(Topic ID: 242433)

A Pecos Puzzler: Diagnosing EM Pin Problems

By Pecos

4 years ago


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#72 4 years ago

I'm working on a 1947 ESCO Coed and came across a real puzzle for you.

It's a bulb-scoring game with two steppers: a 1000-point stepper and a 10,000-point stepper (that also controls the 100,000-point lights). When I push in the coin chute to start a new game the 10,000-point stepper resets back to zero but the 1000 point score remains from the last game. It turns out that I'm missing a reset coil on the 1000-point stepper unit. Check it out:

20190519_153309_resized (resized).jpg20190519_153309_resized (resized).jpg

Here's where the mystery comes in.

1. There's no sign that there ever was a coil there - no bracket, no markings or residue.
2. There aren't any loose wires in the area like you'd expect to see when a coil is removed.
3. The schematic makes no mention of a 1000-point reset coil. I've checked it up and down 10 times.

Is it possible that the game is designed to spot the player X-thousand points at the start of a game as a holdover feature?

#74 4 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

It should automatically step that unit to the zero position on game start. No reset coil, just steps around until it hits zero.

Cool cool cool. Gotta keep working on the score motor then.

Next question: The coin mech is really sticky and looks like it might be gummed up with old oil. It moves and works, but it takes a lot of effort. Is there a de-greasing product and/or a better lubricant you'd recommend to loosen it up?

20190519_153347_resized (resized).jpg20190519_153347_resized (resized).jpg

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

I'm working on a 1947 ESCO Coed and came across a real puzzle for you.
It's a bulb-scoring game with two steppers: a 1000-point stepper and a 10,000-point stepper (that also controls the 100,000-point lights). When I push in the coin chute to start a new game the 10,000-point stepper resets back to zero but the 1000 point score remains from the last game. It turns out that I'm missing a reset coil on the 1000-point stepper unit. Check it out:
[quoted image]
Here's where the mystery comes in.
1. There's no sign that there ever was a coil there - no bracket, no markings or residue.
2. There aren't any loose wires in the area like you'd expect to see when a coil is removed.
3. The schematic makes no mention of a 1000-point reset coil. I've checked it up and down 10 times.
Is it possible that the game is designed to spot the player X-thousand points at the start of a game as a holdover feature?

I had some time to investigate (reminder: bulb scoring, 1000's step unit should advance to 0 at the start of the game but doesn't) and I have some questions about what I found:

1. The credit step unit advance coil doesn't have an EOS switch, so the coil stays in (and buzzes loudly) when I push in the coin unit (the schematic calls it "shuffle"). Is this supposed to happen?
2. When I shuffle, the score motor doesn't move. Should it?
3. Looking at the 1000's step unit, it doesn't seem to have a cam or switch or any way to stop the coil from firing once it reaches the 0 position.
4. The EOS switch on the 10,000 step unit has a loose wire but there's no indication of where it should connect. Could this be part of the issue?

Again, the 10,000 unit is working correctly. I guess what it boils down to is, how should the system work? What should be happening?

1 week later
#106 4 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

I had some time to investigate (reminder: bulb scoring, 1000's step unit should advance to 0 at the start of the game but doesn't) and I have some questions about what I found:
1. The credit step unit advance coil doesn't have an EOS switch, so the coil stays in (and buzzes loudly) when I push in the coin unit (the schematic calls it "shuffle"). Is this supposed to happen?
2. When I shuffle, the score motor doesn't move. Should it?
3. Looking at the 1000's step unit, it doesn't seem to have a cam or switch or any way to stop the coil from firing once it reaches the 0 position.
4. The EOS switch on the 10,000 step unit has a loose wire but there's no indication of where it should connect. Could this be part of the issue?
Again, the 10,000 unit is working correctly. I guess what it boils down to is, how should the system work? What should be happening?

Checking back in with some new info about my reset issues. I've been investigating my Reset relay and here's what I've found:

1. There are four switches in the reset relay and no coil - it's activated only by pushing in the coin chute (the schematic calls it "shuffle"). I've traced the first wire from the reset relay through the Jones plug and directly to the 10,000 Point Reset coil. It is linked directly to the credit unit (RP Reset), just as indicated in the schematic below. Neither unit has an EOS switch, so what's supposed to make the coils stop firing when I hold in the coin chute? Right now when I push in the coin chute and the 10,000 unit resets like it should and the credit unit advances one credit but the coils stay energized until I release.

COEDshuffle1 (resized).jpgCOEDshuffle1 (resized).jpg

2. On this same part of the schematic, you can see a Reset switch attached to the Meter relay (marked OWI - open when in). This is part of a make-or-break switch.

3. I've also traced one of the Reset relay wires to the 10-50 Reset relay. There's a game feature where the player can build up a score from 10 to 50K and then collect with certain targets. There's a stepper unit that controls this. If the Reset relay switch is activated while the variable score is set to 20K or higher, the 10-50 Reset relay counts back down to 10K. This feature uses the scoring motor and it works fine.

COEDshuffle3 (resized).jpgCOEDshuffle3 (resized).jpg

4. Finally, there's a switch on the Reset relay that's connected to the Lock Coil relay. This switch re-sets the lock coil after a tilt.

COEDshuffle2 (resized).jpgCOEDshuffle2 (resized).jpg

That's all the mentions I can find about the Reset relay and none of them connect directly to the 1000 Point unit. Here's what the schematic says about the 1000 Point relay:

COEDshuffle4 (resized).jpgCOEDshuffle4 (resized).jpg
COEDshuffle5 (resized).jpgCOEDshuffle5 (resized).jpg

The 1000 Point relay advances when any of the Advance, Reset or 5000 point bumpers are hit and when the 5000 point holes are triggered. These all work fine. I think the second part shows that the 1000's unit disables when the trip tilt is triggered, so a player can't keep scoring points as the ball rolls down the playfield after a tilt. None of these things are connected to the Reset relay, so how would the 1000's unit reset at the start of a game?

#108 4 years ago

This particular game makes it a bit confusing by using the same term for two different things.

There are four green "Advance" bumpers at the top of the playfield that increase the 10-50K value and three red "Reset" bumpers at the bottom that decrease the 10-50K value. The Reset Int relay only controls the Reset bumpers (it adds 1000 points and triggers the 10-50 reset coil, decreasing the value by 10K). There is no Reset relay in the backbox.

#110 4 years ago

Here's what we're dealing with inside the backbox and under the playfield. The schematic shows how the Reset Int relay works. Thanks for your help with this.

20190602_003350_resized (resized).jpg20190602_003350_resized (resized).jpg
20190602_003417_resized (resized).jpg20190602_003417_resized (resized).jpg
COEDshuffle7 (resized).jpgCOEDshuffle7 (resized).jpg

#112 4 years ago

PM Sent.

There are only three motor switches:

1. The one furthest back is the "pulse" switch, which is connected to the 5K, 5K Hole, 50K and 10-50K relays.
2. The middle one is only open on pulse 5, which I think stops the cycle.
3. The closest one only closes on pulse 4.

20190602_105144_resized (resized).jpg20190602_105144_resized (resized).jpg
20190602_105159_resized (resized).jpg20190602_105159_resized (resized).jpg

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