formula for this work it is all case by case. You look at a playfield. Find the potential in it and make the most of it for what that particular one is.
If you take in 600 playfields over the years and 50 need the most extreme repaints even down to the wood it does not mean it is a standard or preference it just makes it an option or need at times.
Yup. Sometimes it's your only option.
For keeping brush strokes down, I use a very fine brush with very fine bristles, and keep feathering the paint over and over again so it smooths out.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Feel free to look through a gallery of playfield restorations instead of a basic thread on just one to understand what is salvageable what isn't as well as the thought process behind it.
I'm talking about this: http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album688/IMG_3751
I followed the thread on that game and when you painted not only the shooter lane that weird brown colour but also all around the flippers I was sad, because it 100% looks painted because there's zero wood grain anywhere in there.
But what did it look like before? He might have had to. Or the customer requested it. Sometimes that happens.
Quoted from jwilson:I'm talking about this: http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album688/IMG_3751
I followed the thread on that game and when you painted not only the shooter lane that weird brown colour but also all around the flippers I was sad, because it 100% looks painted because there's zero wood grain anywhere in there.
You probably just need to look closer at it,It is not full paint it is a candied transparent base coat.There is nothing weird about it as it is a very convincing match to the true wood and can be used to barely or heavily cover depending on the issues at hand..
The grain is still there it is just more muted due to the need to fill the vertical cracking.That is the challenge there.Covering well enough to hide the cracking but not so well that the grain disappears.The owner makes the call if they prefer ground in dirt or muted wood tones.9 out of
10 times they prefer muted wood tones to cleared over dirt from my experience.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-four-million-bc-restore/page/6
The process is covered start to finish in there too so it isn't a secret where it started out.A 47 year old play field comes with some challenges .
Quoted from jwilson:I'm talking about this: http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album688/IMG_3751
I followed the thread on that game and when you painted not only the shooter lane that weird brown colour but also all around the flippers I was sad, because it 100% looks painted because there's zero wood grain anywhere in there.
Same. playfield different lighting.
See the grain?
Quoted from CaptainNeo:Yup. Sometimes it's your only option.
For keeping brush strokes down, I use a very fine brush with very fine bristles, and keep feathering the paint over and over again so it smooths out.
If you are feathering out that much do you usually do multiple coats?
depends on the color it is. Yellows, gray, white, reds ...yes I do multiple. Fluorescents I usually have to do 5 or 6 coats.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Same. playfield different lighting.
See the grain?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - unfair to judge based on photos, my apologies. If I ever see one in person I'll make a judgement then.
Quoted from jwilson:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - unfair to judge based on photos, my apologies. If I ever see one in person I'll make a judgement then.
I appreciate that . I know in some paint shop pictures in particular that wood tone rework can look very bland and flat . It is just the lighting of a dingy messy paint room . You have to have somewhere to make a big mess doing this and that is it but it doesn't show as well in there.
That has a lot to do with why I try to catch these games and playfields in a variety of lighting during the process.
More touchups done, more evening out. More backlighting getting the black peek through. Trying to blend wood painting areas. Lots of little areas with hairline cracks in the black and various other areas. Finding them after scuffing is a very difficult job. Giving the saucer multi levels to make it look more like layers. Still working on blending the colors together better.
Time: 4 hr 20 min
fine tuning touchups 004 (resized).jpg
fine tuning touchups 001 (resized).jpg
fine tuning touchups 002 (resized).jpg
fine tuning touchups 003 (resized).jpg
Did some more saucer touchup with various other touchups here and there.
Time: 45 min
Clearcoat layer 4 Playfield is leveling out better and better with each layer, with block sanding between layers.
Time: 40 min
clear level 4 007 (resized).jpg
clear level 4 002 (resized).jpg
clear level 4 001 (resized).jpg
clear level 4 003 (resized).jpg
clear level 4 005 (resized).jpg
CaptainNeo... you're block sanding in between CC's.
Are you using a semi course (300-400 maybe) or light (600-800 maybe) grit? And are you wet sanding?
More touchups here and there. double up on layers of yellow and orange. Try to fix the off center inserts that are printed in the bat area. Normally I have room to work, but the way the black art blends into the lines. I don't have a lot of wiggle room to fix the offset circles. Did lessen the thickness of the rings slightly. fixed some of the blue and blended that better.
Sanding and prep with touchups after layer 4
Time: 1hr 15m
All the circle addressing and other touchups
Time: 4hr 10m
Layer 5 clearcoat
Time: 40m
clear layer 5 005 (resized).jpg
clear layer 5 003 (resized).jpg
clear layer 5 001 (resized).jpg
On a side note. I just wanted to show a game with massive deep ball swirls and what it takes to clean. I'm always working on around 5-7 fields at the same time. So this is another that is starting the process. Cleans up nice. Does it get it out 100% . No. It never will. But it's drastically reduced and passable. Only way to take it out 100% is to repaint it all. Which would require repainting the entire playfield. Which would cost like $3000 or more.
Total time to clean with Magic Eraser and rubbing alcohol.
Time: 6hr 10m
Before
before 004 (resized).jpgbefore 003 (resized).jpgbefore 002 (resized).jpgbefore 001 (resized).jpg
Half and half showing how much difference it makes.
half and half cleaning (resized).jpg
Here is the final look all cleaned and ready for the touchup process. So i'm over 6 hrs in, and havn't even got to touch a brush to it.cleaned with ME (1) (resized).jpgcleaned with ME (2) (resized).jpgcleaned with ME (3) (resized).jpgcleaned with ME (resized).jpg
Quoted from CaptainNeo:... So i'm over 6 hrs in, and havn't even got to touch a brush to it.
But what a huge difference already! The Half and half picture is impressive. 
oh yea, it makes a huge difference. I burned through about 6 magic eraser pads through the process. Go slow and work little sections at a time. But after you do this. Most of your lacquer is removed from the surface and if you don't clearcoat it or protect it. It's going to be more fragile than you were before. Only when you have to go this deep. This field had a ton of ball swirls. really down in there.
Köln
hello CaptainNeo - thanks for the very useful info and I'm encouraged that you use a brush for some of the paint application. Whenever I use a brush I can never seem to get the paint to lie as flat and even anywhere near as I can with airbrush. What's the trick - do I need to thin the paint alot or use certain kinds of paint to get an even film down or do certain types of brushes make this easier? Or certain brush movements?
I use very fine bristle brushes. the finer the bristles the smoother it lays, but takes a long time to paint areas. my favorites to paint with are 0, 00, 000, and 0000. 000 I paint 80% of the playfield with. Also the thickness of the paint has a lot to do with this. my paint is about as thick as yogurt. Like real yogurt, not that premixed crap. Then when brushing. I go the same direction, sweeping motion..over and over slightly moving and overlapping with each stroke. Keep feathering it out. When I reload the brush, I start back into a part I already did, and feather out from there. Keeps the brush strokes to a minimum.
1 week later
MOre block sanding. More detailed touchups here or there.
1hr 30 min
Layer 7 clear
40 m
This should be the final layer. It looks really nice. Now I let it sit for a couple of days, sand out the little specks of crap that gets in the clear, and buff it out.
layer 7 clear final 001 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 002 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 003 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 011 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 004 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 006 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 007 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 005 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 008 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 010 (resized).jpg
layer 7 clear final 009 (resized).jpg
I noticed in the pictures right now, that the wood parts I brushed really stand out from the flash. They do not look like that in person. But the flash does reflect thing differently than natural lighting. I"ll try and get some pics of how it looks in person, when I post the final pictures. Which won't look much different than these.
SO far we are at
36 Hours 15 min worth of time on this. My times might be off slightly, because there are times I forgot to write down my ending time on something, so I had to guess.
depending on the amount of detail needed, amount of color matching that needs to take place and all around work involved, which varies drastically from field to field. Level 3's can be from $900-1400 depending. Can be much less if it's a great starter. Level 2's are usually $300-400 less than level 3's.
might not be as detailed as I didn't take pics of every step. Actually seawitch just got it's first layer of clear. I'm usually working on 4-6 fields at the same time, so i can shuffle which ones are ready for the spray booth, and which ones have touchups drying, or resting after clear.
CaptainNeo This really is a tremendous thread. Thanks for unselfishly sharing your approach and expertise!
1 week later
So, total hourly time is 36 Hours 15 min of nonstop working on this field.
After subtracting expenses (clearcoat, freeze spray, ME, chemicals, sand paper ...ect.)
came out to about $12 per hour. Wayyyy better than it used to about 4 or 5 years ago, which was around $4 per hour.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:So, total hourly time is 36 Hours 15 min of nonstop working on this field.
After subtracting expenses (clearcoat, freeze spray, ME, chemicals, sand paper ...ect.)
came out to about $12 per hour. Wayyyy better than it used to about 4 or 5 years ago, which was around $4 per hour.
Truly a labor of more love than profit. I do appreciate you sharing your journey and talent with us! Thanks
Quoted from CaptainNeo:Level 3's can be from $900-1400 depending
Quoted from CaptainNeo:came out to about $12 per hour.
So, this was a level 3 right..
$12/hr * 36 = $432 labor
Level 3 = $900 - 432 labor = $468 material cost
Or
$1400 - 432 = $968 material cost
I think your math is off in the labor per hour, because materials don't cost that much.
Quoted from brenna98:So, this was a level 3 right..
$12/hr * 36 = $432 labor
Level 3 = $900 - 432 labor = $468 material cost
Or
$1400 - 432 = $968 material cost
I think your math is off in the labor per hour, because materials don't cost that much.
said they can be, not that they 100% are.
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